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Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/26/2010 10:34:19 AM

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I've observed some passive behaviors and other bad behaviors like sulking from subs, and often these are men that are perfectly capable of being emotionally mature. I've wondered if there's an issue with submisisve men feeling like it's "not submissive" to be direct, say what they feel, or state that they are unhappy about something - if somehow this is viewed as being difficult, argumentative or challenging. Is just sending non verbal cues via sulking or "snarky jokes" or other types of passive aggressive behavior considered "safer" or just more appropriate?

Another reason I wonder this is that I've found that when I correct the behavior and tell them to knock it off and be direct instead, they generally do; in other words, these are hard wired personality traits, they just express them in what they think is appropriate submissive behavior, when it's not.

Or, maybe I am just delirious from lack of sleep. :)

Akasha

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/26/2010 11:03:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I've wondered if there's an issue with submisisve men feeling like it's "not submissive" to be direct, say what they feel, or state that they are unhappy about something - if somehow this is viewed as being difficult, argumentative or challenging.

I have had the same issues with a couple of subs. Not just men, mind you. Females sometimes have the same problem. Even though at the beginning, you may express the fact that they can come to you with any concerns, etc, that they may have, they sometimes hold back. Now, I am not sure if they are doing this on purpose to get extra attention, or if there is something truly making them unhappy. Maybe they are afraid of losing you, or whoever their Dom/me may be, and think that if they truly said what they thought, then you would be very angry with them, or that they might disappoint you. It is this thought of disappointing the Dom/me, that has the biggest effect on them. If they are honestly and truly devoted to their Dom/me, then the very thought of disappointing their Master/Mistress is agony.

Edited to add: When rereading the OP, I noticed that you told them to "knock it off and be direct instead" and they generally do. Maybe it was just assumed sppropriate behavior, like you originally thought.

< Message edited by LadyPhoenix85 -- 3/26/2010 11:10:27 AM >

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/26/2010 11:11:04 AM

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I have seen it in all types of people.

Based upon my experience, it is insecurity based. In addition, most people do not have a clue how to handle any sort of conflict in a calm constructive manner.

You take one person that is fearful of negative repercussions of honest communication, another person that blows up at anything even hinting of criticism or disagreement, and you've got a perfect recipe for passive aggressive behaviour.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/26/2010 3:32:17 PM

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Passive aggressive or sulking, pouting, etc tells me that it is time to work on the sub/slave/bottoms communication skills. As LaT points out all sorts of people use these techniques and in my experience, this is usually learned in their family. A direct approach work with most but in some cases I prefer to let them walk away and come back when they are more rational.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/26/2010 5:59:54 PM

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quote:

Based upon my experience, it is insecurity based. In addition, most people do not have a clue how to handle any sort of conflict in a calm constructive manner.

I agree. I've seen this behaviour in all types, d, s and everything in between. I'm quite fortunate as I've had very few passive-agressive partners. Then again, I wouldn't put up with that type of behaviour for very long.

- LA

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 12:12:01 AM

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You have accused me of passive-aggressive behavior before, which isn't true or fair. Maybe sometimes you are misinterpreting male behavior.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 7:05:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

You have accused me of passive-aggressive behavior before, which isn't true or fair. Maybe sometimes you are misinterpreting male behavior.

Actually, from what I've read from you on the boards, you display mostly passive-agressive behaviour. This type of behaviour is not native to any man that I have in my circle of friends, whether they be dominant, submissive or anything in between.

Here is a psychological (medical) definition for Passive-Aggressive

quote:

Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a long-term (chronic) condition in which a person seems to actively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them. In the process, the person becomes increasingly hostile and angry.

Symptoms

People with this disorder resent responsibility and show it through their behaviors, rather than by openly expressing their feelings. They often use procrastination, inefficiency, and forgetfulness to avoid doing what they need to do or have been told by others to do.

Some common symptoms of passive-aggressive personality disorder include:

Acting sullen

Avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness

Being inefficient on purpose

Blaming others

Complaining

Feeling resentment

Having a fear of authority

Having unexpressed anger or hostility

Procrastinating

Resisting other people's suggestions

A person with this disorder may appear to comply with another's wishes and may even demonstrate enthusiasm for those wishes. However, they:

Perform the requested action too late to be helpful

Perform it in a way that is useless

Sabotage the action to show anger that they cannot express in words

Notice any patterns?

