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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 1/15/2011 2:26:01 PM

FrankAr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

A slave can be mastered or not, but a slave who has no master is still fundamentally a slave. That desire still rules her, even if it's not fulfilled at the present moment.

freeing her is unlikely to change the nature of your dynamic.

Tal,

I am trying to pin point your thoughts on the 2 matters that I have taken out from your reply to Tim's comments and will put my 2 cents in.

1...A slave whom is without a master is classed as free. She gets up when she wants to, wears what she wants to, eats what she wants to. The only thing that will stop her from doing this is her job. I mean she can't wear skimpy clothing if she is a nurse. She can eat all she wants to, but if she wants to be enslaved later on, what male would want a female that has let herself go. This does not mean the same thing as being overweight or full figured. Her mentality changes ten fold from when she goes from a slave to free. There might also be other mitigating factors in the thought process.....having family to take care, a new job, age...all have to be taken into account when she is de steeled. If she thinks that she might loose it from going from steeled to free, she would look for a new owner quick smart and beg the steel, for she might feel complete being in steel than being free. Some females do feel a sense of warmth when they have that steel around their neck, they do not have to worry about decisions, they are relaxed to enjoy the life that they have with another. There is a MAJOR difference between a slave being mastered and a slave mastering herself. The slave in trying to master herself will not have that outside orientation of goals being obtained and having them enforced. Ever heard of the term.....close is good enough....that is what comes out of their mouths when they try to self master, and this is after talking with a many a female.

2...Freeing her WILL change the dyanamics. Let us face the facts, she goes from slave to wife, do you actually think that she will stay in the same train of thought. IN MY EYES ......no. Her mind will go into a different level than of the other......slave to wife, even slave to FW. Even though the same woman is involved, her mental dynamics change completely. The change might be done because of age, or because of legalities.....wills, hospital forms. The female might become lost without the steel, her life having been within steel looses its direction and the whole life is then thrown into choas.

Enough of my rambling.

Be well.

Frank Ar.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 1/15/2011 2:28:38 PM >

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 1/16/2011 1:08:27 PM

Maahsatti

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Joined: 8/5/2006
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quote:

Hello all,

quote:

quote:

My 2 cents... the idea of free women on earth is a joke. They had 3 purposes on gor: 1. Breeding, 2. Inheritance, 3. Political alliance. None of those reasons have any application in living according to a gorean philosophy in this world.

A part of me wants to get really sassy, but instead for the sake of answering logically, I shall try to use a better judgment for this comment.

I wonder why it's just a joke for the sake of curiosity.

I also wonder why you think we as Fw cannot be a part of Earth's Gorean philosophy. Other than for reasons stated.

First of all not all women on Earth can be a slave dear, it's simply not possible for some of us. Speaking for myself, I don't have any desire at all nor the inclination for being a slave, it's simply not in me to do so. Yet, I do call myself Gorean because of my own ideal, thoughts and inclinations of what I know to be true of the philosophy and how it fits into my own life as I fit into it. I believe that is all it takes to be Gorean to begin with, is to understand and develop in my own personality and thoughts or behaviors that coincide with the philosophy.

Also I want to bring up the fact that women on Gor held estates they managed as well, with male and female slaves at their "beck and call" per say. They were not just members of a family who upheld the family traits and also the Caste they belonged to, they were individuals who commanded a presence in their own estates. Not so politically motivated I think I believe that was for the male to command more of a presence in, granted there was a city or two that had Taxtrix's, but they too fell beside the wayside in difference to a man who took over as well. But that is in the books of course.

I don't think that has anything to do with a Fw here on Earth anyhow. I think I am confident enough in my own reasoning to be who I am, frankly, I do what I wish to do within the limits and guidelines of my society that has rules for me to follow as any man would do so. I respect and admire and yes obey my husband but then I would do so even if I didn't have a Gorean status as that is what I believe in to do and it is right and correct for me to do so. It does not necessarily mean I am submissive to the point of a slave however, I cannot do that in my own being. So therefore, knowing who I am, what I believe in, and how I portray myself and as for the status on any Gorean board, I remain a Fw always.

I hope I put this in a way for others to understand. This is a great discussion I think.

Terrah

_____________________________

Hi Terrah,

LTNS, I hope you have been well and that you and your family thoroughly enjoyed the Holidays.

I spend little time online on these boards or any where. I have been extremely busy living life. I came to realize that to live life under my beliefs and under the philosophies I believe help fullfill my life is so much more satisfying then spending it on a computer typing about it.
However, it is very inspiring to see a post such as yours when I do come on and peek in.
Thank you for sharing a part of yourself with us out here.

