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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior?


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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 2:37:12 PM   
AlluringArtist


Posts: 11
Joined: 11/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I have a more questions than answers. I understand that you met this couple online... but did it ever evolve beyond the online environment and if so...when did that occur. You talk about being committed to him as a monogamist... but when did you do that... was it after you met them? When did you make such a commitment? How much of them did you know about them?


I had known the couple for about 5 months when I decided to establish a romantic relationship and at that time, I made the commitment. I was still new to the idea of there being more than the two of us involved and I was of the understanding that there was myself and his wife (his wife also has another male partner who wasn't involved in any of this, but knew about me). I knew I had a long way to go with being in such a different relationship (different for me that is) and so I chose to not date anyone else during that time. I was primarily in a romantic relationship with the husband, and he was aware of my personal commitment.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I am confused what kind of relationship the three of you had in the first place..... and maybe you can explain it... because I really think you are leaving alot out that would affect how people see your given situation.

I do know that if some is going to become a life partner to me... they will have full disclosure from me. But what was your relationship?... It seems strange that he was looking to have this other girl move in with him and I wonder was this an options for the two of you?


I don't know that there's really anything more to explain. I think you're confusing this with some sort of D/s relationship - and that's not what it was. Besides the poly dynamic, it was your regular, every day romantic relationship. I think what really bothers me the most, was that not only was it never mentioned that he was also in a relationship with someone beside his wife, but said woman was completely informed about me. Like I said in another post, perhaps given that he'd known her longer, he felt it made sense to tell her. But I don't think it's fair to have not fully disclosed to me all that I was getting into. I befriended and interacted almost daily with this other woman online just as I do many other people every day.

As for whether or not me moving there was an option - I don't know. We'd never discussed it. I don't feel like we'd reached that point.


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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 2:45:14 PM   
AlluringArtist


Posts: 11
Joined: 11/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

~FR~
I think it's a really really good idea to discuss and agree ahead of time on the degree of openness and honesty expected, and not just assume. Even then, things don't always work out the way they're "supposed to." My former Dom & I discussed everything ahead of time re: transparency, honesty, closed/open poly, etc and so on and, being the online member of the family, I was still the last to know when someone had joined the family and was moving in. I think sometimes (or maybe I am wrong....) online "members of the family" are intentionally left out of the loop.

~sweetsub~


You're right. It was wrong of me to assume. I just... I guess I didn't see any reason to think that there was potentially someone other than he and his wife that I would be dealing with. I know someone will read this and say "Really? He's poly and you didn't think there may be someone else?" lol But honestly... really, I didn't. I expected transparency.

He and I have talked a good deal about the situation since. I have no plans to re-enter a relationship beyond friendship with him and I think we both realize that we had different expectations. He's agreed that he needed to have been more forthcoming.

This woman is an online relationship as well by the way. He and his wife have known her for a little longer than they have known me. I don't know when they began talk of her potentially moving in. She actually lives in my state, a couple of hours away from me and they live in another. I only found out about it this past week.

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 2:48:44 PM   
January


Posts: 890
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't know that there's really anything more to explain. I think you're confusing this with some sort of D/s relationship - and that's not what it was. Besides the poly dynamic, it was your regular, every day romantic relationship.


Was this relationship online only?

January

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 3:48:36 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 20705
Joined: 2/21/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlluringArtist
I don't know that there's really anything more to explain. I think you're confusing this with some sort of D/s relationship - and that's not what it was. Besides the poly dynamic, it was your regular, every day romantic relationship. I think what really bothers me the most, was that not only was it never mentioned that he was also in a relationship with someone beside his wife, but said woman was completely informed about me. Like I said in another post, perhaps given that he'd known her longer, he felt it made sense to tell her. But I don't think it's fair to have not fully disclosed to me all that I was getting into. I befriended and interacted almost daily with this other woman online just as I do many other people every day.

As for whether or not me moving there was an option - I don't know. We'd never discussed it. I don't feel like we'd reached that point.

The highlighted above and the other info have Me thinking the reason behind it had to do with her potentially being real life rather than online.  At least, it seems like that relationship was going in that direction.  If the other gal was going to be in his physical world, thing is, he's in a position of having to explain his time on the computer with you.  By default, real world relationships tend to have a higher priority because the person's sitting in the same house and they notice things like computer chats.  So, I'm actually not all that surprised that she knew all about you if she and he were getting to the real world stage.



