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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center!


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RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 1:11:05 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

On the other:

Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.36

But on a lot of the questions, I was neither agree/disagree, so seems a flawed overview.


That's the problem I had, too. On at least 3, maybe 4 questions, there was no sensible "either or" answer. At best, I needed more info, but wound up settling on an answer with which I wasn't really comfortable.

I still finished about where I would have expected. A little to the left of the Dalai Lama (that damned fascist) and about on a line with Gandhi and Mandela. And more libertarian than all 3 of them.

Economic Left/Right: -6.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54


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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 1:16:35 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

That's the problem I had, too. On at least 3, maybe 4 questions, there was no sensible "either or" answer. At best, I needed more info, but wound up settling on an answer with which I wasn't really comfortable.

Agreed. I hate forced-choice questions that don't have my answer among the available options.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/13/2010 1:19:38 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 1:30:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 13057
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From: California, USA
Status: online 		5.0 and a -3.23

Gee.  I'm a right leaning libertarian.  Who would have guessed?

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 1:36:03 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And of course, the paradigm still provides a perhaps convenient but inaccurate handle.

All of us have expressed views and positions outside of our assigned boxes (on free trade, I'm to the right of almost all of you!).

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 1:36:33 PM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I don't consider myself conservative or liberal and I don't like to be constrained by ideology.  I like doing whatever works. They call it being pragmatic so instead of conservatism or liberalism, for me it's pragmatism = moderate. And when I say do whatever works I mean works for everybody - not just the rich. None of the ideologies works all the time in every situation. For instance, Republicans are obsessed with tax cuts and the private sector as a solution to every problem.
 
If you're pragmatic you’re moderate.  If Nixon can go to China then it's okay for anyone to be pragmatic or a moderate.
 

Brain, you have described me exactly. These are the exact words I have used to explain my political position and leanings to others. I am indeed a moderate pragmatist. I also believe that this is where most problems will get solved, with those who are willing to consider all options and then pick the one that works the best (note that I did not say pick the one that works ideally). Herein lies the problem - people like us will make enemies on all sides. I have been accused by Libertarians of being a Statist if I accept the premise that govt can and should be involved in solving some problems, even though I hold many Libertarian views on limited govt. I have been accused of being a right wing nut by my Liberal friends if I watch Fox News, although I watch CNN and MSNBC equally. My Conservative friends call me a Marxist if I support Affirmative Action programs, although I believe in free market Capitalism. Ideologues will battle anyone who doesn't support their ideology. Find a flaw or defect in reason in someones ideology and then be prepared to go toe-to-toe with them or walk away. There is often no middle ground. We see this daily in political discourse in this country, and sadly in the forums here as well. I think the political and religious discussions here are a small reflection of society in general. Notice that people retreat to their corners here and nothing ever really gets resolved. The moderates, or people in the middle, just seem to stay clear for the most part. Our political system of Gerrymandering, election laws, campaign finance, among others ensures that the ideologues from any political party will continue to get elected. There are few exceptions, but not enough. Notice that the most viable third party in this country happens to be Libertarian. If Libertarianism ever gets a real foothold, either through the tea parties or some other mechanism, do you think the discourse and the ability to solve problems in this country will get better or worse?

(That was a rhetorical question, btw.)

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 1:44:15 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 26040
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Economic Left/Right: -5.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97

I like being close to Gandhi

As for the other one...

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 60%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 20%.

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...



LIBERALS usually embrace freedom of choice in personal

matters, but tend to support significant government control of the

economy. They generally support a government-funded "safety net"
to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation

of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations,

defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action

to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles.

Oddly enough, neither of these surprise me in the least

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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 2:12:45 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		It tried to tell me that too, but I'll decide, not the test!




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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 2:30:49 PM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually "extremist" has a definition, and it is not what you are saying, Merc, this is just your definition, which is fine, but stating that this is the definition of extremism is incorrect...

Political extremism are the people who march in the street, engage in terrorism, or advocate the overthrowing of the current system. It isn't your garden variety political debater on collarme... I was even joking with Sanity when I stated he is an extremist... I do not actually think he is..

The only person I would say that comes off as a real extremist on collarme is realone.

No, I'm an extremist- I fall into both the first and the third of your outlined conditions.  That fits in with your point about it being as much about how people present their views as much as the content of them.  I suspect that, because I generally discuss and debate in quite an emotionally detached way, quite how radical my politics are tends to fly under the radar a lot of the time.  Unless you get me on my hot button issues, most of which are UK focused anyway.

As an aside, I find it interesting that one of the standard ways of seeing the left/right divide on here is how much faith people but in government programs.  As an anarchist, I'm both further to the left and more anti government then pretty much everybody else who posts here.


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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 2:34:52 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is too short and the questions do not reflect some of the main differences between liberals and conservatives.

Butch



With Liberalism being a broad spectrum of political thought - it isn't so easy to nail it down in a paragraph.

I think of Liberalism as a centre ground point of view with a few core issues e.g. promotion of free trade/support for minimal military spending/advocation of investment in the skills and qualifications of your people - and where business isn't laying the foundations for this then yes it's important that goverment exercises a measure of redistribution of wealth. The rest....the environment etc...not interested at all (other liberals will see the environment as a worthy cause and will call for equality of outcome and oppose free trade).

The only two things I can think of that most English liberals would agree on are: a) minimal spending on defence in order to use the money on health or education and b) the promotion of civil liberties such as opposing ID cards/anti-terrorist laws etc.

