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Boo! - 10/31/2010 5:52:36 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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Less little darlins roaming the countryside tonight, so more time to spend online while waiting for the next round of goblins, witches and ghosts.

Been thinking.  

What I have observed and taken in from hanging with some goreans, is that this particular way of life celebrates the sexes.  It allows women to embrace their sexuality and femininity, to not be terrified of pointing fingers and wagging tongues when they acknowledge this.  I can't really say what it means to men, but to my eyes, it allows them the freedom to also beeeeee themselves.   This is just the tip of an iceberg, I know there is much more in depth discussions that can and have gone on, but this one issue is useful in moving on to my next point. 

Men are from mars, women from venus, there are differences.  Not just the physically obvious, but emotionally and even down to the way socks are folded.  From those I have observed, these differences, (even the minute ones) are not something to be pushed under the sofa. 

When you read a post by a male, the general composition has a different emotional "tug" then when reading a womans.   Women tend to be much easier led by emotions, (just my observation), probably due to being so "exposed".  

Have you ever read a post and thought..."hmm...that sounds more female then male"...yet the signature is claiming to have balls?   Here, it can get confusing, since the very nature of these forums is open to any and all.   When I read what appears to be something from a Harlequin romance novel, I just assume it's a female, cuz I can't see a bunch of gorean men sitting around a table, discussing how their kisses effect the slave in their life.   It sounds female, something women talk about and pay 3.00 a copy for the latest book with Fabio on the cover.  

Am I wrong?  Maybe I am...perhaps men do chit chat about the reactions of their manly touch, while sharing a pint with the guys.

Just tossing these thoughts out there...  wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, or... Im just way off base. 

Happy Halloween everyone, :)

Lisa



_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King
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RE: Boo! - 10/31/2010 7:08:14 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
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Biological truths of a species, just like any other animal in nature. Since we are social creatures, society can have an impact on our actions, and this is part of what Lange was writing about. He changed the society setting, and then wrote about the human animal. Now we have to determine on whether we are acting based upon our own natural programming, or societal prgramming.

There is much to unlearn.

Good observations Lisa.

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


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RE: Boo! - 11/2/2010 12:01:28 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline
Greetings

quote:

When you read a post by a male, the general composition has a different emotional "tug" then when reading a womans.   Women tend to be much easier led by emotions, (just my observation), probably due to being so "exposed".


Hum...when I write on forums, including on collarme before people are told I am a woman or look at my profile they tend to think I am a man. That can off course be because I tend to have interests that are more common in men than women and that I have a rather direct way to express myself. It do make me feel slightly odd though to constantly be referred to as he, especially when someone else in the thread then says oh Nephandi is a girl, and someone asks, are you sure?

Anyway yes, I do get the feeling from reading someone's writing that be a book or a post that they are this sex or another and more often than not I am right, men and women tends to express themselves differently, but I am wrong quite a few times to, as sometimes that very sensitive, romantic poster that I am sure is a woman turns out to be a man, and that very direct, aggressive poster I am sure is a man turns out to be a woman, nothing is absolute.

I wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
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RE: Boo! - 11/2/2010 5:12:27 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Less little darlins roaming the countryside tonight, so more time to spend online while waiting for the next round of goblins, witches and ghosts.

Been thinking.  

What I have observed and taken in from hanging with some goreans, is that this particular way of life celebrates the sexes.  It allows women to embrace their sexuality and femininity, to not be terrified of pointing fingers and wagging tongues when they acknowledge this.  I can't really say what it means to men, but to my eyes, it allows them the freedom to also beeeeee themselves.   This is just the tip of an iceberg, I know there is much more in depth discussions that can and have gone on, but this one issue is useful in moving on to my next point. 

Men are from mars, women from venus, there are differences.  Not just the physically obvious, but emotionally and even down to the way socks are folded.  From those I have observed, these differences, (even the minute ones) are not something to be pushed under the sofa. 

When you read a post by a male, the general composition has a different emotional "tug" then when reading a womans.   Women tend to be much easier led by emotions, (just my observation), probably due to being so "exposed".  

