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Home Stone and city - 2/9/2010 11:20:17 PM   
Elisabella


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The other thread got me thinking of this.

Who would you say you share a Home Stone with? People in your town? Your city? Your country? Gorean friends who you share values with even if you aren't living on the same patch of land?

Or do you not consider those forms of community analogous to the community found in a shared Home Stone?

Thank you all for your replies,

Bella

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if you kill the bird
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 3:14:46 AM   
Cherylmazana


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A Home Stone is more than just your city or your country though I am proud of both, and have used the term loosely in a Gorean sense to describe a pale imitation of what Goreans in the books considered a Home Stone. As I believe that we have lost what once were real communities that lived and breathed the ideals of Gorean Home Stones even though they wouldn’t have thought of it that way. Technically I have no Home Stone.

If you have not pledged to die to protect your country then it cannot be your Home Stone though anyone who has could describe their county as their Home Stone, I believe the pledge of allegiance could loosely be described as such. And if it is your sworn oath to defend all those who live within its borders I cannot believe that it would be much different to a Goreans oath to their city, it is the knowledge and the trueness of the oath that makes it real rather than the “I pledge blah blah” unthinking mumbled route that many do without even thinking about what they are saying, the intent makes the difference.

Most Goreans however tend to have personal Home Stones, or small community Home Stones that give those who have pledged together a community of kindred spirits. I often wonder though what happens when they decide that they no longer believe in what the others now believe in, do they remain forever without a Home Stone or do they change them as simply as you would change trains. And that is why I have never joined a Home Stone as I will not give oaths I may later be forced to break.

Cheryl

(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 5:51:10 AM   
sunshinemiss


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Elisabella,

Your question is a good one. It brought up this one for me that I'd like to direct specifically to you or others like you. That is, people who are one nationality living in another nation. Have you found that being "other" in a different place has made you MORE UScitizen or less?

It's come up a number of times in my circles where we realize how very US-identified (or Canada or British or Australian, etc. For the purpose of this post and clarity, I will say "US" )we are when we leave the US. For example, I would not go to a country that did not have a US embassy. I would not go some place where my US citizenship would put me in danger. And the one time I was in danger abroad, I remember the flash of of fear when I realized..."my being a US citizen here hinders the situation much more than it helps."

*Just a curious aside based on your own question.

Best,
sunshine

_____________________________

¿me preguntas por que compro arroz y flores? compro arroz para vivir y flores para tener algo por lo que vivir.
~Confucio
the most amazing wonderful glorious food I have - is anything as long as I'm with a friend.
~me

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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 5:57:34 AM   
Musicmystery


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Doesn't this sound like some Jefferson Airplane song, or some Oz-like movie....or maybe Ted Nugent to the tune of Cat Scratch Fever:

Home Stone City

"We built this City on Rock and Gor"

We're off to see the Ubar....






< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/10/2010 6:19:46 AM >


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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 7:07:39 AM   
estah


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Greetings sunshinemiss,

verity has been working on becoming a German citzien for several years, when it came down to making the final step, verity found she could not swear loyalty to a country where the people do not respect their flag and their national anthem, and where soldiers who are fighting for their freedoms are insulted and put down. The oldest child of verity wishes to be a soldier when he is older and his teachers are trying to talk him out of it. Saying that it is not an honourable thing to do and such things. verity will remain Australian for the near future, there we know how to respect those who died for us. verity knows Germany has a darker history and this has had a direct impact of both sides of verity's family, this does not make up however for the lack of respect and honour this country shows in somethings.

verity


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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 7:30:49 AM   
sunshinemiss


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I guess, verity, that means you're not jumping right into the Germany Home Stone, eh?

*edited to add: Yes, I know the s-types don't swear allegiance and such to the Home Stone.

Trying to combine two different things can be something of a challenge.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 2/10/2010 7:35:36 AM >


_____________________________

¿me preguntas por que compro arroz y flores? compro arroz para vivir y flores para tener algo por lo que vivir.
~Confucio
the most amazing wonderful glorious food I have - is anything as long as I'm with a friend.
~me

(in reply to estah)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 7:33:26 AM   
estah


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Greetings sunshinemiss,

verity would not betray Germany and would fight for the defense of this country, but she will never become German...not as long as her heart lays to strongly with Australia.


