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Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider


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Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 12:34:57 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1548
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings,

I, along with I am sure quite a few others have wandered over to the Gorean portion of the forums of late and a couple of responses to other threads have made me curious and desiring to ask a question. I apologize in advance if this has been asked repeatedly and for any way in which I may not be following Gorean protocol in asking this question.

It has to do with identification and how each of the different types of statuses (sp?) are identfied. From what I have gleaned from reading the different threads, it seems, and please correct me if I am wrong, that someone is identified as a slave primarily because that woman (well typically women) has been enslaved by a man who identifies himself as a Gorean Free man.

But what makes someone a Free Man or a Free Woman? Just self identification as such? Or is there a level of behavior that is required to back up that claim of being Free or to negate the claim of being a Free Man or a Free Woman? Can someone else make the claim of Freedom for another?

For example, I have seen people who post frequently on the Gorean threads who state that they used to be held as a slave and are now Free Women. How is such a change in status made, by their own determination, or strictly on the determination of their former Masters?

I hope these questions do not offend.

Sincerely,
heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:06:45 PM   
Unbuilder


Posts: 131
Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

But what makes someone a Free Man or a Free Woman? Just self identification as such?
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Greetings,


Self declaration as such is probably the rule.  How well that goes over in Peoria... depends on the delivery.

be well
Unbuilder


_____________________________

In an endless universe, lie infinite opportunities, *anything is possible.
I am the man that I have chosen to become, for better or worse, the credit is mine, as well as the blame.
Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:12:36 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2104
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
I hope these questions do not offend.


Everyone is Free or slave by self-identification.

Your question probably only would offend those who deserve to be offended, often, and by someone who knows how.


(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:13:49 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1548
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for your response. It prompts an additional question, if I may. Can a person who is identified as slave, then make a self-determination that they are now Free, or does someone else, the Free, have to change that person's identification?

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Unbuilder)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:20:04 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

There are no secret hand shake and a initiation to be considered a Gorean. To be a Gorean one have to take inspiration for ones life from the philosophy presented in the Gor books. Now any can claim to be a Gorean, and one a free person can decide if they are Goreans, and other free pepole then have the right to decide if they will accept the person making the claim as their peer. But by all and end all, a person decides to be a Gorean, and that is that. However if a person do not behave in a way other Goreans find fitting, they might refuse to accept the claim that said person is a Gorean. And then it is again up to the induvidual to choose if others acnowledgement is important to them or not.

As for me, I was a slave and I am not a free woman. I was freed by my former Master, that gave me freedom, and then I myself decide if I want to be a Gorean, and I do. I also hope that my behavior make other Goreans accept me as their peer.

I wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:23:00 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1548
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you Nephandi very much for your reply. May I ask when you were a slave, would you have had the "right" to change your status to become Free? It is my understanding from what I have read in the forums, that a slave would not have that "right" and can only be freed by another.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:26:42 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Your question probably only would offend those who deserve to be offended, often, and by someone who knows how.



Sir, you are no gentleman.


_____________________________

you're just an empty cage, girl
if you kill the bird

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:42:58 PM   
Unbuilder


Posts: 131
Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		Greetings

I did say that it was mostly by "self declaration".  How well that plays in Peoria, depends on the delivery.

"Do not ask the trees or rocks how to live, for they have no voices.  Do not ask how to live, but instead,  proceed to do so." (paraphrased by Unbuilder from somewhere in the Gor series)

It prolly wouldn't hurt to do the reading for yourself.

Unbuilder


_____________________________

In an endless universe, lie infinite opportunities, *anything is possible.
I am the man that I have chosen to become, for better or worse, the credit is mine, as well as the blame.
Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 1:44:47 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

quote:

Thank you Nephandi very much for your reply. May I ask when you were a slave, would you have had the "right" to change your status to become Free? It is my understanding from what I have read in the forums, that a slave would not have that "right" and can only be freed by another.


Well Norway do not have legal slavery and I doubt Aswad would go to jail to keep be enslaved against my will, nor do I think he would want to see me unhappy. But if one is to follow Gorean traditions a slave beg to become free. And if I just freed myself without good reason like serious abuse or something like that then I doubt many Gorean would respect me afterwards.

I wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 2:37:00 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unbuilder

Greetings

I did say that it was mostly by "self declaration".  How well that plays in Peoria, depends on the delivery.

"Do not ask the trees or rocks how to live, for they have no voices.  Do not ask how to live, but instead,  proceed to do so." (paraphrased by Unbuilder from somewhere in the Gor series)

It prolly wouldn't hurt to do the reading for yourself.

Unbuilder



Hi Unbuilder,

Just FYI, it's Marauders.

Live well,

Tim


_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Unbuilder)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 2:46:18 PM   
Unbuilder


Posts: 131
Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		Dammit Tim,

all this volunteered information... and ain't nobody gonna do the reading for themselves.  They'll never establish any understanding of the context nor identify any of the questions that only they can answer for themselves...