I wish you very well,
Babs

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Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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Post #: 22

RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 2/17/2011 2:47:33 PM

MastrVran

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In reply to no one in particular.

Women on Earth will always have one simple problem, no matter what, they are free from the legal standpoint. Mentally they can be anything they can feel or imagine. Oh and by imagine I do not mean live in a delusional state. I simple mean they think in certain ways and associate themselves as slave, FW or something else even if the something else is someone who has no label that applies.

Now as Gorean's, or at least as people who are willing to make the claim that they are Gorean or think in ways that they believe a Gorean would, we see people in certain ways based upon their actions, their stated beliefs or the relationships they are in. The legality, which on Gor is built into the entire society, obviously cannot exist on Earth.

Now as for slaves? That has to be a strictly consensual arraingement even if the reality is the women effectively has no real choice because of her disposition and needs. Other than that the rest of women on Earth are Free Women until or unless they desire to become a slave. The desire can be instilled because of their own introspection or because they see or feel something when in the presense of a strong Dominant Man. (Oh and I use just male/female relationships ideas understanding there are other types equally as valid. This simply being my opnion I am discussing so its phrased in the way I see things.)

So anyway, as for the original quote that started this, I cannot see it as being accurate since really all Earth women are Free Women. They do not have to live according to 3 measily reasons, they exist because they exist. Slaves on the other hand exist only when they are created on Earth. Either by their own natural desires or because they learn to see themselves as slaves.

MV

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 2/18/2011 3:25:25 PM

barelynangel

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Legalities never effected my slavery or freedom one way or another. So I disagree the legality concept is a "problem" for women. I think it's more of an issue for men because they are the ones missing a tool to help them hold a woman they want. Without the legalities giving them power of sorts they need to be capable of holding women within their determination of how she exists in his life be it as a fw or a slave or with no definition just expectation all by their little lonesome. To me as for slaves - not having legalities does really separate the masters of women from the men who wish they could be.

Not many men are capable of that kind of mastery and as this socity continues as is less and less will be masters of women because they simple aren't being taught how to be.

Angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/18/2011 3:29:14 PM >

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 2/18/2011 5:26:16 PM

Arturas

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FR

Greetings,

I don't consider Free Women a joke. The free womens' purpose is not for these things you outline only as if they are cattle on a farm but they are beloved daughters and mothers and the owners of businesses and employers and Free Companions who are very much loved and nurture the family, they are not a joke. You might be thinking of the saying, "all women are slaves..." but that statement I believe is not focused on slaves in collars but slaves to their passions and what makes women, well, women. who are just a passionate and worthy of their "state" as the slave girl.

Well wishes,
Arturas

The House of Avalon

< Message edited by Arturas -- 2/18/2011 5:28:32 PM >

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 3/21/2011 10:46:09 AM

Jahnaca

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Greetings Bull

I know this is coming rather late, I don't check into this forum much any more. Though I had to reply to what you said and all I can say is spot on!

Jahna

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 3/21/2011 11:43:02 AM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
You'll be less full of shit--at least not right out of the gate.

I've seen his other posts so I find this conjecture highly unlikely.

Generally, to this thread, I see a lot of focus on "choice" and "consent" present in one case that is not present in another. For myself, I'm a lot less clear on those two concepts than most people seem to be. If we posit that dominance is a real, actual thing... not something which is founded on an agreement between two people, then "consent" gets pretty tenuous. In that scenario, the only difference is that in a society as written in Gor there is legal support so the "master" need not "master" anyone. The force of law supports a lack of dominance.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 3/25/2011 2:43:23 PM

Outlier2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Anything else, is a fundamental denial of reality. Not that this is uncommon in the BDSM w

Not that this is uncommon period.

The heart of "offline," philosophical Gor is examining our natures and our society and seeking to live more in tune with our natures, individually and as a society.

To the extent that's a fundamental denial of reality, so is Plato.

"The unexamined life is not worth living."

Correction: It was Socrates, not Plato. I realize this is not germane to the issue at hand
but the quote, which is one of the most famous in western thought, deserves proper attribution.

Plato wrote about it, but he was quoting Socrates. Specifically it was Socrates response
to his jury when asked to give up questioning the state.

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 3/25/2011 8:53:44 PM

Terrah

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Hey Babs!