Have you ever read a post and thought..."hmm...that sounds more female then male"...yet the signature is claiming to have balls?   Here, it can get confusing, since the very nature of these forums is open to any and all.   When I read what appears to be something from a Harlequin romance novel, I just assume it's a female, cuz I can't see a bunch of gorean men sitting around a table, discussing how their kisses effect the slave in their life.   It sounds female, something women talk about and pay 3.00 a copy for the latest book with Fabio on the cover.  

Am I wrong?  Maybe I am...perhaps men do chit chat about the reactions of their manly touch, while sharing a pint with the guys.

Just tossing these thoughts out there...  wondering if anyone else has had similar experiences, or... Im just way off base. 

Happy Halloween everyone, :)

Lisa





Greetings,

Men, both here and in the sagas, spend a great deal of time with other guys over a brew talking about the opposite sex. This verbal communication is most likely less refined and polished than any like written one. You will miss-judge them if you judge their writing based on your experiences with men talking together. Also, I'm sure you know that confident men do not do anything just to prove their manhood, including writing in any certain style or lack of emotional "tug". Indeed, the confident true man is filled with a life passion revealed in his writings.

Be well,
Arturas

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RE: Boo! - 11/2/2010 6:45:18 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Greetings

quote:

Men, both here and in the sagas, spend a great deal of time with other guys over a brew talking about the opposite sex. This verbal communication is most likely less refined and polished than any like written one. You will miss-judge them if you judge their writing based on your experiences with men talking together. Also, I'm sure you know that confident men do not do anything just to prove their manhood, including writing in any certain style or lack of emotional "tug". Indeed, the confident true man is filled with a life passion revealed in his writings.


Both sexes talk about the opposite sex, usually it is a rather favored topic. The OP have never claimed anything else. However there is the way that men tend to speak about women and the way women tend to speak about men. Many scientific studies have shown than men tend to use less expressions of emotions when speaking then women do. Most of my friends are male and when they start talking about girls they usually comment of their qualities, their appearance, their intelligence  and so on, hand fast concrete things. Women tend to be more flowery and speak more in metaphors. It is hard to directly describe the difference, but there is a clear difference when I am in a room with men and a room with woman. Most men I know would not describe a desired woman like if he was writing a romance novella, he would more say that she had a great ass, sexy lips and could kick his ass in counterstrike, now if only she could cook she would be perfect. Women tend to be more dreamy in the way they describe a desired man, men tend to be more concrete.

I wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: Boo! - 11/2/2010 8:36:11 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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Precisely Nephandi!

I can only use my experience when I write, but to date I have never been around men who speak in flowery tones.   Well...maybe at the ren faires, but thats another topic!   Shakespeare had a way with words...not always the most manly, :)

When I read what looks to be almost cut and paste from a True Romance novel, I assume a woman is doing the writing.  Since reality is my source of experience, I have to go by what I see.  If any one of the gorean men started reciting love poems or describing milky white mounds that trembled in their prescence...I would think someone smuggled wacky weed into the brownies!  

Even if sexual undertones were removed, men just remain calm, less emotional outbursts, the words are thought out and appear to be matter of factly.  (don't think that is a word, but I like it)  It's harder to push the buttons of a man :)

Thank you for getting what I was trying to convey while hyped up on chocolate!

Lisa


_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

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RE: Boo! - 11/3/2010 1:37:52 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Greetings

I have met many men who have a way with words, and can get rather poetic, however such words from a man in my experience is often different that such words from a woman.

I actually had a similar conversation to this on a forum about role playing games like D&D and such. There are far, far less women playing such games than men, however one gamer lady complained that she felt like she had to do at least twice as good as the men for half the recognition. I told her that I had never experienced such discrimination and what was it that made her think that way. Turned out the problem was a difference between how men and woman communicate. When she presented a very well written character to another female gamer, the other woman would go on and on in often quite emotional language about how good it was, and when she presented a character that did not fit the story or was not good, there would come allot of praise for it anyway and then a apologetic it is great but not exactly what this game need. With male players however at most she would get a good character, for a great one and if what she made was not good enough there would just come a this will not fit the game, make another. Now this gamer lady felt that the good character and nothing more she got from good work was dismissing as it was less praise than she would get for a bad character among women. But I told her that this is how men often communicate, most men will not go on and on about how good your work is, often a simple comment of great character from a man is more a show of recognition than long and flowery praises from a woman.