_____________________________

It all comes down to choice...we chose how we see things...we chose what we say...what we do...we chose who we are.

Better a cold truth then a warm lie

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/10/2010 3:25:15 PM   
Qorvas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

The other thread got me thinking of this.

Who would you say you share a Home Stone with? People in your town? Your city? Your country? Gorean friends who you share values with even if you aren't living on the same patch of land?

Or do you not consider those forms of community analogous to the community found in a shared Home Stone?

Thank you all for your replies,

Bella


Greetings, Bella.

In my tradition the Home Stone is sacred. It is shared with my immediate family and with sword brothers and a smaller community; mostly those of Warrior Caste. We have no city as yet to call our own in the Gorean sense. To us, the sharing of the Home Stone is a privilege, not a right. We also do not consider the flag the country we live in (in our case, Canada) to be analogous to a Home Stone.

I wish you well


Qorvas

(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/14/2010 1:25:04 AM   
Silentrunner26


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I have hunted fought and drank with good people who shared only the same tread we all do Humanity . I once shared a Home stone with a wife and kids . I fought to protect it and in the end was forced to leave it behind . I have shared the blood of a hunt with good people I have defened my home . I have lived with others and alone for 12 yrs now . With out a Home stone there is no place to call home . If you have no place that you know in your mind and heart you will die fighting to protect and kill others to defend you do not know what a Home stone is .

(in reply to Qorvas)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/15/2010 2:30:22 PM   
Qorvas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silentrunner26

I have hunted fought and drank with good people who shared only the same tread we all do Humanity . I once shared a Home stone with a wife and kids . I fought to protect it and in the end was forced to leave it behind . I have shared the blood of a hunt with good people I have defened my home . I have lived with others and alone for 12 yrs now . With out a Home stone there is no place to call home . If you have no place that you know in your mind and heart you will die fighting to protect and kill others to defend you do not know what a Home stone is .


Silentrunner, I hear your words.

I am saddened to hear that you have lost your Home Stone.
For a Gorean, to wander without a Home Stone is no easy thing.

I know well what you say about the Home Stone: It is that special place in one's heart in which a centered-ness can be found. My own Home Stone is of granite and is not much bigger than a man's fist, yet to those of us who honor and defend it, it is as a mountain.

I wish you well

Qorvas

(in reply to Silentrunner26)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/15/2010 3:14:22 PM   
Saffleur


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Tal Bella,

I do not think or feel that we can use the term Home Stone when speaking broadly about a country as a whole, or even a city. The reason being is because I know what Home Stone means. It is even plausible that others near me do as well. The meaning becomes diluted with such a large amount of unknowing people.

Do not misunderstand what I am saying, I appreciate the men and women who enter the military branches that support the country I live in. I show that by ribbon, charitable donation and by donating hundreds of used cellular devices for calling cards. I am thankful they protect our borders but Home Stone is something altogether different.

I have no Home Stone yet, but I will very soon. I am purchasing land and a home. There I plan to find such a stone and too I will chisel a date into it. The Home Stone is something private and intimate but shared amongst those so close and near that understands it's meaning.

I enjoy the communities that I live in from my street to city to county to timezone to country, but they do not share my Home Stone.

I wish you well,
Scott

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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/16/2010 9:54:11 PM   
CelticNightmare


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Land is the only real wealth-our sustenance. Land is place.

A stone is the most solid part of the earth-that which does not burn,or wash away in the torrents.

It's something worthy to defend and hold to. The people surrounding it-not always so much so.

(in reply to Saffleur)
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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/16/2010 11:19:01 PM   
starshineowned


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Greetings..

Just within the last few replies I am left with a couple of somewhat different views of Home Stone. In one sense a inner feeling that is moveable and applicable to any place a Man hangs his hat and calls his at any given time, and a inner feeling of it belonging to a more set secured place..that if that place were lost somehow..the Man would then be without a Home Stone. Is it one or the other or encompassing both simply depending on the Man and his willingness to defend it?

starshine


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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/16/2010 11:24:18 PM   
CelticNightmare


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It can be either. Ideally,you can have your own "Castle"...... If not, you make do.

