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Agent/Rules based morality - 5/7/2010 2:48:27 AM

Cherylmazana

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Hi allyC I thought I would continue this in a new thread rather than de-rail the other one.

I agree with this

quote:

I think in the end, it all boils down to the philosophical breakdown. Agent based morality = Master. Rules based morality = slave. To me, a free woman is not a mastered woman. She is free. She does not seek an outside source to dictate how she is to live. She may listen to the ideas of others and perhaps take the advice of others but when it comes to the core of her life, she lives it based on her own personal ethic and core principles.

I suppose though the question is how many women who call themselves Gorean free women live by a rules based morality? What then are they? In a fully Gorean society they would be free simply by the virtue of not being enslaved so does that apply here as well?

And the same for a woman who is called a slave even when she states most categorically that if she was told to do something she felt was dishonourable she would walk away from the relationship. By your morality based rules she would be a free woman, but by Gorean culture and the virtue of the collar around her neck she would still be a slave.

Can you really be a slave if you have an agent based morality, after all the books repeatedly state slaves have no honour, can you really be enslaved if you do and can a person really be free if they don't?

Cheryl

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RE: Agent/Rules based morality - 5/7/2010 6:39:11 PM

Malkinius

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Greetings Cheryl.....

We all live in a rules based system....called laws. Most morality and ethics count as rules based as well and yes, that includes the ones we call Gorean. If you follow them you do or do not do certain things. Free people are the ones who determine which sets of rules they will live under. Slaves live under the rules set for them. Yes, I am not including the laws of the countries we live in at the moment tho we can choose those as well or which ones of them will will obey or flaunt or ignore. The difference is in who gets to choose the rules.

Be well....

Malkinius

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RE: Agent/Rules based morality - 5/7/2010 7:48:23 PM

Cherylmazana

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I saw an interesting documentary involving children a year or so ago, it involved children from about 7 years old to about 11 separated by gender into two groups who lived without any adult supervision or rules, they were monitored constantly remotely by camera with people on 24/7 ready to come in and stop things if necessary but the children didn’t realise this.

What was interesting is that the girls divided into small groups and set up an us against them system, where the war was fought with words and there were no set rules, everything could change from moment to moment depending on what was happening. Everyone was clean fed and warm but the psychological cruelty was surprising.

The boys after the one time things got out of hand and someone got hurt during play wrote down a set of rules to prevent it happening again. The boys didn’t set up a way for those who couldn’t cook to get food, they didn’t wash and nothing was cleaned, but those who broke the rules were ostracised until they gave in and conformed.

And the moral of this little story is ... men like fixed rules with clear penalties, women don’t, they prefer to negotiate constantly within a changing framework, it’s only when men and women work together set rules work for women.

So do women and men have different rules to live by? They certainly have different ways of looking at rules when they start with a blank page and no members of the opposite sex around. Men set up a system so physical hurt is prevented, women set up a system so psychological hurt is lessened.

Everyone lives by rules imposed on them by someone unless they live on their own island isolated from others, making rules is how communities live together without killing each other.

Cheryl

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RE: Agent/Rules based morality - 5/11/2010 10:21:27 AM

mary94583a

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Ever see the boys and girls at play. The girls sit down and negotiate a game. The boys play organized sports by the rules.

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