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Love slaves - 2/1/2010 5:17:49 PM

jakeskajira

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How many of you have love slaves, or seek out companions for love?

Do you find that your emotions and love hinder your ability to be firm and own them or guide them, or do you find that love enables you to put more effort into it because you have more emotionally invested in the situation?

And, what does love "mean" to you?

< Message edited by jakeskajira -- 2/1/2010 5:23:12 PM >

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RE: Love slaves - 2/1/2010 9:00:01 PM

Nephilim

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I think that in the books, many(most) of the Master's love their slaves they just wouldn't say something like that to the slaves because it gave them power. A Gorean slave (in the books) would manipulate, control, and eat an earth man alive for his admitting to loving the slaves and general weakness and not having them just as they would like. Not that the books tell us how we should feel about others, only I think that they back up the idea that love doesn't have to be weak, one can have feelings without giving up control. If one can't, then they will never make someone who needs to be controlled (a slave) happy. This is why when, in the books, a man becomes weak and cannot treat a slave as a slave because of feelings, they sell them off or free them. If they are a "true" slave, it is better to stay strong and sell them than have a slave pretend to be free and end up hating the weak man that couldn't keep them slave.

Also, there are many types of love. Many men love their pet or work animal, but in men, it is not necessary to be fawning or show sloppy affection. A treat for the animal or the pat on the side is all that is needed for the animal to know it is appreciated. In having less outward motions of affection people become closer and remove the potential for false grandiose displays. It is harder to fake true affection if one doesn't employ open gestures and constant words of reinforcement. One can easily say the words and go through the motions, but if affection and bonding is true, it can be shared in a look or a small touch.

In a non-Disney type of love, how can a man not love his slave, or his work dog. Many Gorean's in the stories even have respect and a type of love for the trees and appreciation for the breeze and the sky. It would seem that love comes easy to Goreans, just not a weak fawning type of love for a woman.

Our society has conditioned women to expect the grand gestures and constant reassurace. They have been raised on a Disney concept of love being a magic bond between two people and the idea of "happily ever after". This is engrained deeply and is very difficult to change. This does make training more difficult because in our society there is no failure, there is no starvation, so natural motivations are removed and instead these false fantasies are what are expected. One cannot be too hard on free women if they expect to keep them, so things must move very slowly. Commitment beyond chemical attraction and bonding is completely absent from our society, so it is a constant battle to use the womans emotions to keep them on the path you direct them to. Unfortunately, in my experience, for most women this is a chemical dependancy cycle and leads to serial relationships.

I think this topic is so broad that many books have been written on it and will continue until long after we are all gone and whatever comes after will speculate on what love was and what it meant to us.

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RE: Love slaves - 2/2/2010 1:23:51 PM

Qorvas

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Good question....and well said in the reply there, Nephilim.

As for me, I have never owned a slave. My girlfriend, who is very Gorean in her outlook likes to 'play' with bondage and things like that and is not adverse to us one day owning a slave, but we also believe that slave-ownership is not essential to being Gorean. As to the love factor, well, as Nephilim mentioned, in a Gorean context love would very likely be extant between masters and their slaves, but it would be important to curb the expression of such on the master's part to retain control.

Be well

Qorvas

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RE: Love slaves - 2/2/2010 7:35:54 PM

AnimusRex

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Most Masters that I have met seem to genuinely love their slaves; I dearly love and adore Kim, and don't find any problem with running my home as I see fit.

But see thats where we are a bit different- I don't need to be a ruthless dictator, and "punish" her, bark at her, "force" her to do anything. I get what I want, when I want it, how I want it, not because of some terrible infliction of pain and suffering or mental manipulation, but because she loves serving and doing things for me.

Other people's dynamics differ. I think many people enjoy the power play, the struggle of wills, of being overthrown and conquered, day in and day out. Not my thing, but I know that some people really get off on it.

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RE: Love slaves - 2/2/2010 8:35:04 PM

AnnaOfAramis

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Greetings emma,

As I recall in Kajira, at the end Drusus loved tiffany/sheila/lita and he felt a fool and had to re-enact things sort of from the beginning and re-establish his authority- more for himself than for her because she felt enslaved by him, but he had to confirm his mastery. I think that the thing is that while a man may love a slave, he has to master her first and love her second so to speak - not speaking chronologically but rather in order of importance. If he were to let his love weaken his hold on her then she would start to run the show. And ultimately, no slave would stay with a master like that because, well, slaves need that. And as Master Animus points out, while sometimes a more physical demonstration is in order (like with Drusus), sometimes quietly authoritative is enough too. Either way, I think the books point out in several instances that a love slave has to be kept in a strong mastery.

