Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I suppoose.

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Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I suppoose.

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Polyamorous Lifestyles >> Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I suppoose.

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Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I suppoose. - 11/8/2010 6:47:54 PM

SilverPacifier

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Joined: 11/8/2010
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I am, in no way, contemplating the destruction of religious practices. But, I am questioning why polygamy (when the prospect of marriage comes up) must remain illegal, even when the law behind it is just another religious quack of injustice.

Am I a polygamous? No.
Do I care for polygamy in anyway? Not really.
Do I care that the government still will not allow individuals to marry (because there's more than two)? Yep.
Why? Because it's some B.S, that should have been dealt with a long time ago.

Now, I understand that when a man marries a woman (knowing full well that he's already married to another), and having not told either party about it is completely immoral. But, I don't think it should be illegal. Basically just cheating, with papers. But, I'm losing my head....

To end this, I hate our government. The End.

Post #: 1

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/8/2010 7:02:36 PM

AquaticSub

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~Fast Reply~

You know, this one really isn't something where you should be hating the government. If you were going to hate someone over this, it should be our culture. We (overall) elect leaders based on what we want to see happen. The idea of two men or two women marrying is JUST starting to get some headway but for every three steps forward, it's two steps back. I highly doubt 2+ marriages are ever going to really happen until that does. And when/if it does, it's going to be a long battle because some of the people who practice this aren't exactly... media friendly. Media influences opinion, opinions make votes, politications need those votes.

Even if the politications wanted to make polygamy and polamory marriages an option, I don't know of a single county or state whose votes would, in any sizable number, support that. It would defeat the point of serving the community that elected them until society's opinions have changed.

My .02

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(in reply to SilverPacifier)

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RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/9/2010 7:23:48 AM

LadyPact

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I'm not a polygamist. Let's take that off of the table from the start.

What I am is a polyamorous person who is both not especially thrilled with some of the legal issues that we have to address. I'm also someone who doesn't particularly have a good solution to the problem that can also understand the potential quagmire that could be created if we don't recognize the issues properly. It really isn't just an issue of changing laws. It's also looking at how those laws will apply, not only when people create a poly family that is a success, but also consider how to best manage those situations when we fail. This is automatically going to be more complicated than divorce law simply because of the fact that a poly situation will have more concerned parties.

I happen to believe that Aqua is correct in saying that it's not going to be poly people who will be first in this area. We might make headway once the non-heterosexual community gets over the hurdle. I really don't see it happening for us until it's already happened for them.

_____________________________

"Come to the edge, She said.
He said that he was afraid.
Come to the edge, She said.
He came. She pushed him,
And he flew . . ."

http://NE2010.net

Now running "Lady Pact's World".

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 3

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/9/2010 7:47:53 AM

DarkSteven

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Feel better, OP?

Actually, religion has classically not opposed poly. It is practiced in Muslim cultures in modern times (men get killed in war, laving an excess of women), and the levirate is a commitment to poly under ancient Judaism. In modern times, Mormonism had poly as one of its tenets, and still endorses polygamy in the afterlife.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 11/9/2010 7:50:27 AM >

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/9/2010 8:56:24 PM

dory007

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i totally agree that the government needs to get out of the marriage business. marriage licenses weren't required until the around the turn of the last century to keep white women from marrying back men. After those anti inter-racial marriage laws were deemed unconstitutional, the government decided to keep marriage licensing so they could keep their dirty little paws in our lives and the lives of our children.

(in reply to SilverPacifier)

Post #: 5

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/9/2010 11:24:28 PM

subkatslut

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I am in agreement with Ladypact. While I feel strongly that the business of marriage doesn't belong in the government's hands or religion's hands for that matter it still is opening up a massive can of worms with all sorts of legal issues. It's difficult enough with 2 people involved and any children. Each person you add to that mix along with any other children compound things immensely not only when things fail but even in the success stories.

You would be creating a nightmare in which there were many situations where there was no easy or good answer. Having uniformity with laws would be next to impossible and the courts would be so backed up they'd be a joke.

Does it work in other countries or in certain religious sects? I suppose but their society and own moral views are very different then ours currently. To inject that into our society here would be disastrous.