As for Aswad, in private to me he can sometimes get flowery, but not romance level flowery, in public or online however praise form him or when he discuss me with others seldom comes as more than a few words, or a mention of a practical quality I have, as in for example, I don't know but ask Nephandi about it, she is good with nature therapy.

Another real life example I would like to make was once when my mother had gotten my grandfather a work bench for his birthday. My grandfather was amazing with his hands, he could make and repair about anything, and we know he wished for this work bench with clamps and all sort of nifty functions. But my family is not rich and the bench was expensive. My mother saved up and got it for him, and when she gave it to him my grandfather said nothing, he just walked outside and walked around in the back yard for several minutes and then walked in and gave my mother a simple thank you. He was so moved he could not get his emotions in check and instead of making an emotional outburst he just walked about for a while, we saw that his eyes where not completely dry, and that heartfelt thank you was for me a typical male reaction where a woman might have gone on an on about how great the bench was, how happy she was, how the gift giver should not have given something so expensive, and then some more verbal expression of feeling. Instead my grandfather just walked outside to collect himself and then just saying thank you.

This is actually often a source of conflict between men and women since women express feelings allot more they often will call men cold when they do not. Now I am not saying that no men express feelings and no women holds them inside. I am talking about generalities, and often a man will be more direct, and speak less of feelings and women will be more emotional and speak more in the abstract.

But it seams that I have babbled on for quite some time. I am not on a chocolate hype, but I have not gotten my morning tea yet, perhaps I should go get it. :P

I wish you well.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 2:33:25 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
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Greetings,

So, you think there is identifiable male and female prose because men and women are different and so writing style and composition must also be identifiably different. I also cannot help but feel you think all men should write the way we work out or drink beer. Do you think we are so simple? I would correct you on that perception but this is a man thing and I'd have to kill you if I explained how it really is. So let's instead test your perceptions; which one of these is male prose and which is female prose?

Example 1:
quote:


This warm sultry evening we had the club all to ourselves and two other couples. Tam ended up in the cage. The cage provides a wonderful free form medium for the beautiful damsel forced to provide forbidden pleasures scene. I took a fist full of hair and forced her into the cage with her back toward the door, she instinctively and subtly spread her slim and shapely high heeled legs. (good girl!) Her sexy hot tramp stamp darkly shaded by the cold cage bars served to encourage me. I enjoyed her roughly as I explored the caged damsel scene with her. I could hear her moans and cries and I could feel her body move with her fully unleashed raw passions; I can tell when she is into the scene, she moves fluidly, her breathing is quick and hot and she rewards me with a passion difficult to describe in words. I spanked that pretty ass red in the pale light of the cold dungeon , fisted her wet heat, bite the neck of my captured helpless girl and roughly and publicly penetrated her while she was forced to grab the cage bars and submit to the whim of her overpowering and evil jailer. We were O/one and I finished the session by dragging her to the cot nearby and flogging her and using her to finish servicing my (and her!) desires. I enjoy that scene entirely.
Saturday, on the way to the Mark again, I left her in the Z71 for a few minutes while I went in for some coffee and came out to see a guy frozen in place by the sight of her sitting there in black, hot red lipstick and dress leather collar. Her low top and perfectly revealed cleavage must have helped freeze his ass in place also, I wager



example 2:
quote:

I awoke this evening listening to the haunting and seductive sounds of Celtic voices on Pandora Internet radio softly flowing down the halls of the great house and into my dreams. Beside me sleeping quietly, her hair softly caressing my cheek, lay an angel in collar, the star of my Saga, a CM found submissive beauty who spread her wings. Soon she rises like the morning star and brings a new day to me ... ...but now she lies sleeping beside me, the soft sound of her breathing no longer just a dream in a long night.


