RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers eyes....

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/27/2010 10:10:44 PM

Arturas

Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

The problem seems to be that you assume Lisa whether or not we actually care if one more person becomes Gorean or not.

If they cant be bothered to read the books, cant be bothered to ask the questions themselves, and cant be bothered to spend time understanding why we say the things we do then why on earth should we be bothered about if they want to become Gorean or not anyway?

To quote Rhett Butler....well you get the idea.

Cheryl

Tal Cheryl,

Well. There it is, the reason why "gor is dead", lady Cheryl. It strikes me as a bit unreasonable to ask "them" to read the books at a fairly large cost in time and money, especially in this financial climate, if the only reason you present is to give "us" a reason to be bothered if they become Gorean or not. I am certain that leaves "them" with little incentive and you and I soon crying to anyone who will listen about walking the halls of empty gorean websites.

Is this level of "don't care" inherent in gorean morality? It is if there is no profit in it for you but it is more profitable to you to be a positive example in anything you are passionate about; profitable to you and to those who choose to follow your lead. There is much to be positive as a gorean. Goreans should be natural great examples of womanhood and manhood foremost. So great an example that gor books would fly off the shelve.

You are a great example of gorean womanhood. I suspect you could talk about your great passion for gorean and other art, for living a life that makes you happy and how reading and understanding the sagas helped you be a success as only you measure success. You could, instead of this last fairly negative posting, write how gorean philosophy helped you or someone else overcome your human weaknesses through control of negative thoughts and passions and helped you obtain mastery of yourself in achieving life goals. You could and I could write of never being afraid to attempt something out of the box as long as you try your best because goreans believe less in kajira positions and more that failure in any life endeavor is not a bad thing as long as you are fearless in the attempt. Write of goreans achieving control of one's destiny and why a love in simplicity and harmony with the rules of nature are important to a gorean.

It takes great leadership and examples to keep any entity or concept alive and people are either leaders or followers. Negative leaders are soon ignored. Positive leaders are in demand. It takes trusted positive and capable people to lead so I will turn positive here and hope to gain your trust someday by example: I know you and a few others are so very talented and knowledgeable and well versed in "everything gorean" and so very capable of providing the positive example and leadership needed to prevent Gor from "dying". I know that Cheryl and others here have the will and strength necessary to lead rather than follow others to a gorean funeral pyre. I look forward to a revitalized and noble living Gor under the leadership of those who shine as sterling examples of woman and manhood in an ever darkening world. Those are the "true" goreans.

Live well,
Arturas

< Message edited by Arturas -- 11/27/2010 10:12:18 PM >

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/28/2010 12:49:16 AM

RossDaniels

Posts: 18
Joined: 9/14/2007
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Gor certainly isn't dead.

Leaving aside the philosophy (whatever it may be), some people just love Gor, so they live it. You don't need to read all 29 books to do that. On the other hand, if you want to start learning about Gor, the books are easy to find these days. It only takes a couple of clicks to order the audiobooks on iTunes.

< Message edited by RossDaniels -- 11/28/2010 1:38:07 AM >

(in reply to Arturas)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/28/2010 3:36:03 AM

Cherylmazana

Posts: 1151
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Hi Arturas

I don’t come here to be a positive role-model or to show anyone how wonderful things are, I am here to discuss with Goreans and those interested in Gorean things, that’s all.

I am not part of some religion who wants new converts, or cult who wants to brainwash people into joining, I am interested in those who already know what they want and who they are and who want to explore things more.

As for the cost, well my second hand bookshop has many of the early books at under £1, the internet has them all at reasonable prices, and if they can’t be bothered to spend the time reading, you can buy audio books that you can listen to while driving to work. As for those who don’t want to read or listen, why on earth should I waste my time on them when they can’t be bothered.

I do not wish to be a slave to some nameless group of people by giving them the Great Gorean Primer, you can if you wish, best of luck, myself I have a life to live. Go be that Great Fearless Leader and see just how much those nameless hordes will take and take and take without any thought of repaying, I am not that stupid and have no need to stoke my ego by trying to be anything other than what I am.