(in reply to dory007)

Post #: 6

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/10/2010 6:53:23 AM

LadyPact

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Just a word here. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think it's impossible or not something that I would hope to see happen. What I'm saying is that we have to have a 'play the tape to the end' approach to it. Reasonably, we have to look at more than just say as many people can be involved in a marriage or civil union as they would like. We have to look at it from not just the changing of that one premise, but all of the other legalities that apply. That's a lot of ground to cover. I just feel that there is a lot more to it than saying ok, everybody can do it.

_____________________________

"Come to the edge, She said.
He said that he was afraid.
Come to the edge, She said.
He came. She pushed him,
And he flew . . ."

http://NE2010.net

Now running "Lady Pact's World".

(in reply to subkatslut)

Post #: 7

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/10/2010 7:31:19 AM

dory007

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but why should government be involved in personal and/or religious matters? and why should it make even more laws to govern our lives by legalizing polygamy and then regulating it in some way? there are already plenty of laws concerning custody issues and child support.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 8

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/10/2010 8:18:02 AM

LadyPact

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In My opinion, the truth is that we already invited the interference. With justification, I might add. We, as human beings, don't exactly have a good track record with being able to handle these matters. That's why the laws are on the books in the first place. It would be great if we were reasonable people when we choose to dissolve a marriage, but the truth is that we're not. Some of us already make it such a ridiculous process that there's been no choice but for certain government agencies to intervene. We've got a proven track record with this. In fact, if you don't know someone personally who has never had to call a cop or sit in divorce court because of the way people treat each other during the course of some of the ugliness that can come up, I'd say you were a rare breed.

It's not even just the creating and dissolving of such unions that complicates the matter. Steven mentioned insurance on another thread. I'd probably add probate disputes in there as well. When people can't manage to solve these situation amicably, they will be in court because they can't resolve the issues between themselves. That is asking government to be a part of it, whether we like it or not.

_____________________________

"Come to the edge, She said.
He said that he was afraid.
Come to the edge, She said.
He came. She pushed him,
And he flew . . ."

http://NE2010.net

Now running "Lady Pact's World".

(in reply to dory007)

Post #: 9

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/11/2010 6:07:34 AM

DMFParadox

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dory007

but why should government be involved in personal and/or religious matters?

If you can think of a society as a single organism - and in some ways, it is - then you'll note that the societies with 'victorian' values regarding marriage totally dominated societies with polygamy.

I'm not sure exactly of the reasons why. On an individual level, I'm all for a law that lets me have a harem. On the other hand, the answer to your question is that governments that have this law do better than ones that don't.

I can speculate until the cows come home about why's, and whether it's actually polygamy that weakens a society or if there were corollary effects that are masked by the big, attention-getting issues; but when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter. Such changes as you're proposing would require revolution or many decades of evolution, most likely.

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(in reply to dory007)

Post #: 10

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/11/2010 8:05:53 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

.........In modern times, Mormonism had poly as one of its tenets, and still endorses polygamy in the afterlife.

And there is still a segment of Mormons practicing polygamy in the here and now.

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RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/11/2010 4:50:05 PM

dory007

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Joined: 7/2/2009
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polygamy is still practiced in evangelical Christians (illegally in the states but somewhat outspokenly and legally in Africa and the Middle-east), the Amish (very quietly) non American or European Jews (IE middle-eastern Jews), Islam, Hinduism and many other religions. Greek and Roman culture outlawed polygamy and since Roman culture invaded the church, brought the concept of "the only right way" of monogamy (at least in the legality of only marrying one person at time) into main stream Christianity and to Western culture.

(in reply to hlen5)

Post #: 12

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/11/2010 6:16:04 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

.........In modern times, Mormonism had poly as one of its tenets, and still endorses polygamy in the afterlife.

And there is still a segment of Mormons practicing polygamy in the here and now.

Sorta. The Mormon church is officially against polygamy. The religions that do practice it are not mainstream LDS, but the splinter groups.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to hlen5)

Post #: 13

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/11/2010 9:44:39 PM

lev

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the original Mormon church taught polygamy and that having 3 wives insured a higher status of godhood in the afterlife. Main stream Mormon Church changed their doctrine in order for Utah to be come a state. The splinter groups consider themselves to be fundamentalists in that they keep the old doctrine.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 14

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/11/2010 9:48:19 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 27136
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

quote:

ORIGINAL: dory007

but why should government be involved in personal and/or religious matters?

