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"Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 9:31:14 AM

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Usually when I bring up this subject, I am met with replies that say I'm describing "topping from the bottom" or something other than true submission. But I think there is something here...

Let me give an example in vanilla terms:

A man and a woman have gone out on several dates. The man would like to bring up the idea of having sex. He approaches the woman, and very timidly says, "hey, like... you know... we've been dating for a while now and I think we can take it to the next level, you know, if it's okay with you and everything... we could have sex." The woman might respond to such an "invitation" with, "well, I'm not feeling ready yet... everything is going well it's not about you, it's me... but maybe it will happen soon...?"

Far be it from me to know how to predict the response of a woman (some like shy guys), but usually passive and whiney does not make for a dramatic night of making love. It might make more sense for the man to become locked in a passionate kiss and throw the woman on a table, or at least look her directly in the eyes and say, "I want to make love to you right now." There IS a role for permission seeking, but you also got to bring it, too.

One method is likely to find yourself home alone with a list of excuses, another with hot, passionate sex.

Wouldn't the same apply to a D/s relationship?

It seems to be that on some level, the domme must establish herself as dominant in the mind of the submissive. And yes, the submissive must do the same. I think there is something fundamentally different than a timid, "oh yeah, don't touch yourself for a while, let's watch a movie or something" to "don't touch my penis, I don't want you to cum, and you want me to be happy, don't you?" or something to that effect. I think there has to be a chemistry established, and at some point the domme has to bring it, maybe early on to win over the submissive.

Thoughts?

RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 9:33:31 AM

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I wouldn't timidly ask. That's my entire thought.

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 10:29:11 AM

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I don't know if I would call that 'winning them over' exactly. More like putting on your seduction hat and tilting it just -so- gets you going in the direction you want, or not. From either side of the equation I think it applies. I mean from the bottom or submissive side I wouldn't be -meek-. Coy perhaps, flirty about it, definitely try to turn on the allure. From the top side, it becomes a balancing act though. How much 'Domination' to turn on while still taking into consideration the other person's feelings about progressing further into the intimate side of the relationship.

I've always been of the mind you need to have the 'serious talk' before the 'I'm going to start ordering you around' phase. It's been my method to usually sit down and just start playing pop quiz when the time is right, find out what the other person see's happening, wants to happen, if they're ready for X Y or Z yet. I tend to be pretty forward that way though when it comes to relationships, I like the open honest, 'express what's on your mind or in your pants' approach as opposed to dancing around topics, or bullrushing into them.

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 10:44:39 AM

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flirty, coy... subtle (sometimes too... ) ..

but timid would not be word used to describe me

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 11:18:45 AM

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When I was about nineteen, my mother had a group of friends that used to get together at least once a week at her place and would discuss and debate things, drink a little wine and had fun. I waited a year to get invited to one and the first one, her boyfriend who was a very wise man said that every woman knows when a couple is going to have sex for the first time. I found this offensive as if it was manipulated and tried to give a rebuttal. lol That didn't go so well! lol I looked back and every time I had sex with someone, I knew before he did that we were going to have sex. That hasn't changed.

Most of the time you can tell when someone is interested in you and to some degree, at what level of interest they are at. If I am not interested in the progression to other things, I make sure in some way that is clear. If I am interested, I make sure that that is clear as well. How I do it or how it comes about varies. I like to take the emotional guess work out of things even if I am keeping some guess work in there for the tease effect.

Even in situations where he has made the first move... lol... I arranged it. Now I know the fantasy for most men and maybe many women is the dominant woman taking charge and grabbing him and tossing him to the so called soft surface or the wall, but personally I like to see how he approaches... how he kisses and if there is a struggle to do so. It tells me a lot I want to know and could be the final deciding factor in what does happen if I am on the fence about it. I am not thinking great sex for this time, I am thinking great sex for many times and setting the stage for it. It also provides me with some funny little stories for later or ammo I can use in playing him. (In a good way!)

Before I am really dominant with someone, there is that talk. With some I have met online, we have talked about d/s enough for me to know what might happen and I will tell them what might happen if things go a certain way and in a couple long distance, things were talked about to a large degree. In person, most often some discussion about my dominant nature has taken place before I am willing to go there.

However it comes about and no matter what place I was in in life, what age, whether I saw myself as dominant or not... I knew before hand... I arranged it to some degree however it happened and that hasn't and won't change. It all depends on the man and what I want to know or do. It is just difficult to describe it because it varies. I know, I see, I work it. Rarely is he clueless or uncomfortable though.