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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/17/2010 1:15:45 AM   
Silentrunner26


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The last 2 days have been air to a drowning man . So long I have listened to people who are to busy working and not enjoying life to understand what life means anymore . Thank you all for bringing me back up and out of what we call the rat race . I can say now part of me will be here and enjoying the talk and common sence of people who understand that it takes more than a rifle and a uniform to be a true warrior .

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RE: Home Stone and city - 2/17/2010 1:36:20 AM   
Camerius


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quote:

that if that place were lost somehow..the Man would then be without a Home Stone.


If you read Outlaw of Gor you will know that Tarl returns to Ko-ro-ba only to find out that his city has been destroyed by Priest Kings. Its people and stones have been shattered to the corner of the world. And yet, the inhabitants of Ko-ro-ba are not without a Home Stone, because it still exists. It haven't been destroyed as the the city has and in that way it still lives.

A place is not a Home Stone. No house, no family, no web page, no chat channel, no country, no city nor any other place is a Home Stone. What IS a Home Stone is a physical piece of rock that unites, symbolizes and materializes the spirit and bond of community between the people of where it is at its center.

As long as that piece of rock is undamaged and within the possession of its community, as long it will keep that community alive, united, sovereign and free.



I wish you well,

  Camerius




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RE: Home Stone and city - 3/1/2010 4:58:50 PM   
Aswad


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Who would you say is a Jew? Persian? Anatolian? American?

The Egyptians understood that to be lost to memory was to be truly dead to the world, that so long as the essence of a thing persists, its corporeal form is a focal point, a vessel that enhances its influence in the world of the living. Accordingly, the dollar is housed in paper and metal, the Jews had the Ark, and various tribes around the world have had the equivalent of totems. Most of the West uses symbols (e.g. flags), craft names (i.e. titles) and incantations (e.g. terrorism). The notion of city home stones is little different: it gives form to an idea that gathers people, binds them together, and sets them apart. Aššur would make for a nice comparison.

I'm a simple man, too simple to sort out the complex and shifting allegiances, values and ideas that appear to make up the relation my neighbours have to their perception of the community where I live. I am content to note that our temples (i.e. city hall, etc.) are not as elaborate, as well kept, or as cared for as were the temples of older civilizations. The word used these day, "public building," somehow manages to connote a part of what our modern temples lack. But temples aren't a people. Even for those who settle in a place. It merely serves as one of many outward signs of what the community is like. As does the small, but growing, number of people who are rediscovering what it means to be someone. Someone with a stake in the community, who is part of something. One day, I may choose to be part of that community, when it has proven itself.

But in what way do I define and view it? I was born in this place. My mother's ashes rest here. This place marks my accent and mannerisms. It is subtly different from the other places I've been, even those that are close by. Nothing I could put my finger on. But sometimes, when I see the sun framed by familiar mountains, or smell the lightning on the wind, it's perfectly clear: this is home. The people change. The face of the town changes. Even a lot of the culture changes, given enough time. But the land is the same. My home. It's a part of me, and I will always carry a part of it within me, whether I carry one with me or not.

Oh, and, there's a rock. Maybe it's just a rock. Or maybe it's a piece of this land.

The town doesn't have a rock. Yet. It is a rock, though.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Home Stone and city - 3/1/2010 5:17:38 PM   
Nephilim


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Isn't the title "Outlaw of Gor" titled that way because since Koroba is destroyed, Tarl is without a home stone or city and is now an outlaw?  Of course, the city is later rebuilt, but I think the Priest Kings get the final say on who has a home stone and city or not.  So, to outsiders, people who used to be of Koroba were without a home stone.  Also, it seems, the concept of a home stone, is the literal stone, the people, and the city.  Perhaps metaphorically it can't be taken, just as if the US fell, people would still see its flag as their own for long after, but literally it would no longer exist.  Wandering Koroban people may still have felt Koroba was their city, but literally, not so.

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RE: Home Stone and city - 3/4/2010 2:02:09 PM   
Aswad


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The PKs can have the last decree. The last say is something they'll only ever have with their worshipper-slaves (i.e. average citizens). They do select heavily for the latter, though.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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