I wish you well
Unbuilder


edited for typos...



< Message edited by Unbuilder -- 1/17/2010 2:47:56 PM >

_____________________________

In an endless universe, lie infinite opportunities, *anything is possible.
I am the man that I have chosen to become, for better or worse, the credit is mine, as well as the blame.
Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 2:55:24 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Welcome to my daily world, Unbuilder!

Live well,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Unbuilder)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 4:08:42 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1548
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your replies.

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 4:34:03 PM   
Unbuilder


Posts: 131
Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		Tal Tim,

I am unclear as to what "welcome to my daily world" means....  Kinda sounds like you spoon feed them what don't have any desire to learn to feed themselves...  If that is the case, then it must bite to be you......

"If memories are all I sing, I'd rather drive a truck"  Ricky Nelson

I wish you well
Unbuilder





_____________________________

In an endless universe, lie infinite opportunities, *anything is possible.
I am the man that I have chosen to become, for better or worse, the credit is mine, as well as the blame.
Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 4:49:18 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 508
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Everyone is Free or slave by self-identification.


Greetings Master,

This girl had a query about this if you or any others would care to comment. It was her understanding that whether a girl becomes a slave is made by the determination of the Man and that it is not by her own self determination but by the determination of others. Though, granted it is her behavior that helps to shape that determination. Would her response to a Man as a slave count as self-determined in that sense, or being an uncontrolled response of hers, is it by rather a lack of determination to be Free?

Well wishes,
anna

_____________________________

“I refuse to be the leader. I want a man ... always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot."~Anaiis Nin

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 5:19:39 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2104
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Anna-
You are asking a question on a different level than I was answering.

I was answering in the most literal sense of things. Everyone here decided on their own volition whether they feel more "slave" or "Free". We each then pursued and selected partners who matched our desires. No one was forced to be what they are, no one had to pass a test or show credentials to become Free or slave.

You are looking at it in more of a metaphysical way- that a women who feels deeply submissive becomes enslaved only as a result of actions by a Dominant Free man, not through her own declaration.

That is obviously something that can and has been debated on other threads, and honestly I am a bit agnostic on the subject. It inevitably leads down a rabbit hole of semantics and wordsmithing that isn't of much interest to me.

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 6:25:17 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

I might be mistaken as to what you are saying, and if so then I am apologizing, but it appear to me like you are saying that someone should read the books if they have any questions. If this is not what you are saying then again, I am sorry I misunderstood you.

I am against the read the books message which curious pepole often get from Goreans. I think it is unrealistic to expect everyone just a bit curious to invest in and read 27 books. It is like if someone is coming into a occult forum and ask a very basic question about Wicca, like for example what are a Coven, then it would be unrealistic for me to ask them to buy a few dozen books and read about it, but if they showed much interest in the topic and asked many more questions then I might direct them to a few good books. Generally, I do not think it is wrong to just provide a simple answer to a simple question when it comes to this lifestyle, as pepole have to start learning someplace and just being told to read the books generally becomes a brick wall which furthers ignorance instead of a willingness to learn.

I wish you well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Unbuilder)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 6:43:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unbuilder

Tal Tim,

I am unclear as to what "welcome to my daily world" means....  Kinda sounds like you spoon feed them what don't have any desire to learn to feed themselves...  If that is the case, then it must bite to be you......

"If memories are all I sing, I'd rather drive a truck"  Ricky Nelson

I wish you well
Unbuilder



No, just the opposite--but they are used to being spoon fed, and they don't like it when they're not. They call it "not caring."

Many, though, do warm to the challenge of an interesting and worthy goal, once they're shown the path and guided a bit.

That makes the other frustrations bearable in balance. But it never erases them. Some people want to be victims.

Live well,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to Unbuilder)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 6:47:50 PM   
jakeskajira


Posts: 87
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		I identify the way I do because my Master inspired me to kneel at his feet. he's the first and only man who's ever made me feel this way. I am not sure if another would be able to inspire that need in me to do so.... but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

I don't identify as being particularly submissive... even though I am owned property.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Indentification Question From A Curious Outsider - 1/17/2010 6:51:59 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1548
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Unbuilder

Tal Tim,

I am unclear as to what "welcome to my daily world" means....  Kinda sounds like you spoon feed them what don't have any desire to learn to feed themselves...  If that is the case, then it must bite to be you......

"If memories are all I sing, I'd rather drive a truck"  Ricky Nelson

I wish you well
Unbuilder



No, just the opposite--but they are used to being spoon fed, and they don't like it when they're not. They call it "not caring."

Many, though, do warm to the challenge of an interesting and worthy goal, once they're shown the path and guided a bit.

That makes the other frustrations bearable in balance. But it never erases them. Some people want to be victims.

Live well,

Tim


I apologize if my questions have given you the impression that I am looking to be spoon fed. That was not my intention, I had looked at some of the Gorean FAQ, but hadn't seen exactly what I was curious about. Forgive me for the intrusion into your corner of the forums.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 20
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