_____________________________

"Come to the edge, She said.
He said that he was afraid.
Come to the edge, She said.
He came. She pushed him,
And he flew . . ."


http://NE2010.net

Now running "Lady Pact's World".

(in reply to AlluringArtist)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 10:55:45 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 6464
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlluringArtist


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I have a more questions than answers. I understand that you met this couple online... but did it ever evolve beyond the online environment and if so...when did that occur. You talk about being committed to him as a monogamist... but when did you do that... was it after you met them? When did you make such a commitment? How much of them did you know about them?


I had known the couple for about 5 months when I decided to establish a romantic relationship and at that time, I made the commitment. I was still new to the idea of there being more than the two of us involved and I was of the understanding that there was myself and his wife (his wife also has another male partner who wasn't involved in any of this, but knew about me). I knew I had a long way to go with being in such a different relationship (different for me that is) and so I chose to not date anyone else during that time. I was primarily in a romantic relationship with the husband, and he was aware of my personal commitment.



but you never did answer if you met them in person.... did this relationship move beyond the online... you haven't been very clear on that fact one way or the other. How much time did you spend with them interacting.......

What was the eventually plan beyong "Dating".... Because at present.... that is all I am seeing that was happening here.... was there any goals to live together was their any arrangement that all?




quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I am confused what kind of relationship the three of you had in the first place..... and maybe you can explain it... because I really think you are leaving alot out that would affect how people see your given situation.

I do know that if some is going to become a life partner to me... they will have full disclosure from me. But what was your relationship?... It seems strange that he was looking to have this other girl move in with him and I wonder was this an options for the two of you?


I don't know that there's really anything more to explain. I think you're confusing this with some sort of D/s relationship - and that's not what it was. Besides the poly dynamic, it was your regular, every day romantic relationship. I think what really bothers me the most, was that not only was it never mentioned that he was also in a relationship with someone beside his wife, but said woman was completely informed about me. Like I said in another post, perhaps given that he'd known her longer, he felt it made sense to tell her. But I don't think it's fair to have not fully disclosed to me all that I was getting into. I befriended and interacted almost daily with this other woman online just as I do many other people every day.

As for whether or not me moving there was an option - I don't know. We'd never discussed it. I don't feel like we'd reached that point.



No.. I am not confusing this with some sort of D/s relationship... The problem is.. you made some sort of commitment..... but I don't see where he made any such committment based on what you are saying! Secondly.... when you made this commitment to him.... did you establish clearly what expectations came with that commitment...... It seems like you made some assumptions on some expectations are paying the price for those assumptions.

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 11:00:04 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 6464
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlluringArtist
I don't know that there's really anything more to explain. I think you're confusing this with some sort of D/s relationship - and that's not what it was. Besides the poly dynamic, it was your regular, every day romantic relationship. I think what really bothers me the most, was that not only was it never mentioned that he was also in a relationship with someone beside his wife, but said woman was completely informed about me. Like I said in another post, perhaps given that he'd known her longer, he felt it made sense to tell her. But I don't think it's fair to have not fully disclosed to me all that I was getting into. I befriended and interacted almost daily with this other woman online just as I do many other people every day.

As for whether or not me moving there was an option - I don't know. We'd never discussed it. I don't feel like we'd reached that point.

The highlighted above and the other info have Me thinking the reason behind it had to do with her potentially being real life rather than online.  At least, it seems like that relationship was going in that direction.  If the other gal was going to be in his physical world, thing is, he's in a position of having to explain his time on the computer with you.  By default, real world relationships tend to have a higher priority because the person's sitting in the same house and they notice things like computer chats.  So, I'm actually not all that surprised that she knew all about you if she and he were getting to the real world stage.





I would tend to agree with you on this LadyPact...... but of course.... it is rather unclear if this was only online or did it evolve into a more personal face to face relationship. She is not being very clear on this aspect.... and it's raising a red flag for me on who she is not directly responding to this issue. It being an only online situation has a significant infuence on opinions here.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

"Respect.... It is the ability to see people as they are, to be aware of their unique individuality" Eric Fromm

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/23/2010 11:06:21 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 6464
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

You're right. It was wrong of me to assume. I just... I guess I didn't see any reason to think that there was potentially someone other than he and his wife that I would be dealing with. I know someone will read this and say "Really? He's poly and you didn't think there may be someone else?" lol But honestly... really, I didn't. I expected transparency.


but did you communicate this expectation?...... I suspect you didn't

quote:


He and I have talked a good deal about the situation since. I have no plans to re-enter a relationship beyond friendship with him and I think we both realize that we had different expectations. He's agreed that he needed to have been more forthcoming.