So - even within a 'camp' there will be differences of opinion in philosophy and policy.

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 2:58:07 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually "extremist" has a definition, and it is not what you are saying, Merc, this is just your definition, which is fine, but stating that this is the definition of extremism is incorrect...

Political extremism are the people who march in the street, engage in terrorism, or advocate the overthrowing of the current system. It isn't your garden variety political debater on collarme... I was even joking with Sanity when I stated he is an extremist... I do not actually think he is..

The only person I would say that comes off as a real extremist on collarme is realone.

No, I'm an extremist- I fall into both the first and the third of your outlined conditions.  That fits in with your point about it being as much about how people present their views as much as the content of them.  I suspect that, because I generally discuss and debate in quite an emotionally detached way, quite how radical my politics are tends to fly under the radar a lot of the time.  Unless you get me on my hot button issues, most of which are UK focused anyway.

As an aside, I find it interesting that one of the standard ways of seeing the left/right divide on here is how much faith people but in government programs.  As an anarchist, I'm both further to the left and more anti government then pretty much everybody else who posts here.




Hey... I am not going to negate you... you wanna label yourself as whatever you like, go ahead

I am a left leaning Libertarian myself... as far left as anyone else that posts here, including you. In fact I cheer for protesters at economic summits


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Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 3:51:02 PM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It tried to tell me that too, but I'll decide, not the test!





LOL.  Now thats the way people should think!  I can't fault you, Sanity, or any other person for believing what you believe.  And I sure wouldn't let a test determines the sure-fire outcome of what you are or believe.  I said mine was just a "fun, little" test.  On the page somewhere, I believe it said it was the world's shortest political test. 

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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 4:00:28 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It tried to tell me that too, but I'll decide, not the test!





LOL.  Now thats the way people should think!  I can't fault you, Sanity, or any other person for believing what you believe.  And I sure wouldn't let a test determines the sure-fire outcome of what you are or believe.  I said mine was just a "fun, little" test.  On the page somewhere, I believe it said it was the world's shortest political test. 


Wow, so we take a fun test and we surmise that it pretty much describes how we previously thought about our political stances, and therefore we are letting the test define us... that is really funny

I suppose I get a kick when the daily horoscope gets it right once in a while too, but I certainly do not define my life by it or even believe it.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 5:44:23 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		julia,

Sense of humor girl.

See? -->

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 5:46:35 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

As an anarchist, I'm both further to the left and more anti government then pretty much everybody else who posts here.

It's a good point. Insisting on seeing the world through a left/right paradigm prevents seeing realities like this one.

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:04:45 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 2364
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		FR

The problem is in truth you could break down the entire spectrum on Abortion.

Any Republican or Conservative who is pro life gets tagged with being an Extremist or Hard Right no matter where they stand on other issues.

Any Democrat who is pro-life is deemed a Moderate and Centerist (publically, privately they are called wack jobs) no matter their stand on other issues.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:06:52 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

julia,

Sense of humor girl.

See? -->


I just have to say, this is a really rather patronising comment, in the face of a very articulate and intelligent poster. Not many women like to be called "girl", and I doubt very much that you'd enjoy being called "boy" by anyone, let alone a woman. I'm not trying to speak for Julia, but I hope she won't mind me saying that this was out of order.



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And there was light... and her finger was on the switch.

Give the kid the pick of pips,
And give him all your stripes and ribbons.
Now he's sitting in his hole,
He might as well have buttons and bows.

~ Kate Bush

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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:07:01 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 2861
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I apologize for disappearing for so long in mid-conversation.  We were traveling from Las Vegas and just arrived back home.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

... This is an issue that deserves its own thread, please.


I don't disagree, however, you claim that no one can identify issues that they would consider further right than their own.  It shall be difficult to do so without going into the issues themselves... at least to some extent.

If you'll recall, I simply stated my feelings on the issue of evolution with regard to education.  You were the one who had to challenge my statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Also---please, things are distorted enough. I didn't say it places you "far to the right." I said "right." It is, in fact, a conservative position.

So far, no one seems to know what "far right" might be.


It would seem that you already place people according to your own scale.  From your comment to me...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So seems you've gone from center to right rather promptly on education.


You've clearly made a judgment call with no regard to my own stated classification.  I believe I had already said that I considered myself "center right"... in other words, moderate but leaning toward the conservative side.  With the example I gave, I was demonstrating an issue in which my feelings were conservative but where I felt there were viewpoints far further right than my own.

It seems to me that you ask the questions, but are not willing to listen to the answers given.

Pity, that.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:13:07 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Drop the attitude. You're making erroneous assumptions. People are damn touchy of late, and needlessly.

You started by talking about coddling children. Later, you moved to discussing evolution as a philosophy topic rather than science.

That's a move from center to right by pretty much anyone's definition.

If you mean that demoting evolution from science is NOT your view, but rather to the right of you, I misunderstood, as it's not what you said.

I can only read what you write. Not psychic here.

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:38:44 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8563
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		FR:





I am a "centralist" according to the Political Compass (does that make me a moderate?), and a flaming Libertarian according to the Advocate test.

I'm called a "neo-con", "right wing fascist", "christian fundamentalist wacko" by many of the more "left" members of the forum.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Please welcome Sanity to the Center! - 3/13/2010 6:47:00 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 15304
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting.

I've always seen you as a middle of the road conservative, one usually fair and balanced when sharing your views.

Oh, the fun of tests and paradigms!

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Gorean FAQ Threads

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Profile   Post #: 200
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