RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean?

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RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean?

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean?

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RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/14/2010 1:47:44 PM

kisshou

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Greetings Master domiguy,

one thing I have observed of how Goreans take their philosophical belief and put it into practice on modern day earth is is accountability.

When a Gorean person screws up they will say "I screwed up" and deal with the fallout.

I don't see that amongst modern day politicians, preists, lawyers and teachers.

I think Goreans have an inner compass that guides them , that is why they always sound so uncompromising.

From what I have read over the years it wasn't like they read the books and let the books guide them but they already had all these beliefs(philosophies) that were outlined in the books. So when they read them there was some kind of AHAA moment!

I hope this was straightforward and made sense
well wishes
kisshou

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 41

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/14/2010 5:42:23 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 16268
Joined: 11/26/2007
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.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 2/14/2010 5:46:18 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/14/2010 11:13:18 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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Tal baby,

I appreciate the above posts. Thank you for your well thought out responses.

I guess the thing that probably confuses and disenfranchises the majority of folks is the whole sci-fi elements that are somewhat incorporated into Gorean beliefs.

I am going to cross post here because there are two threads going on that are slightly related.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trevelyan

What are these values and beliefs? I think these are some of the key ones:
1. A Gorean is sovereign in his territory.
2. A Gorean identifies with, loves and is allegiant to his community.
3. A Gorean identifies with and is proud of what he does for a living, and does it excellently and ethically.
4. A Gorean embraces the Gorean Morality, as outlined in Chapter One of Marauders. Here are its key tenets:
4-a. The Gorean morality is one of inequalities, based on the assumption that individuals are not the same, but quite different in many ways.
4-b. Guild is almost unknown in Gorean morality, though shame and anger are not.
4-c. Gorean morality is bent towards conquest and defiance.
4-d. Gorean morality encourages honor, courage, hardness and strength.
4-e. Gorean morality says, "We are not equal; we are not the same; become equal to me; then we will be the same."
4-f. The object of Gorean morality is to make people free and great.
4-g. "Do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
4-h. "Be strong, and do as you will. The swords of others will set your limits."
4-i. "Within the circle of each man's sword, therein is each man an Ubar."
5. A Gorean takes his place in the order of nature (i.e. dominates women.)

The Gorean civilization/cultures that Norman depicts in the books are all based on these values, and are therefore more in line with actual human nature, thus representing the "answer" to Norman's thesis.

(My girl has dinner ready, and I am hungry, so I will finish my thoughts later)

Trevelyan

Trev, I hope your dinner was tasty.

I have to tell you I came across one of the Gor books a while back and I thought it was a bad read. I couldn't do it, couldn't get through it. But that is just me.

I think what draws many people to Gor and Gorean life is the fantasy of it all. Which to others could be perceived as being slightly odd or even a tad bit creepy.

My question is this....If I adhere and believe in the overall Gorean philosophy but have never read a single book would I be considered to be a Gorean?

Consider the analogy to be that of the missionaries going into the jungle and converting the natives to Christianity. Though the natives have never read the bible, as long as they accepted J.C. as their savior they were considered to be part of the club.

Am I in?

Mal,

The Great Earthly Ambassador to Gor Lord Domiguy

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/15/2010 12:04:17 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/14/2010 11:19:12 PM

Musicmystery

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Well, you'd have to change your name to domigor....

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Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 44

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/15/2010 1:41:31 PM

heartcream

Posts: 2931
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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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I am sure I am not the first to see this coming. domi wants to be Gor so bad. He doesnt want to read Norman but wants to be accepted as an Ambassador from the Other World.

It wont be long til Tupac will be sporting a PussnBoots outfit.

I think these talks are good because if you change one letter you have God.

Domi is over here having discussions with you all about Gor, similar to the hoopla of God.

Only is there a word in Gor that represents atheist? Then they could jump over here and demand you prove it scientifically pashaw, pashaw...

Why cant we follow your wise ways in Politics and Religion?

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 45

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/15/2010 3:01:52 PM

Musicmystery

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Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I certainly don't.

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http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 46

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/15/2010 6:21:14 PM

kushiels

Posts: 55
Joined: 11/1/2009
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Domiguy, what draws YOU to Gor, if you don't mind me asking?