This woman is an online relationship as well by the way. He and his wife have known her for a little longer than they have known me. I don't know when they began talk of her potentially moving in. She actually lives in my state, a couple of hours away from me and they live in another. I only found out about it this past week.



mmmmmmmm..... why do I get the feeling that this never evolved beyond the online environment? If this is the case.... I have to put myself in the couples shoes... and here I have a women making commitment that I have never met..... "Huge Red Flag" for me..... maybe not a deal breaker... but I would take things rather carefully and slowly...... and it's very unlikely she would know about me much beyond what occurs between the two of us.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

"Respect.... It is the ability to see people as they are, to be aware of their unique individuality" Eric Fromm

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/24/2010 9:58:45 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

I don't feel that I have any grounds for jealousy, but I can't help but feel a little hurt because I knew nothing about this woman being romantically involved with the couple. Sure, I knew her... even befriended her. But knew nothing else. In fact, I recently found that she was in a relationship with the husband prior to my meeting him and has been involved with him the whole time (including during the time in which I vowed to be monogamous to him). She knew all about me and the type of relationship I was involved in with him.


To be honest, in answering the OP's original question, this is -exactly- how things come together for some poly households -- especially ones that include at least some members who are involved in authority dynamics as well.

Our household is a good example. The Keepers often speak with people, and even arrange for trial situations of this nature. Especially since the individuals in your vignette knew the additional party before you came into the picture, and had been openly poly, which they expressed to you clearly, it is completely feasible, to me, that there might be other relationships aside from their relationship with you on the table at any given time. While I would have preferred to have a bit more disclosure in my own relationships, the House per se does not -require- that every single member be included in a discussion of someone's trial with the House... only at the point at which that person becomes a full member does everyone in the House have to be informed about the full length and breadth of this person's involvement... and a significant percentage never make it that far. Also, most of us have long-term, semi-formal relationships with people who will -never- be formal members of the household because they don't choose to be -- but we still have close enough friendships with them that a majority of people would technically consider us as "dating", even though we don't use that kind of romance-based terminology in our authority or fetish relationships.

You mention that you were being monogamous to him at this time like it is relevant to the question at hand, and I just wanted to bring up that your choice to be monogamous to him is really not relevant. Even if you told him you were doing so, that does not compel him, in any way, to reciprocate.

I think it is possible that asking more questions before you got started might have alleviated much of the misunderstanding in this situation. I spend prolonged periods of celibacy because of certain esoteric responsibilities that I have, but I would NEVER presume that while I'm not sexually active, the rest of the members of my household can't have sex either -- and I'm the Matriarch. Questions like
  • Are you seeing/courting anyone else, either individually or as a couple at this time?
  • Are any of those relationships what you'd call "serious"?
  •  If I choose to enter into this as a closed relationship with the both of you, will you reciprocate or will you continue to entertain other relationships?
  • If you -do- enter into another relationship, would you tell me about it, and how much would you disclose?
  • If you became serious about this person, when would I learn about it and would I have any say in how things progressed from that point?
would be important for you to know, and are perfectly acceptable to ask. I can't really speak to the online portion of things, as I don't think any of our Keepers, myself included, really do a lot of 'online' relationships, and don't do virtual collaring.

Poly is a complex way of relating between people. It has so many permutations, and you're right, a level of transparency helps to make things run more smoothly. That's why we volunteer a lot of information about what -will- and -won't- be disclosed (especially where authority dynamics are involved), and what we expect from those who are considering our household, as well as addressing the other party's expectations before we -ever- consider ourselves "in a relationship" with that person. Yes, it takes longer this way -- and I'll be honest, we lose a few people every year to issues of impatience with our rather intricate processes -- but in the end, those who make it through all the way find that there are few nasty surprises concerning what our household is like, and how we function.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 12/24/2010 10:04:46 AM >

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/26/2010 9:10:38 AM   
WickedWilliam


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		From the "guy" perspective, and very new at the poly concept, guys have a tendency to keep things close to the vest until its a "done deal". Many times this is because while women are the great communicators, guys really don't want to get into a three day discussion about something that actually may not happen. We know the three day discussion is coming, but only want to deal with that if we know it is due to plans that are now concrete. With that said, everything I have learned tells me communication is critical in a poly relationship and it seems a bit more of an early indication of someone new joining the household may have been called for.
In regards to the sex aspect, if he had added someone new and was having sex with her, he should have told you immediately. Common sense there.