Live very well always,
Arturas

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 3:23:51 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline
ohhh...a test!  :)

Honestly, and again, this is based solely on the men I have met...both examples seem a little girly.   The second one being more in line with how I see a woman writing, but both go against anything I have seen written by a male.   

The details and descriptions, the sentence structures, are nothing like anything I have heard from a male.  Now...remember, I am basing my thoughts on men in the flesh, those I know, how they speak when among others in regards to what they own and world issues at hand.  Can there be men whose writing skills would rival the best romance novel on the market?  Why not?   I never said it couldn't be...only that the gorean men I know personally, do not.  This led me to ask on a gorean forum if others felt the same way :)   If there was a definate "style" of writing that seperated men and women.  

Some of the men from this very forum, Bull, Leonidas,Orion, Aswad, just to grab a few...when I read their posts, it is no doubt words from a male.    Could any one of them create flowery prose and seductive story lines?  Sure, but it would come across as un-natural to me.  

Anyway, free time all used up... I'll chew on this awhile while finishing chores, maybe another way to explain my thoughts will come to mind.   Oh...and I threw this link in, because I love Howard Keel...and it smacks of gorean maleness. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkXqTNuNUWk






_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 5:28:07 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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If you look into behavioral sciences, especially in the forensic communication areas, you will find that males and females do indeed write differently. Everything from word usage to sentence structure is often different. There are exceptions of course, there are always exceptions.

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 7:36:58 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Joined: 5/22/2008
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1st one is female because I've never seen a guy use that slashy shit.

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you're just an empty cage, girl
if you kill the bird

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 7:37:15 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

ohhh...a test!  :)

Honestly, and again, this is based solely on the men I have met...both examples seem a little girly.   The second one being more in line with how I see a woman writing, but both go against anything I have seen written by a male.   

The details and descriptions, the sentence structures, are nothing like anything I have heard from a male.  Now...remember, I am basing my thoughts on men in the flesh, those I know, how they speak when among others in regards to what they own and world issues at hand.  Can there be men whose writing skills would rival the best romance novel on the market?  Why not?   I never said it couldn't be...only that the gorean men I know personally, do not.  This led me to ask on a gorean forum if others felt the same way :)   If there was a definate "style" of writing that seperated men and women.  

Some of the men from this very forum, Bull, Leonidas,Orion, Aswad, just to grab a few...when I read their posts, it is no doubt words from a male.    Could any one of them create flowery prose and seductive story lines?  Sure, but it would come across as un-natural to me.  

Anyway, free time all used up... I'll chew on this awhile while finishing chores, maybe another way to explain my thoughts will come to mind.   Oh...and I threw this link in, because I love Howard Keel...and it smacks of gorean maleness. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkXqTNuNUWk








Greetings Lisa,

That response is interesting. They are from the same male.

Here are some others from the same males.

Example 1
quote:

Come then, my love; my darling, come with me. The winter is over; the rains have stopped; in the countryside the flowers are in bloom?

King Solomon

Example 2
quote:

Stupid people have no respect for wisdom and refuse to learn

King Solomon
(sounds gorean to me)

Example 3
quote:

I then took her in my arms. Later we lay quietly, softly, together. Her head was at my waist. I then looked at the ceiling of the alcove, at the roughened texture, and the tiny cracks, of its plaster and wood, redish in the flickering light of the tiny lamp.

John Norman

Example 4
quote:

The hall echos with the sound of laughter and love and and the soft steps of my star as she draws ever near to Me again and forever more."

Arturas

Example 5
quote:

I released her hair and took her again in my arms, throwing the chain back over her shoulder.

John Norman

Example 6
quote:

I took a fist full of hair and forced her into the cage with her back toward the door
,
Arturas

"Flowers in bloom", a bit "girlish" you might have said if I had left out the writer's name. Of course you know him as a great classical man, he is said to be a great King and the wisest man ever known; perhaps the greatest in history. He writes of flowers and his passion for his love and his life in the Song of Solomon. I believe men and women are perfectly capable of writing the same way of shared passions and that many gorean men as well as a great king are in touch with their feminine side and are greater for it.

Live very well always,
Arturas

< Message edited by Arturas -- 11/4/2010 7:53:12 PM >

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 7:50:43 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

1st one is female because I've never seen a guy use that slashy shit.