For me, it is not the fantasy of it at all. It is the concepts of honor, of having and knowing one's place, and of Free people conducting themselves as FREE people--yes, we live within a framework of society, but we can still choose to do and take what we want, and accept the consequences. I, personally, am also drawn to the concept of those who are not Free, who are slaves, and their relationship with the Free and society as a whole. A group of people who knows what they are, isn't afraid of it, and doesn't really take any crap of anyone, who expect honesty and honor from those they may grant respect to...that is a fascinating people worth knowing, in my opinion.

I am still reading Tarnsman, and as an avid reader, I would agree with you that they are not the best literature I've ever read. But when the consensus among those who are Gorean is, repeatedly, "READ the books to understand," it makes me more willing to plow through them anyway. There are some amazing nuggets of beauty, after all. :)

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 47

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/16/2010 7:03:29 PM

Unbuilder

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Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
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Howdy domiguy

Perhaps this is over simplifying but I think that Trevalyan said it all in his first point... A Gorean is Sovereign within the circle of his steel.

All the other points are redundant.

Are you in???

I dunno...

Are you?

I wish you well
Unbuilder

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Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 48

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/16/2010 7:41:00 PM

CelticNightmare

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/15/2010
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I really see no concrete difference between principles stated for bdsm or Gor overall. Before people get upset-let me explain my thoughts.

There are commonalities in both traditions. Things like being true to the principles that attracted you to begin with. Both were laid out with some kind of structure.

The main variance is between the concepts of freedom and ownership-of self and others.

I find the ideals of individual freedom of thought and action through fair and consistent interactions with others to be attractive ones. Because that is how freedoms are maintained-and by guarding them.

So I can pass on the fantasy elements of both-and look to core elements instead.

"Homestone" is not just a chunk of rock.

It''s a state of mind. That could probably lead to a great deal more respect from outsiders if it were really understood. In the state of Freedom,one becomes one's own God. There is no one else to account to.

At the same time-there must be some mutual respect-or you live in a constant state of war.

This is the balance.

(in reply to Unbuilder)

Post #: 49

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/16/2010 8:28:57 PM

Cherylmazana

Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
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Hi Celtic,

I always thought that the principles of BDSM were about erotic or sexual play between two consenting adults. What has the main concepts of Gor IE slave or free moralities got to do with the hundreds of permutations of sexual kinks that BDSM embraces when Gor’s sexual preference is almost predominantly male dominance, with the few exceptions being considered aberrant due to frustration and unhappiness. I imagine a BDSM Domme would be most upset at being told she is a Domme due to the lack of men able to dominate her which is leading to deeply hidden unhappiness, after she stopped laughing at least.

I have seen many discussions about which rope is best or ball gag V penis gag, bottoms topping or what makes a good Dominant or submissive. However I don’t recall a specific BDSM based discussion on Home Stones V the flag as BDSM has no concept of Home Stones. Gor has slaves, not submissives or bottoms and certainly no switches. The only time women’s clothes are used is to humiliate not titillate and men and women do not change genders or believe they were born in the wrong body.

I have never met a weekend Gorean who was accepted as Gorean and yet many BDSM’rs happily only come out to play at weekends or specific play parties.

While there are superficial similarities in a small area of the sexual side to a minor aspect of sexual male dominance with bondage and female sexual slavery, there are many concrete differences. To a BDSM’er the superficial sexual similarities that come under the heading of BDSM have much greater importance than they really do.

Cheryl

(in reply to CelticNightmare)

Post #: 50

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/16/2010 9:07:46 PM

CelticNightmare

Posts: 103
Joined: 2/15/2010
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There are some concepts of honor amoung the more conservative BDSM Dominants. And no,very few of them seem to understand things like real consistency-or living life on thier own terms.

My ultimate goals in life have to do with becoming a stronger, more independent, and self sufficient man.

I find a distinct lack of dependable people in the world these days-so that tends to have to fall on me to acomplish for myself-as with anyone. I'm certainly not going to look for a slave to be at my back.