Regards,
William

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 12/26/2010 9:46:02 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 20705
Joined: 2/21/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedWilliam
In regards to the sex aspect, if he had added someone new and was having sex with her, he should have told you immediately. Common sense there.

Regards,
William

I'm not necessarily sure that I agree.  The only people who have a right to know who I'm having sex with are........  The other people that I'm having sex with.  If the OP was just 'online romance' that doesn't necessarily qualify.  Had theirs been a physical relationship in any way (which I still haven't seen the OP say it was) I would have agreed with you.



_____________________________

"Come to the edge, She said.
He said that he was afraid.
Come to the edge, She said.
He came. She pushed him,
And he flew . . ."


http://NE2010.net

Now running "Lady Pact's World".

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/4/2011 12:34:54 PM   
MisterDLadyD


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlluringArtist

{clipped for brevity} I made a commitment to be monogamous to him myself, with the understanding that he wouldn't be. {clipped for brevity} While my relationship was primarily with the husband, I did spend a good amount of time with his wife. I think she was the reason I was able to become so comfortable with it all. She gave me so much reassurance and often spoke of her own experiences when she first became involved in a poly relationship with him.
{clipped for brevity} I don't feel that I have any grounds for jealousy, but I can't help but feel a little hurt because I knew nothing about this woman being romantically involved with the couple. Sure, I knew her... even befriended her. But knew nothing else. In fact, I recently found that she was in a relationship with the husband prior to my meeting him and has been involved with him the whole time (including during the time in which I vowed to be monogamous to him). She knew all about me and the type of relationship I was involved in with him.
{clipped for brevity} I'm still so new to this - it's my first and only experience with poly, but I imagined it to be this beautiful concept and now based on this experience, it just seems like a way for a guy to screw around with an excuse. :(


We see that your own answer is within your post. Yes, It is normal for a person in a poly relationship to have multiple lovers and you should not feel slighted in any way. When you come down to it.. "You" made a commitment to be one thing with the understanding that he would not be the same. Your lopsided relationship with both of them should have told you that they were not hiding anything from you. Even with the other woman, she was never hidden from you and you even had ample opportunity to talk with her as you say you "even befriended her".
The root of the problem as we see it is that you failed to communicate with them. Did you ever tell them that you had committed to a monogamous relationship with the husband? From what we are reading you did not. If you told them, did you ask their feeling about that? Did you ask early on whom he might be involved with and to what extent any existing involvement was? When you found out about the "other woman", did you think to ask why she was being considered as a live-in over you? Did you ask to be notified should he become involved with additional people? We think you will see where failure to ask is not the same as failure to disclose. There are many things that each of us consider trivial and do not disclose yet are not hiding. Should someone ask about those things we openly tell about them. No deception, dishonesty, or bad feelings intended. Just a case of differing opinions as to what might be critical or important.

Polyamory is about open and honest love of more than one person at the same time and there are many differing Poly-Dynamics. Please read Polyamory.org to see what we are saying here.

Chalk your experience up to learning and assess for yourself if you are poly-compatible or not.

Our wishes for all to have a Happy, Safe, and Enjoyable New Year to all
Mister D and Lady D

< Message edited by MisterDLadyD -- 1/4/2011 12:37:21 PM >

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/4/2011 3:35:20 PM   
sansa


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Here's my experience with poly thus far:

i'm the slave, i accept what he wants because he wants it and my opinions matter only so long as they agree with what he wants.

And the background to that:

i was involved with a man a few years ago, he said he wanted one stable Master/slave relationship, then to experiment with the possibility of adding more after we were together for a year or so. Time goes by, and one day i find another girl added to the "family." Then another. It had not been discussed between us (this is AFTER he and i discussed how we would go about it) and he said "Me Master, you slave: accept or go"...ok, well, not exactly put like that, but it was how it came across.

i'm not with him anymore.

Soon after that, i entered another poly situation, where i was the addition to the existing family. i would not accept a collar from the man until i'd met and talked with all the other girls and made sure we got along. He wanted to collar me but said he'd honor my decision to wait. After a while, i accepted the collar and all was well...for a while...things blew up between us girls because two of us were devoted to a *Family* and the rest just wanted to be able to say they were part of a large stable. Fine. Whatever.
Things settled down, the girls involved in that drama were "jettisoned" and all was well - or so i thought. He'd "agreed" that to work as a Family, and not just a stable, we needed to all be on the same page, know all of the others, accept all of the others Before collars were given. So, what happened next? i'm sure you guessed it: he collared yet another girl, without bringing her to the existing girls to see if she was compatible with those of us he already had. i'm no longer with him, either, because he's too interested in a large stable, with as many girls as he can "Love" as he can possibly line up. He doesn't care about whether those girls can get along with one another, whether they want a large stable of women to share him with. He'll end up alone in the end because of it, but oh well. It's the bed he's made: he's now got to lie in it.