I think this is what you were wanting Attendtoyou... if not... I will try to figure it out as this thread goes on.

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 11:21:24 AM

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Your basic premise is that the D/s dynamic does not exist until sex is on the table. If I'm with someone who I know to be submissive, I will have taken the initiative prior to sex.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 2:26:46 PM

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By the time we're at the first kiss, a man knows that I am dominant, sadistic and kinky. So any conversations about who does what and when - it's usually very well established that I am the one in control.

Akasha

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 3:40:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou
It seems to be that on some level, the domme must establish herself as dominant in the mind of the submissive.

In my world, the interactions which establish dominance and submission happen every instant the moment two people are in contact with each other whether or not anyone knows that's what's going on. The only thing I need or want to bring to a meeting with a prospective partner is my authentic self. If that authentic self, whatever it is, doesn't register as dominant to a particular sub (and god knows in my case it would not to most subs), then that person isn't a good submissive for me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to AttendToYou)

RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 4:05:57 PM

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Us guys just let you ladies think you have decided on the time and place. The truth is, it is pre-ordained, why do you think the first thing we do in a bar is go use the condom machine.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/2/2010 9:28:34 PM

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Part of it is just knowing that I can't top from the bottom. Part of being a submissive means the discipline of going against some wishes so that I can be in a deeper relationship of submission. There will be times when I'll want to whine, or have an orgasm on my terms, and just knowing in my bones that she can't be swayed and that it is truly important to her that I stay in line means a lot.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/3/2010 10:40:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou
Usually when I bring up this subject, I am met with replies that say I'm describing "topping from the bottom" or something other than true submission. But I think there is something here...

What I think is that dominance and submission is a bi-directional exchange. The idea that the submissive partner will have no impact nor influence the decisions of the dominant partner... even significant decisions... is flawed in my opinion.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to AttendToYou)

RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/3/2010 11:38:57 AM

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T think everyone has posted great points on here

quote:

I looked back and every time I had sex with someone, I knew before he did that we were going to have sex. That hasn't changed.

BINGO!

quote:

The idea that the submissive partner will have no impact nor influence the decisions of the dominant partner... even significant decisions... is flawed in my opinion.

quote:

In my world, the interactions which establish dominance and submission happen every instant the moment two people are in contact with each other whether or not anyone knows that's what's going on.

IMHO, the sub has ultimate power. They are ALLOWING the D to have control. I choose who I am submissive to and it is an extremely small number. When I meet someone I'm generally a dominating person, it's how they react to me which decides how I will proceed with them.

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No kind of sensation is keener and more active than pain it's impressions are unmistakable. -Marquis DeSade

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/3/2010 2:30:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AttendToYou

Part of it is just knowing that I can't top from the bottom. Part of being a submissive means the discipline of going against some wishes so that I can be in a deeper relationship of submission. There will be times when I'll want to whine, or have an orgasm on my terms, and just knowing in my bones that she can't be swayed and that it is truly important to her that I stay in line means a lot.

There is no topping from the bottom. That's a cop out from someone that chose the wrong partner or can't seize the reins. My subordinates don't tell me what to do. They give advice that I use at my discretion.

Your terms never disappear. You agree to adhere to the other persons instead, especially when the two aren't well aligned.

~porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/3/2010 2:56:15 PM

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quote:

Thoughts?

My thought is you overthink this.

Two people meet....and they click or they do not.
They become friends...or they do not.
They become lovers....or they do not.
They become Master and Servant....or they do not.

In all cases, one or the other outcome will happen. The how of the happening is driven entirely by the personalities involved.

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"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no Try."
Corny movie cliche that just happens to be true.

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RE: "Winning Over" The Submissive - 8/3/2010 7:47:32 PM

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With every dominant person I have interacted with, sexually or non, there is something there with them that defines them as dominant. They don't have to force it over on the submissive person...it is just there. On my first date with a lovely domme I saw when I was 18...she very sweetly asked me to put sugar in her coffee. Something that simple, and bam, there was already a bit of power exchange.
With my Sir, he took control in minor ways from the very first time we met, to full control in choosing when and where we would first become intimate.

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Rose-y Pose-y, Puddin' Pie. Kissed Some Dommes and Made Them Cry.

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