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 3/28/2010 7:06:06 AM >

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 2:53:57 PM

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I think you are correct, and agree with what LadyPhoenix85 and LaTigresse wrote in their posts. Maybe they feel it's expected to just grin and bear it, in a manner of speaking. Or, to add another point, maybe they didn't realize what they were doing? Maybe they didn't know they could tell you about the problem? If so then it's up to the both the people involved to make sure (from the beginning) that they know it's all right to request time for talks and problem solving.

On the other hand, there can also be the issue of the PA person simply being a pain in the nether regions and expecteveryone around them to be a mindreader. I hate those sort of people. No matter how hard you (I, actually) try to tell them that it's fine to come talk to me, they never do. They just sit there sulking and expect you to figure the problem out on your own. That sort of thing is not good for any relationship of any kind; everything stumbles to a grinding halt. Best to just have a nice chat and some cocoa (or a paddling) to get you out of the PA funk.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 4:14:55 PM

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madderrose, my life has been so much more drama free since I broke ties with passive aggressive individuals. I highly recommend it.

- LA

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 7:50:41 PM

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I think the term passive aggressive has been overused by a lot of people as a crutch they use because its easy to categorize almost anyone as one and then feel good about it while doing so. I've seen the term used on people who were angry at someone, who were shy, who were actually passive aggressive, who were drama queens/kings, and sometimes when the person in question was just toxic or nuts. I even knew a person who was so passive aggressive, she used to call everyone else passive aggressive and then get angry if you didn't agree with her.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 8:10:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Passive aggressive or sulking, pouting, etc tells me that it is time to work on the sub/slave/bottoms communication skills. As LaT points out all sorts of people use these techniques and in my experience, this is usually learned in their family. A direct approach work with most but in some cases I prefer to let them walk away and come back when they are more rational.

There's been a lot of great feedback in this thread. But in some of the responses, I think people are missing one of the main points about my OP: I am not talking about men/subs/slaves "who are passive aggressive" - but those that just resort to that kind of thing *only* when submitting or in a BDSM context. Once I explain to them that they can just be clear about what it is that is bothering them, and that being direct and communicating is ok, the problem goes away.

I think if anything I have learned that if a man displays this kind of communication style during S&M or when "submitting," he shouldn't be written off as being "a passive aggressive person." It just might be that he's not sure about how to communicate things without coming off as disobedient, direct or "unsubmissive."

I think there's a whole area of discussion that could happen about how a man can communicate, even state his unhappiness, without being "unsubmissive."

Akasha

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 8:27:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPhoenix85
I have had the same issues with a couple of subs. Not just men, mind you. Females sometimes have the same problem. Even though at the beginning, you may express the fact that they can come to you with any concerns, etc, that they may have, they sometimes hold back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I've seen this behavior in all types, d, s and everything in between.-

Yes, i was going to say that it happens with women, too, not just men. And in D-types as well as s-types.....even some 'nillas. lol i think there can be all types of people that are like that. Maybe it's attention-seeking behavior or maybe it's because of poor communication skills but, whatever the reason, it needs to be 'nipped in the bud" and right away.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/28/2010 11:58:06 PM

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quote:

LadyAngelika

Notice any patterns?

- LA

That definition provides a very weak correlation with my behavior, therefore it's fair to conclude that I'm not passive aggressive. I may come across as a PA because of my writing style but it doesn't represent my real world traits.

More than a few women at CM characterize me that way just because I don't suck up to them. Ironically they also criticize "yes" men submissives. It's a typical female behavior to not know what they themselves want.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/29/2010 12:00:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

I think the term passive aggressive has been overused by a lot of people as a crutch they use because its easy to categorize almost anyone as one and then feel good about it while doing so. I've seen the term used on people who were angry at someone, who were shy, who were actually passive aggressive, who were drama queens/kings, and sometimes when the person in question was just toxic or nuts. I even knew a person who was so passive aggressive, she used to call everyone else passive aggressive and then get angry if you didn't agree with her.

It's an easy way to marginalize people. In a similar way liberals use the term "racist" whenever they feel that can't win an argument.

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RE: Passive aggressive behavior and sulking - 3/29/2010 4:40:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba
That definition provides a very weak correlation with my behavior, therefore it's fair to conclude that I'm not passive aggressive. I may come across as a PA because of my writing style but it doesn't represent my real world traits.

Which is why I wrote from what I've read from you on the boards, you display mostly passive-agressive behaviour.

I have no idea what you are like off the boards.

- LA

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