Well wishes,
anna

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RE: Love slaves - 4/2/2010 12:07:39 PM

akirauke

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You're only a love slave if you NEED to be loved and WANT to be loved.

I guess I'm a love slave

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RE: Love slaves - 4/4/2010 7:57:09 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

quote:

You're only a love slave if you NEED to be loved and WANT to be loved.

I guess I'm a love slave

Actually in the Gorean lifestyle you are a love slave if you Master loves you and want to admit that love, if he want to love you. If the slave want love that do not really matter. The Master determines if the slave is a love slave or not.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

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RE: Love slaves - 4/4/2010 8:42:09 AM

barelynangel

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Nephandi that is simply not true well maybe it should be said not accurate. The concept of Love slave has nothing to do with a Man saying he loves her. Many men loved slaves but that didn't make slaves love slaves. It has to do with with his mastery of her, that his mastery is simply all inclusive, he does what he does with her because he knows all of her not because he is attempting to prove something to her or others. Its a natural existance, the bondage is more simply because he is absolutely certain of every part of her.

Many people always presume that the love in love slave is the love many people know in terms of romantic love. AS in he speaks prose of his love for his slave. However its not. You can have a Man never express his love at all and yet his slave is a love slave simply because his mastery is absolute in terms of her and every part of her.

Most people never reach this concept, the reason love slave is thrown about so much is because its the romance people are seeking that they place the romantic love we know and grew up with on most cases into the word love in love slave.

Goreans from what i read in the books, did not have the same concept of love we do. Therefore to apply our definition of love would be inappropriate.

The problem i see with many is they take all the cool little quotes that sound neat and keep them separate and distinct instead of looking at it all as a whole to help define different aspects of what occured and was known in the novels. This to me is what hinders many people from rising above the very narrow definitions of the little quotes to see the bigger picture.

There were VERY FEW i would say the most minimalistic amount of love slaves in the very few slaves there were all together. And to me that is because the romantic love was not what it was about -- it took a lot of effort and a lot of knowledge and value for a Man to put that much work into recognizing for himself a love slave. If you remember, its a known fact that women who are slaves are easy to love, its a concept many Men enjoy, however, not all women who are slaves and loved by Men in the books are love slaves and not all Men who are loved are love Masters. SO you need to take it a step far beyond what is understood and see it as almost an absolute concept that is all inclusive.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 4/4/2010 9:02:21 AM >

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RE: Love slaves - 4/5/2010 1:41:15 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

Did I say it was about the man saying he loves his slave? However being a love slave is about the man actually loving her. And if you are to go by the books then no being a love slave was not about a man's mastery of a girl, it was about plain and simply that he loved her and did not deny that to himself. As a result he usually kept the slave under even sterner control than before. Now off course since this is real life and not the books one can take a word and have it mean about anything however if one go by the book definitions of a love slave what you say is not correct.

Actually yes a love slave is someone that is loved by her Master in a romantic sense. However I never said he had to express it. One do not need to express romantic love for it to be there. Many men in the books had other kinds of love and/or appreciation for their slaves, however to fall for a slave and love her romantically was something undesired, but it did happen and those where the love slaves.

quote:

Goreans from what i read in the books, did not have the same concept of love we do. Therefore to apply our definition of love would be inappropriate.

Romantic love is a function of the brain, it can be explained quite scientifically, so unless the book Goreans have another brain structure than we do then yes they had the same concept. However that concept is not in the book elevated and dallies around and down right worshiped as it is on Earth. So it do have another place in their society, however it is there.

quote:

The problem i see with many is they take all the cool little quotes that sound neat and keep them separate and distinct instead of looking at it all as a whole to help define different aspects of what occured and was known in the novels. This to me is what hinders many people from rising above the very narrow definitions of the little quotes to see the bigger picture.