Cheryl

_____________________________

Sometimes just because it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, doesn’t mean it is a duck, it could instead be a plastic replica that leads ducks to their ruin.

(in reply to RossDaniels)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/28/2010 8:47:31 PM

Awareness

Posts: 1297
Joined: 9/8/2010
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I'm not Gorean, although I do play one on TV.

Just kidding. My response is basically "Does it matter?"

From what I can gather, these people have had a successful M/s style relationship going well for a good number of years. What they call it is irrelevant and whether they're quickly ushered into the halls of Goredom is likewise irrelevant. Point them in the direction of the books and any sane, normal Gorean couples you know and let them work it out. Loons and dysfunctional types are overrepresented on the 'Net so any online forum is not necessarily a good introduction.

As for the decline or otherwise of Gor, does anyone really worry about this stuff? Sometimes philosophical movements are for a specific time; sometimes they have a half-life somewhat shorter than some might wish; sometimes fringe culture shifts to the centre and social mores expand to absorb them. 25 years ago, identifying as a bisexual woman would raise some eyebrows - these days almost nobody even blinks. You can't aver a wish to evangelise the philosophy, while simultaneously bemoaning the drop in membership of the Gorean community. Ultimately, it's a meme set which will thrive or die depending entirely upon the attributes which make it fit for replication.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/28/2010 10:42:22 PM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1072
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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First, thank you to everyone who took the time to write, I have read each and every response, though was not allowed to respond.   Appreciations are another thing, and I felt it rude to not show mine.   (I had to do some begging to get this done, and the chocolate cake didn't hurt)

My intent was not to come into the gorean section and tell everyone, "hey, this is confusing, something needs to be changed".   Nor am I on the street corner handing out pamphlets to strangers, recruiting people for a gorean life. I apologize, as that is how it came across.

Sometimes...I tend to want to help too much, which doesn't allow the one I am helping to make their own mistakes or take chances while learning. some things people just have to do themselves. This section is by goreans, for goreans, it is run how the goreans wish it to be run. I had no business saying anything to the contrary.

Again, thank you.

Lisa...

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"Harry Potter is all about confronting fears, finding inner strength and doing what is right in the face of adversity. Twilight, is all about how important it is to have a boyfriend"
--- Stephen King

(in reply to Awareness)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/29/2010 7:02:12 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2104
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet
Why wouldn't Christian websites and message boards be confusing?

etc.

Which is a good point- one I should have clarified-
If anyone wanted to learn "what Christianity is about", they would never learn anything simply by reading the Bible; all the Christian religions read the same books, and come to wildly different conclusions. Same with Goreans.

But even in the books themselves, the planet Gor was comprised of many different cultures, believing different things, having different manners and mores.

So while I agree people should read the books, the notion that simply reading them will produce a clear understanding of Gor isn't likely. Or I should say, it won't produce a consistent understanding.

(in reply to eponavet)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/29/2010 7:10:50 PM

Dinnardin

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Joined: 1/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet
Why wouldn't Christian websites and message boards be confusing?

etc.

Which is a good point- one I should have clarified-
If anyone wanted to learn "what Christianity is about", they would never learn anything simply by reading the Bible; all the Christian religions read the same books, and come to wildly different conclusions. Same with Goreans.

But even in the books themselves, the planet Gor was comprised of many different cultures, believing different things, having different manners and mores.

So while I agree people should read the books, the notion that simply reading them will produce a clear understanding of Gor isn't likely. Or I should say, it won't produce a consistent understanding.

This is the basic point we all are trying to make....reading the Bible will not teach you to be Christian....but it will give you the basic background information you need to truly be able to begin to learn to be Christian. Likewise, the mere act of reading the Gor novels will not teach you to be Gorean...but they will give you a basis and base from which to learn. You would not, I hope, attempt surgery without some training in medicine, nor would you try to reprogram a computer, without reading some of the literature on that....why do you think you should not also start by reading the Gor books, as a start towards becoming Gorean?