The moral of the story: be careful of the type of poly tops that want stables. If you cannot handle being a part of a stable, all that will happen is you will be hurt. Keep the lines of communication open, but also watch their behaviour with other women. If you hear him saying "yeah, I want compatibility" just be sure his actions match those words, because he could just be feeding you what you want to hear to keep you happy and IN his stable.



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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/6/2011 5:51:53 AM   
InkedupMaster44


Posts: 3
Joined: 12/26/2010
Status: offline 		I think they should have been up front with you and let you know about the situation. This typically should have happened during the initial terms of agreement in the relationship. But you should have been told about the other girl, and the couples decision to bring another into the mix. Especially if you are spending alot of time there, or living there. POLY is tough, TRUST, and HONESTY is essential. Just my .02

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/14/2011 3:38:51 AM   
DragonNphoenix


Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Okay... My (only mine.. not Dragons) two cents. I have been part of a wonderful poly experience that made my heart sore when I moved and had to end it, and also been a part of a poly triad where one of the males thought that being Poly was his excuse to fuck anything with two legs and a pussy. Soooo... seeing it from both sides.. I believe whole heartly in Poly... Dragon and I are poly... though we are still searching for our one. I would say.. dont let one asshat ruin it for all those of us out here who wear our hats on our heads.

Phe

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RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/20/2011 9:19:54 PM   
Entropy121


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline 		My own two cents:

What I find especially strange and confusing is that you and the "other woman" interacted frequently and she never mentioned that she is involved with your man. Details aside, this to me is a huge red flag. If the two (or three) of them were actively conspiring to keep this a secret from you, then:

1. This is NOT normal poly behavior, especially from my experience, and especially for non-D/s as well.
2. Conspiring to keep secrets is anti-thetical to generally accepted poly ethics.
3. Regardless of what was negotiated/not negotiated, you are right to feel hurt.
4. In your situation, with my own philosophy, preferences, and personality, I would be PISSED. AS. HELL.

With regards to other's comments, I feel I should point out that withholding information while searching for new partners, adding multiple partners at the same time, etc. is a situation you see in D/s more often than more vanilla poly, and is sometimes properly negotiated(thus perfectly okay), sometimes not. These frequent anectodes are not representative of poly as a whole.

In my experience.

(in reply to DragonNphoenix)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/20/2011 11:32:49 PM   
kiyari


Posts: 630
Status: offline 		My concept of PolyAMORY is: that it is an extended familial network.

Where it differs from a SWINGERS 'network', is in this wise ~

Those within the network comprise: intimates, friends, and cordial acquaintances.
Not every member is intimate with every other.

My understanding of a PolyAmorous network is: that NONE are added, sans the acceptance of those already present.

Naked PolyAMORY is not a D/s construct.

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 1/21/2011 2:13:51 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3650
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

My understanding of a PolyAmorous network is: that NONE are added, sans the acceptance of those already present.


I would qualify this -- in our household, everyone is INFORMED, but we are NOT a democracy -- therefore, an individual MAY be brought into the household without everyone's "acceptance" (which I read as "approval").

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to kiyari)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Is This Normal, Poly Behavior? - 6/22/2011 9:24:01 AM   
MisterDLadyD


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
quote:

My understanding of a PolyAmorous network is: that NONE are added, sans the acceptance of those already present.


I would qualify this -- in our household, everyone is INFORMED, but we are NOT a democracy -- therefore, an individual MAY be brought into the household without everyone's "acceptance" (which I read as "approval").
Calla


Hello to all in the thread,
We are reading comments that are confusing "Open Poly" with "Closed Poly" relationships. The Closed dynamic usually requires the approval of everyone involved before someone new is brought in where an Open Poly relationship could resemble swinging in that one or the other poly-partner might go out and have sex with everyone they happen to befriend.
To learn more about Polyamory you may want to visit polyamory.org



_____________________________

Mister D and Lady D
Seeking to own our first life-long live-in bisexual female subservient, but are also open to bringing a bisexual female into our home as a Poly second to both of us.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 38
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