Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (Full Version)

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Hippiekinkster -> Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 12:24:16 AM)

I knew this all along, myself...

"There is no place for God in theories on the creation of the Universe, Professor Stephen Hawking has said.

He had previously argued belief in a creator was not incompatible with science but in a new book, he concludes the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics.

The Grand Design, part serialised in the Times, says there is no need to invoke God to set the Universe going.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something," he concluded."



Brain -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 12:40:20 AM)

I think the majority of people know this now and it’s time we speak up and rid ourselves of this irrational fairy tale we call religion which they use to pollute minds with lies like if you blow yourself up you go to heaven and will be with 50 virgins.



Fellow -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 12:43:46 AM)

quote:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.


Do not take it as a criticism of the actual book  (I need to read it first) but the sentence the news flash cites does not make much sense. Nothing becomes something because of gravity exists and the proof of spontaneous creation is that there is something (the universe).
I still ask: why nothing becomes something? The question is how to understand nothing?
Anyway, I will look for the book in the library. It could be an interesting read.





Brain -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 12:59:54 AM)


It happened like in this video. Gravity could only compress to a fraction of an atom and then the rebound or reverse, The Big Bang, happened.

YouTube - The Birth of the Universe Big Bang and Beyond
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZqhqR5XKM

Because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not true.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.


Do not take it as a criticism of the actual book  (I need to read it first) but the sentence the news flash cites does not make much sense. Nothing becomes something because of gravity exists and the proof of spontaneous creation is that there is something (the universe).
I still ask: why nothing becomes something? The question is how to understand nothing?
Anyway, I will look for the book in the library. It could be an interesting read.







Kirata -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 1:02:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I knew this all along, myself...

The entire history of scientific progress is a laundry list of "facts" that weren't, and I think it would be exceedingly naive of us to imagine that the scientific facts of today are somehow immune to that process. To believe that Stephen Hawking has delivered the final answer is no different from blind faith in anything else.

K.



Fellow -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 1:08:15 AM)

quote:

I think the majority of people know this now and it’s time we speak up and rid ourselves of this irrational fairy tale we call religion

This is not true. The majority of people do not know what is matter/energy, space, gravity, nothingness etc.... After all we are talking about a scientific theory. There was time when (according to science) the Earth was in the center of the Universe. Then, I guess, the majority also knew it was true.



ShoreBound149 -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 1:22:20 AM)

Based on this, I will now worship M-80s.

Thank you.



Brain -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 1:36:44 AM)

This is when religion thought it was a science.

quote:

There was time when (according to science) the Earth was in the center of the Universe.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 5:47:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I knew this all along, myself...

The entire history of scientific progress is a laundry list of "facts" that weren't, and I think it would be exceedingly naive of us to imagine that the scientific facts of today are somehow immune to that process. To believe that Stephen Hawking has delivered the final answer is no different from blind faith in anything else.

K.

Well, in my view, the entire history of scientific progress has been the slow, painstaking process of utilizing empiricism and reason to displace the superstition, irrationality, and ignorance of "folk wisdom" and religion. There have been, along the way, some hypotheses and theories that were based on nothing more than wishful thinking. Eugenics, Phlogiston, Phrenology, Homeopathic "medicine", Ether, the Geocentric universe, the Flat Earth, the 4 Bodily Humours, Numerology, Miasma (bad air), and the Classical Elements (fire, earth, air, water; plus aether or void in some systems; the & Chakras correspond to the 5 elements in the Hindu Mahabhuta system) are but a few (note that not all of these are post-Rennaiscence (sp) "theories").

A few current examples are Intelligent Design, Abiogenesis (the theory that oil is spontaneously created below the mantle and seeps up), Cold Fusion, ESP, UFOs, and the Solar variation theory of GCC. The pseudoarcheology presented by ID proponents is a particular source of humor to me.

There is no testable, falsifiable alternative to a natural Cosmology. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't make the Universe.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 5:55:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


There is no testable, falsifiable alternative to a natural Cosmology. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't make the Universe.




I thought it was ziti?



Twoshoes -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 6:16:26 AM)

Still doesn't explain what created physics.

I'll admit there doesn't have to be something that did, but it doesn't rule out the possibility.



samboct -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 6:25:54 AM)

I'm sorry, but the current explanation of the Big Bang forming the universe runs into a massive problem termed inflation. Essentially, the universe is larger than its age of some 12 billion years. It's bigger than 12 billion light years across. If the speed of light is a constant- well, then how did this happen? Yeah, I know, somebody starts saying that space has lots of extra dimensions or something, but the physical model of the big bang doesn't make intuitive sense.

Furthermore- I know of no way of proving that there wasn't an organizer of the big bang- i.e. some agency shaping the whole thing. This organizer would have been destroyed during the big bang, thus religions which claim that the creator died to give his creation life have got at least a shred of a point.

I'm a scientist- I know that no religion has got the explanation for where we came from right, but it doesn't mean that the concept is wrong. These days, I'm more agnostic than anything else- I can't prove or disprove the notion of a creator and I'm OK with that.

Sam



cpK69 -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 6:57:57 AM)

Kirata, I adore you. [:)]

As for the OP, it is truly bewildering to me, how smart people can be so unintelligent.

Kim



sirsholly -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 7:03:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

This is when religion thought it was a science.

quote:

There was time when (according to science) the Earth was in the center of the Universe.

there is a huge difference between religion and faith. I know it may sound like semantics, but religion is an organization. Faith is a belief.



sirsholly -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 7:06:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


There is no testable, falsifiable alternative to a natural Cosmology. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't make the Universe.




I thought it was ziti?
come on fellas.....the plans for the universe were drawn in Penne...



cpK69 -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 7:12:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

there is a huge difference between religion and faith. I know it may sound like semantics, but religion is an organization. Faith is a belief.



[:)]



mnottertail -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 7:24:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


There is no testable, falsifiable alternative to a natural Cosmology. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't make the Universe.




I thought it was ziti?


It was a rabid sect of starch zionists that promoted that widespread heresy. And it ain't spaghetti, neither.....mac and cheese, there's your answer.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 7:26:34 AM)

Holly says it's a penne monster and otter says it's the flying mac and cheese monster.. Im soooo confused



Termyn8or -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 8:03:48 AM)

"If the speed of light is a constant- well, then how did this happen?"

Easy one, as long as you discard the notion that nothing can travel faster than C. While C is a constant in a total vacuum, being subject to the Doppler effect disproves the notion hands down. Through spectography they can determine if a star is moving toward us due to the blue shift. The fact that there is a blue shift proves that the light is coming at us at greater than C.

Even if we could prove the universe is 12 billion light years across (or whatever), which we can't, this blows the 12 billion year age estimate right out of the water.

There is science which is pretty much proven. A motor works, the vacuum tube and subsequently transistors work, chemical reactions happen. There are more than 4 or 5 elements, in fact there are more than 104. And whatever the number is now, there are undoubtedly more than that. A piece of wire works, as does the insulation around it, and we know why due to direct observation.

However when we get  into the unknown, it is exactly that. Even if we accept the current theory, 12 billion years, just what was there 13 billion years ago ? For there to be  big bang there must have been space and matter, and obviously energy. Well that's what makes up the current universe, so that means there must have been a universe before the creation of the universe.

So yes it is faith. I did not say religon. But each are equally uncertain.

T



GotSteel -> RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe (9/3/2010 8:15:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Abiogenesis (the theory that oil is spontaneously created below the mantle and seeps up)

I don't think that's a valid summation of Abiogenesis.



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