The problem Angel is that you do exactly the same. You have one idea of what you want to read into the books and that is the only thing you see, and if others do not see the same they have to be wrong. However try to read the books sometimes and not just ignore everything which do not fit your option on how things should be. And incidentally try to do the same with forum posts and perhaps you got what pepole where trying to say instead of what you believe they say, just a suggestion.

quote:

There were VERY FEW i would say the most minimalistic amount of love slaves in the very few slaves there were all together. And to me that is because the romantic love was not what it was about

Yes there where very, very very love slaves because love was not what slavery was about, and in fact instead of like in the real world where love is admired and desired to love a slave in the Gor books was not wanted, in fact it is looked at as quite negative however it did happen and when it did that was a love slave. I think what you do not get about my post is that I am not saying Gorean slavery is about love, nor am I saying that romantic love for a slave is in any way desirable. What however I am saying is that it happens, and when it happens that is a love slave.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

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RE: Love slaves - 4/5/2010 2:25:04 AM

estah

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Greetings,

Why do you try to seperate the two?
A love slave is a slave who is loved by her owner and as a result he keeps her in a deeper mastery. A love slave is one who is so deeply mastered that there is no doubt she belongs to him. A love slave is a slave who is loved by her master and because of the love he keeps her on a shorter leash and under a more firm hand. But then that is my opinion on it. I also do not think anyone who has not been a love slave can truly say what a love slave is, like all things that we do not know from personal experience, we can only speculate on.

Mistress Nephandi, you say it was seen as a negative thing to love a slave, could you please provide quotes to support that? I have looked and I have by now not found any.

verity

< Message edited by estah -- 4/5/2010 2:27:01 AM >

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RE: Love slaves - 4/5/2010 4:43:19 AM

barelynangel

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Nephandi, the word admit means or implies someone SAYS it. I am going by the books and love slave was not a concept of a Man admitting his love for the girl. It was about his mastery over her.

It is said in the books Men easily can love a slave. It does not say in the books that loving a slave makes her a love slave.

I think you see the concept of love and believe it identifies love slave. The mastery of a love slave is deeper because its a natural concept for a Man who absolutely owns the woman.

Your meaning in your post is clear and its inaccurate Just because a Man may love his slave doesn't mean she is his love slave and he her love master. There are concepts that involve more than a person's random belief of what love its. And yes, it does involve the mastery of her. This is why it wasn't a common concept. If you read about the love slave concept its about absolute owning, which means it went beyond that of the legalities. Its a combination of connection that happens beyond the love and exists because of the mastery and her natural ability to be deeply and fully mastered BY HIM, that particular man.

It was not a romantic love it was a natural love born due to the two people and the natural existance and depth they were able to achieve, him in the mastery her in the response to same. It connected them in the most natural sense.

You can agree or not, i am saying your assessment is inaccurate. There were many times loving a slave was mentioned but it did not indicate that this concept created a love master and love slave combination. There's a reason for that and its not because love slave was an admission of sorts.

I also believe that there are some who may be love slave and love master and never realize it because they aren't focused on the concept of "love."

And Nephandi, i use to believe it was an admission concept by the Man, i use to believe he kept her in deeper mastery to prove his love wasn't hindering his mastery over her. However, the more i read about it, it just didn't mesh. As men easily love slaves, howevr, itdoesn't make it a love master and love slave concept and those do in fact go together. A Gorean Man would not have to prove his mastery over a woman he deeply mastered because of romantic love -- he would naturally master her deeply due to his knowing her and fully knowing her.

angel

Nephandi, i am a firm believer that people should be able to respond to a post as a whole, i don't and won't continue to read your replies if you continue to break them into sections as if the post i wrote isn't a concept of being a whole response. To me, that gets ridiculous on these boards. So if you want me to continue to respond, do not break apart posts into quotes to respond. The choice is yours.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 4/5/2010 5:14:53 AM >

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RE: Love slaves - 4/6/2010 11:56:49 AM

Hiskajirah

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Greetings Master

My Master's ways are seemingly close to your own. Your second paragraph spoke volumes.

Thank you

Warmest wishes to you and yours,
~twinkle

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Most Masters that I have met seem to genuinely love their slaves; I dearly love and adore Kim, and don't find any problem with running my home as I see fit.

But see thats where we are a bit different- I don't need to be a ruthless dictator, and "punish" her, bark at her, "force" her to do anything. I get what I want, when I want it, how I want it, not because of some terrible infliction of pain and suffering or mental manipulation, but because she loves serving and doing things for me.

Other people's dynamics differ. I think many people enjoy the power play, the struggle of wills, of being overthrown and conquered, day in and day out. Not my thing, but I know that some people really get off on it.

_____________________________

"Do not try to force me to be what you want me to be! Accept me for what I want to be,&am!—one who knows she belongs at the feet of men!&desires to be at the feet of men!-their slave!!—their loving slave!” Witness
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