As far as sexual differences go.....I don't think that most men into this can really relate to a woman in thier position. I hate submitting to women. Outside of an elected official with authority-or a cop-you have to PAY me to do that.

I respect that women who make the choices they do to have power have every right to it. But not under my roof. I'd rather be alone and happy-free-than have to put up with daily drama in a place I come to for peace.

So I probably slide more down the Gorean side of the scale than I do "bdsm" overall. Especially with the amount of mental illness and flakiness I have seen associated with it over the years.

I guess I find myself enjoying order more as I age. No one gets into my life if they insist on being a disruptive influence.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Post #: 51

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/17/2010 5:25:43 AM

ElizabethAnne

Posts: 1710
Status: offline

Hello Celtic,

I have many BDSM friends, and have been around the BDSM lifestyle for years. For MOST BDSM'ers, their life revolves around their activities, and the central point is Dominance and submission. Which is not the central point for Goreans. A friend of ours came up over the weekend, and he is BDSM, we had a great discussion regarding the differences. For him, his submissive is first a girlfriend, and their "real life" comes before anything else, which does not include his BDSM "play". I will stress to say, this is not all but most I know personally.

And while there are similarities with Leather Lifestyler's, there are still startling differences, one of the main ones being, Home Stone. When I meet someone for the first time, and they say they are Gorean, BDSM, or Leather, in my mind I have a fairly good idea of what to expect. Usually I am not wrong. This is not to say each cannot have personal values, codes and ethics, for the most part they do, this is just saying there is a certain expectation within each culture.

I have been around the BDSM Dom's, and most of their conversation surrounds technique, the submissive or bottom, and their "toys". The conversation of Gorean free revolves around well...what you see here, as Cheryl pointed out. I am not demeaning anyone's chosen life, simply pointing out BDSM and Gor have almost nothing to do with each other.

Take care,

Elizabeth

(in reply to CelticNightmare)

Post #: 52

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/19/2010 6:33:07 AM

Nephilim

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco

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Post #: 53

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/19/2010 10:54:53 AM

Koa

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Hahahaha, I miss the muppets. Especialy Waldorf and Statler, the two old guys in the box seat.

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RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 2/19/2010 10:55:35 AM

Musicmystery

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And it's as close to Gorean philosophy as he's likely to get.

Long road, that.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/19/2010 10:56:02 AM >

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Gorean FAQ Threads

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Post #: 55

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 3/13/2010 3:55:37 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3363
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean?

Unless the "books" are available in Braille, I'm guessin' the blind would have a rough time of it.

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Post #: 56

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 3/18/2010 4:57:20 PM

MofTampa

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Joined: 11/20/2008
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No more difficult than the rest of life is. If you have issues being who you are, then maybe you need to question if that is truly who you are.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 57

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 3/18/2010 6:47:43 PM

Musicmystery

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Certainly the ebooks would make text to speech simple enough.

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Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

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Post #: 58

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 3/28/2010 8:36:33 PM

LordWraith67

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Joined: 3/17/2010
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< headdesk > some decent well versed, well thought out and eloquest, sensible, based in reality replies.... and few completely insecure people who need to go back to playing World of Warcraft and stop trying to interact with real people.
*This* is why Gorean got a bad rep for fat men or insecure bullies trying to gain a harem of idiot 18 years old to compensate for the Viagra not working anymore.
Gods, I'm hoping there's redemption in this...in even being on the site....I've seen some, and I'm grateful...but wow.
Kajiras...you deal with *this* to choose from?
There's hidden pearls for Masters and Mistresses, but sheesh...
I hope in reading further I'm proven *very* wrong, in thinking that the men in gorean earned thier being looked down upon and snickered at.

Lord Wraith

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 59

RE: Is it ever difficult to be a Gorean? - 3/28/2010 10:33:01 PM

Unbuilder

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Joined: 7/8/2007
From: Alaska
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Wraith

Who the fuck are you.... really?
Unbuilder

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In an endless universe, lie infinite opportunities, *anything is possible.
I am the man that I have chosen to become, for better or worse, the credit is mine, as well as the blame.
Objectivity should be a tool with two edges, one for you, one for me.

(in reply to LordWraith67)

Post #: 60

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