Greetings Elisabella,

Consider, we are not separate male or female at that point, we are joined as Master and slave, we are "O/one". I intentionally used the "slashy shit" because it means something here: Master and slave joined in the common vernacular.

Live well,
Arturas

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 7:53:15 PM   
Elisabella


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Joined: 5/22/2008
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So neither of them were female? I don't understand the "which is which" question then.

_____________________________

you're just an empty cage, girl
if you kill the bird

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 8:00:00 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline
Greetings

Look at any forum, let us move away from kink and relationships and into something like discussions of movies.Let us say a group of people where discussing the new Nightmare on Elm Street Film. Now two people in the group did not like the movie, the others enjoyed it. Let us call out two dissidents Frank and Jane.

Now Frank would be more likely to be more straight forward in saying that he did not like the film. For example saying something like this.

I am sick and tired of the constant remakes of old horror films. Sure the effects are good, but the movie is flat and dumb and just lack the good storytelling of previous movies in the series.

Jane would normally be more concerned about not insulting the majority of the group who liked the film and might say it like this.

"The movie looked great, and the costumes where good, and I did enjoy the film, though for me I think the film might lack a little substance compared to the others, but that is just how I feel.

Now this is not now Lisa, me or anyone elses expect men to write, it just tend to be like that. Is this always the case, hell no there are allot of individual differences, but on general if you go to any forum, you will find that women use words like I think, I feel, maybe and so on far more, while men tend to be more direct.

Now unlike Lisa I do not think it is unmanly to speak in terms of roses and moonlight, perhaps because I am  both an occultist and a goth and I think a man can write as flowery as a woman and it would still not be girly, however there is even done scientific research on the fact that male communication, even female communication tend to be more direct, and more demanding if that is the right word for it than women's communication.

Be Well


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 8:05:04 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

So neither of them were female? I don't understand the "which is which" question then.


Greetings Elisabella,

The wording of this question did not guarantee they were of different genders although it did lead in that direction.

Be well,
Arturas.

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 8:10:03 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline
Quick reply in between laundry.....

I notice similarity between your writing style and John Normans....he was writing fiction.   I was speaking about reality, discussing things between men of the same caliber (gorean).  

quote:

Come then, my love; my darling, come with me. The winter is over; the rains have stopped; in the countryside the flowers are in bloom?


King Solomon.  He is not writing as your first examples, giving vivid descriptions of female responses to his touch and prescence.  I have never heard men discuss how their touch affects a woman, going so far as to elaborate in detail the physical changes, (trembling, breath, etc).   King Solomon is describing countryside, a bit of a difference.  Plus, he isn't talking among men, or on a message forum where other men read...it's a conversation between himself and a woman he loves. 

I think you misunderstand me.  I am not saying men aren't capable of writing flowery verses, that would be silly, since I happen to know quite a bit about Shakespeare and poets of that particular time period. 

I am saying...that I notice a marked difference between the sexes in writing style (and speaking mannerisms), among those who live under the gorean mantle. 

And yes, that slashy speak stuff is most definately girly!  

Ok, back to the grind. :)  





_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 8:24:35 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7329
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Just one of many studies that can be easily found:

"In conclusion, therefore, there is undeniably a gender difference in styles in e-mail messages posted to electronic discussion groups: males are more prone to write in an aggressive, competitive style, while women tend to be far more supportive in their writing. The male/female language style dichotomy has been transported into computer communication regardless of the lack of physical contact."

http://iteslj.org/Articles/Rossetti-GenderDif.html

_____________________________

Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.


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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 8:33:28 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline
Thank you for the link Orion,  I'm heading there now :)

Lisa

_____________________________

"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

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RE: Boo! - 11/4/2010 8:50:52 PM   
MAWarGod


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/6/2007
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Greetings Lisa

~FR~ Awesome post you had me thinking on this.. I may come back and post when I am more focused and have read more of Orion link..


Greetings Orion
~FR~ Thank You for sharing that link..

I wish You well
Robert


_____________________________

enjoying My permanent Vanilla cone!!

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