Gorean inheritance and materialism

Gorean inheritance and materialism (Full Version)

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Nephilim -> Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/18/2010 8:31:53 PM)
In the books, Goreans aren't highly materialistic. In the chambers of Tarl's father, and many others described, there is sparse decoration. Also they are highly merit based. In the beginning of the series Tarl has to be accepted by the council, he isn't simply accepted by default. There are a few instances where young boys have either become masters of their family homestead or would in the future. It is also made clear that if a boy/man inherits and cannot protect what he owns, he may quickly lose it. They do have strong feelings for tradition and stories/songs. Also the use of a literal homestone makes me wonder if Goreans would support other sentimental materialistic items/heirlooms. I am reminded of the ring being the first thing given to Tarl before his trip, this seems to indicate that it had some sentimental value since it would seem strange for a warrior to value it much as a simple adornment. Other items I would guess would value are things like family scrolls containing traditions like cooking and similar things (especially important if the adults became unavailable to teach children just on the cusp of defending the home). What types of items fall on this list for you? Also, if materialism is not generally positive and merit based award is, is there virtue in leaving material possessions to children?

Cherylmazana -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/19/2010 2:53:13 AM)
Lack of materialism would be a natural consequence of living hundreds of years, what’s the point of hording things when styles change and also lack of room for storage gets in the way. Over centuries I would imagine that the best tools of your trade that you can get would be important, and also quality that lasts would also be valued, all the rest would be worthless. I have regular clear outs of clothes and possessions I no longer need and as the years have passed I have slowly upgraded everything I own, each time buying better and better as the old things get worn or stop working if I magnified this by many times my lifetime my spending habits would change dramatically. Of course not everyone would do this, some would always horde, but things that last, look beautiful and are well made would be valued more than lots of cheap rubbish when you think in hundreds of years and time to own what you need slowly. Cheryl

jakeskajira -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/19/2010 6:48:02 AM)
I horde books. I horde things that will last and that I find value in, even if the worth isn't noticeable to others. clothes, jewelry, most other types of materialistic things, i don't really care about and neither does my Owner. the things that we find value in, are our animals, our family, our friends, etc. things that aren't easily replaced and that have a value that you really can't put a dollar sign on. i tend to see clothes and most materialistic possessions as replaceable and not high in value. I don't buy expensive clothes because I am still changing, and intend to have more children, so my figure and body type most likely won't be exactly the same after a second child. I don't want to get particularly attached to clothes that won't ever fit me again. (however, I had a pair of pants that I wore from 12-23 and finally just talked myself into getting rid of them due to the crotch of the jeans starting to wear out.) I hate spending money, so I tend to wear my clothes to the point where they fall apart unless Master makes me buy new stuff.

Dinnardin -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/19/2010 5:07:59 PM)
It is my dream in life to one day be able to afford to be materialistic. John, AKA Dinnardin

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/19/2010 6:10:21 PM)
~FR~ I at one time in my life had many material things. I had each room as a different theme, egyptian, roman, victorian, etc. My bedroom was done in Phantom of the Opera style. I drove an Audi TT, and had cash in my pocket all the time. It was one of the most miserable times in my life, and my stuff began to own me. I voluntarily changed jobs and took a 60% pay cut, got rid of the female in my life, got a small apartment that had a fouton from Wal-Mart, folded boxes draped with fabric as tables, things bought from good will, no cable TV, a couple of side chairs that I repaired, and a mattress on the floor in the bedroom. It was one of the happiest times in my life. I have lived with very spartan furnishings for a long time, and I do not see myself changing that very much. I would rather the money go to making the property I live on more beautiful, to music that I can enjoy over and over, to books that I enjoy reading or gaining knowledge from, and to making my household more financially secure and pleasant. If I were to suddenly not have the responsibilities of a household, I believe I could live in a cabin in very rudimentary conditions as long as I had the people and things (music, books, etc.) in my life. I believe two of the greatest dangers to us as humans is greed and gluttony, and materialism just feeds that. I will give my kids my things slowly, over time, before I die, or put it in the Living Trust I set up last year. Live well, Orion

AnimusRex -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/30/2010 8:21:33 PM)
Orion- Very well said. Often the term "sovereignty" is discussed only in terms of one having power and control over one's environment or self. But I have learned there is another side of this; that is, of sovereignty being the freedom to pursue fulfillment on ones own terms. We live in a consumer culture, a world that puts forward the notion that the more things you own and consume, the happier you will be. Many others have noted that this tends to enslave us, putting us on a never-ending treadmill of working to acquire things, endlessly, more, and more, and more. There is a sovereignty of simply saying "enough". Of simply declaring an independence from the endless need and hunger of wanting more and better things, or pursuing one's happiness by finding contentment with what we have. I am thinking of the thoughts of Thoreau in Walden, where he found joy and fulfillment in the simple one room hut he built for himself, or of the writings of St. Francis and other ascetics celebrating simplicity. Like you, I have had things, and been without things, and I noticed the truth in the saying "A man's wealth is measured by what he can live without". Being able to find peace and fulfillment without needing to crawl on bended knee to Citibank and beg for a few dollars more, or to furiously run ever faster on that treadmill of acquisition so as to impress people we hate is a declaration of independence, of declaring oneself free and sovereign to put value only on what we ourselves choose to.

oakwood909 -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/31/2010 10:41:21 AM)
All of the comments are very good. I would like to build on them, there are characters in the books that live opulently. Although they may have material goods the Goreans seem to have keep sakes for the memory. Tarl's father asked for a handful of soil from earth. Tarl took a sapphire as a memento from the war in Travaltese Land and always kept his original sword next to his captains sword but he wore his captains sword and lived quite well in his keep. When he later became an admiral he dressed as an admiral. Even though people had wealth I believe the point is that ,like Orion the Wolf said, we control our wealth and it does not control us. A Gorean house even the wealthy ones are simple to maintain and easy to live in. A Gorean has no problem sacrificing his material goods for something he believes in so wealth although good is lower in value than honor and righteousness.When a man is caring his home stone he is not to be menaced. It shows the value of a rock that has no monetary value per say but great value in other ways. I myself have a nice house and a decent job and used to chase the image of wealth and became a servant to maintaining the material goods we and amassed. I started to purge and simplify and my wife left because her self value was linked to having many things and it was easy for her because she did not pay for them or maintain them. After six years of trying to make it work for the both of us she left. The same house took a full weekend just to mow the yard and maintain the landscape now only takes a couple of hours and looks better than before. The interior is the same I purged many things and kept the nicest things and the items that have sentimental value. I can clean the whole house in a hour or so and is a work in progress but will improve over time. Another interesting item is that when I was married we filled three ninety gallon barrels a week in trash and often needed more room. I separated the recycled items and it included on green barrel but now I could put the barrels out once a month and still have plenty of room left over. We all appear to be saying the same thing from our own perspective and it is this sharing that I appreciate about this community, Thank you. A final word, in the bible there is a verse. A man who can carry all his possessions on one shoulder is truly free. Be well

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Gorean inheritance and materialism (1/31/2010 10:53:39 AM)
~FR~ In reflecting more on this topic, and my own personal experience, I would say that at a certain point a person's possessions begin to own them. If your actions are dictated by material things, then they are what is in control. I do not mean the necessities, but all the extra garbage that is not needed. "Man decreases those who need more than they have, and increases those who have more than they need." Lao Tzu Live well, Orion

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