John, AKA Dinnaardin

(in reply to AnimusRex)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/30/2010 12:09:51 AM

Awareness

Posts: 1297
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
So while I agree people should read the books, the notion that simply reading them will produce a clear understanding of Gor isn't likely. Or I should say, it won't produce a consistent understanding.

That doesn't follow. What it won't produce is a consistently agreed understanding. That's hardly relevant. You've got broad philosophical principles and whether everyone gets the same view of the Gorean lifestyle from reading the books is hardly a problem unless you're aggressively trying to promote a particular view as canon.

If you're not, then it's all good. You end up with a shared vocabulary, a shared set of philosophical ideas and a framework for subsequent discussion and interaction. That's all you can reasonably expect in a world full of flawed human beings, each with their own lens of perception.

(in reply to AnimusRex)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/30/2010 2:15:56 AM

Cherylmazana

Posts: 1151
Joined: 10/4/2007
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Hi Lisa, its ok , the question gets asked many times why don’t we help more, or why are we so unfriendly. And I suspect that most of us know quite well what we look like to outsiders, Gorean message boards tend to have an unfriendly feel to them, most stay away unless they have either a burning desire to know more or extreme masochistic tendencies , hummm sometimes both.

It’s interesting that you mention wanting to help too much, I suspect that’s a very submissive type of thing, that need to help and show others. It’s also a trait that can cause problems and even sometimes do harm, but no harm done here, and maybe even some good, as it gave us an excuse to say why we are the way we are.

Cheryl

_____________________________

Sometimes just because it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, doesn’t mean it is a duck, it could instead be a plastic replica that leads ducks to their ruin.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

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RE: I never took the time to view this through anothers... - 11/30/2010 11:45:31 AM

Arturas

Posts: 1332
Joined: 2/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

Hi Arturas

I don’t come here to be a positive role-model or to show anyone how wonderful things are, I am here to discuss with Goreans and those interested in Gorean things, that’s all.

I am not part of some religion who wants new converts, or cult who wants to brainwash people into joining, I am interested in those who already know what they want and who they are and who want to explore things more.

As for the cost, well my second hand bookshop has many of the early books at under £1, the internet has them all at reasonable prices, and if they can’t be bothered to spend the time reading, you can buy audio books that you can listen to while driving to work. As for those who don’t want to read or listen, why on earth should I waste my time on them when they can’t be bothered.

I do not wish to be a slave to some nameless group of people by giving them the Great Gorean Primer, you can if you wish, best of luck, myself I have a life to live. Go be that Great Fearless Leader and see just how much those nameless hordes will take and take and take without any thought of repaying, I am not that stupid and have no need to stoke my ego by trying to be anything other than what I am.

Cheryl

Consider. Ignoring the obvious fact that many cannot make such an investment without sacrifce and that such sacrifice will not seem to be a good decision to any rational person without obvious concrete benefit other than they must do so to participate well in online gorean conversations. If participating in online conversations is the sole goal in being gorean then I understand why most do not rush right out and buy the books.

But of course that is not the goal and so I have provided some reasons in my earlier post to you and I can expound on them to anyone interested if they write us. Expounding on them costs nothing because it is truth and truth costs nothing where lies cost everything. I live in truth and indeed, growing myself and others in the truths so we add strength to each other and the "Gor" living within us is the goal. We all do want to add to "gor" rather than lament it's death constantly.

So, I will not shy away doing what is necessary in this leadership vacumn and am indeed open to anyone writing me about the positive impact this has had on my and star's life. Gor is indeed alive in my house and the cost to share these concrete benefits to me are nothing comparied by what I gain in doing so. After sharing these truths then and only then I can look a person in the eyes and tell them they can gain more from reading the books themselves.

I wish all well,
The House Arturas.

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

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