If you can think of a society as a single organism - and in some ways, it is - then you'll note that the societies with 'victorian' values regarding marriage totally dominated societies with polygamy.

I'm not sure exactly of the reasons why. On an individual level, I'm all for a law that lets me have a harem. On the other hand, the answer to your question is that governments that have this law do better than ones that don't.

I can speculate until the cows come home about why's, and whether it's actually polygamy that weakens a society or if there were corollary effects that are masked by the big, attention-getting issues; but when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter. Such changes as you're proposing would require revolution or many decades of evolution, most likely.

The reasons behind it had to do with the children... heirs and estates, ect.

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(in reply to DMFParadox)

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RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/12/2010 4:12:36 PM

slave2train4pain

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Joined: 2/21/2009
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I think society is looking at the issue of how many people are in a relationship and gay marriage to a lesser point of cost. I am for any number and sexes you want but let me play the devils advocate here. 100 years ago women had a hard time earning a living. Since most IMHO Poly families are 1 man and 2 or more women right or wrong they were "looking out" for the women and children. I was born in 1956 and when I went to school very few married women in neighbor hood worked. Now I would guess 95% or more do. Now that women can earn a good living multi partner relationships are going to be look at differantly. I hadf a 19 and 1/2 relationship, marrage in every way, who decided after his liver transplant that we should seperate. He was 2 years older than I and alway's made 4 to 5 times what I did working. If straight I would be a "trailing" spouse. If he got a better job offer I would just move with him. I workrd in Fast Food Managment or Customer Service so I could always find a job. Because of his illness we both had to file bankruptcy and our savings disappeared. His life after we broke up changed, financially very little. Mine to a definte downwardly mobile since I has jobs not a career. I would never again put myself or advise anyone to not set a certain amount aside in case that happens. I would join a Poly household and give it most of my income but I would set aside an amount in case it happened again.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 11/29/2010 8:27:59 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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I agree with LP here. AS to the issues of a poly home becoming legal as far as multiple marriages goes, personally I believe that here in Australia, this will happen about the same time when they legalize pot and agree to allow everyone to grow their own. OR when hell freezes over (Which ever comes first). I am, however a great believer in the separation of Church and State which is why I am opposed to any Religious group trying to field their own political party (I.E. the Family First party here which is financially supported by The Assemblies of God who would start burning lesbians and witches at the stake again.)

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(in reply to slave2train4pain)

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RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 12/2/2010 6:10:49 PM

cavaleirojustica

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Just to state a thing: The bible itself is not against lesbinism or polygyny (it IS against gay intercourse and women with more than one men), but people usually follow other people, and not the god (whatever one it is) that they claim to follow.

If you get what I mean.

Thus, Poly being illegal is mostly a man issue, god (whatever one you believe) has nothing to do with it.

Btw: The best way to "unconvert" a christian is show him things on the bible that he is personally against. You won't even need to use any other argument. (of course that don't work on people that use a different bible, or believe that the bible is not absolute, like the followers of Helen White, Mormons, Jeovah Withnesses...)

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 18

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 12/3/2010 6:11:26 AM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cavaleirojustica

Btw: The best way to "unconvert" a christian is show him things on the bible that he is personally against. You won't even need to use any other argument. (of course that don't work on people that use a different bible, or believe that the bible is not absolute, like the followers of Helen White, Mormons, Jeovah Withnesses...)

quote:

Btw: The best way to "unconvert" a christian is show him things on the bible that he is personally against. You won't even need to use any other argument. (of course that don't work on people that use a different bible, or believe that the bible is not absolute, like the followers of Helen White, Mormons, Jeovah Withnesses...)

Well said! In decades past I have taken great pleasure in seducing women who were anal about sex etc and who hid behind their region. I oft included many BDSM bed room practices in this seduction. I'd have to say that "un-converted" females have been some of the most exciting sex I have ever experienced.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to cavaleirojustica)

Post #: 19

RE: Illegal, huh? ...God is involved in this too I supp... - 12/4/2010 9:08:08 AM

liks2plzlf

Posts: 388
Joined: 7/21/2005
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I don't see a problem with the post. So why do you want to marry more than one, other than for some legal reasons already mentioned. There is no law that says you have to get married, so why not just have as many girlfrliends as you wish or consensual slaves. I don't understand why you would marry them. If I marry a woman it is because I only want to be with her, and her only, I have no desire for another one.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 20

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