I was using this as a time out. We are very super busy and this is a good place for me to unwind so to speak, whether I comment or not. Thanks for the compliment however. Yes we had a great Holiday and are looking forward to making this resort a go. Hard work never hurt anyone, it just makes me nuts at times, too many things, too many people and too little time. Ah but once we have remodeled I think things shall settle a bit more, it's just getting to that point so we can relax and enjoy. We do have plans for that one... I often wonder what it would be like not to have to sand, stain and varnish boards all day every day, or plan to move again. I shall find out here in the next couple years.

I'll send you a personal note and not take up any more space here about my life. But from my perspective it's all Gorean. LOL Hard work and honoring our tasks, setting goals and overcoming everyday trials.

Terrah

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 4/14/2011 2:22:18 AM

DearbhailColach

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Difference between a FW and a Bond.

You dont fuck a mans FC.
On the other hand, if he likes you, he will offer up his bond.

An FC, runs your home, raises your children, orginizes your slaves, and ensures your life runs smoothly
A bond, doesnt handle your pocket book, doesnt "run" your home cause she is a slave.

In all things a slave is no where equal a FW. She is a beast, sometimes a treasured beast, but a beast just the same.

A FW, bares your children, and while she is not your equal, she is still not a beast.

Dear

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 4/22/2011 5:24:24 AM

Maahsatti

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Hiya Terrah,

I can relate when you speak of all the hard work and it being worth it in the end.
While my packing and moving to Des Moines is not near has hard as remodeling and getting things set up, it is still yet a lot of blood sweat and tears none the less...lol.

Got your mail and replied.

wishing you the best,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 4/22/2011 6:12:46 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

quote:

She can eat all she wants to, but if she wants to be enslaved later on, what male would want a female that has let herself go.

I do not know, however I have never been very interested in my appearance, usually wearing whatever is closest at hand and I seldom use make up or do much other than putting my hair up and Aswad seamed quite happy with me when I was a slave. Off course appearance plays a part, however some men I think appreciate a woman who do not fuss much over her appearance.

I wish you well.

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 4/22/2011 6:31:55 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

Respectfully I disagree. One is not free just because the law give you freedom, that just mean you are a slave who have been granted some privileges and that go for men and for women. Freedom is an internal state, I mean we have allot of things society say we can not do laws preventing our freedoms. Like in Norway that briefly enacted a law which meant you had to appeal to the state to be allowed to do any kind of work on your bathroom. If you wanted to change the toilet in your own private home you had to go to the state, ask them like a good slave and even pay them to consider it. However at that law the Norwegian people sat down their foot fixing their bathrooms illegally and posting pictures of it and eventually the state had to take down that law as it got to extreme.

Freedom is not what is given to you, your degree of freedom is dependent on what you are willing to do once someone decides to take your freedoms away, in fact I would go so far as to say freedom is a thing of the mind, not outside conditions. I would like to post a quote from a lady at another forum I am on, we where discussing hiding weapons for self defense in our hair.

quote:

I would never hide weapons in my hair unless I was in jail and had to. I mean, really, I can jab your eyes out with my car keys if you don't even have a gun. I'll take chance up against a knife. And if you do have a gun, you WIN! But you can go ahead and shoot me cause I'm NOT going anywhere with you and I am NOT going to dig my own grave. Clean up is your problem! lol

This is a quote of a free woman, no she is not Gorean as far as I know, a free person is someone who is willing to risk punishment, material loss, physical harm and even death to remain free. If you are not willing to risk this then you are a slave given privileges by a Master. I have always found it idiotic the Gorean idea that a free woman is only free as long as a man allow her to be free. If someone allow you to be free then you are per definition not free.

And for me, going deep down into myself I know there are some privileges I would not tolerate the loss off, there are a limit where I would fight, but I would not be willing to die just to remain free which means that even if I am a free woman and Aswad's free companion that "freedom" was given to me and as such is not really freedom, it is a privilege. True freedom is a willingness to die to remain free, and while I think more men have this willingness than women, there is also plenty of women both in real life and in the Gorean books willing to sacrifice everything for their freedom and therefore truly deserving the term free woman.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

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RE: Gorean FW, farce? - 4/22/2011 6:36:48 AM

nephandi

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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Greetings

quote:

I don't consider Free Women a joke. The free womens' purpose is not for these things you outline only as if they are cattle on a farm but they are beloved daughters and mothers and the owners of businesses and employers and Free Companions who are very much loved and nurture the family, they are not a joke. You might be thinking of the saying, "all women are slaves..." but that statement I believe is not focused on slaves in collars but slaves to their passions and what makes women, well, women. who are just a passionate and worthy of their "state" as the slave girl.

I usually do not agree with your posts, but this time I have to say nice post and I agree.

I wish you well.

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

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