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Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 10:47:12 AM

NiceGuyNihilist

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It's a question I've wanted to ask male Doms for quite some time, but I could never muster the guts. When you see a man allowing a woman to rule him, do you find yourself involuntarily shuddering in revulsion? Does the very concept of a submissive male fly against your ideals? Years ago, when I had just entered the scene, I found myself befriended by an experienced Dom who had just this attitude. He gave me to understand that he saw my switch status as a sort of intermediate stage on the way to better things. After I had been spanked by a woman at a play party, he later sent me a text message saying that once I had been doing kink a while, I would no longer "regress." I was piqued to say the least.

Later, after we'd had a falling out (one that was entirely my fault, incidentally), he vented his anger by calling me a "substandard male" for letting a woman take me anally. If I remember right, he even went so far as to say or imply that a man who had ever let himself be anally penetrated for sex, especially by a woman, was by definition beyond redemption as an upright and respectable individual. (I can see his perspective without agreeing with it. Logically, if women are the inferior sex, and if it's a disgraceful thing for a man to be fucked, then it's more disgraceful for a man to be fucked by a woman than by a man because it implies willing surrender to a natural inferior.)

I find myself wondering how often other Doms harbor feelings that are similar to his, if possibly less intense and uncompromising. Obviously, I wouldn't expect them to be forthcoming about such feelings at a party or a munch. So: do you have contempt for submissive males, and if so, why? I won't argue with you, however much I may disagree; for the purposes of this thread, I only want to see your point of view.

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 10:51:43 AM

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Oh shit... this could get bloody. Anyone with the balls to admit treating male submissives as substandard males... could find a few angry wenches with weapons. hehe Not to mention the not substandard males ready for a little action.

Dominance shouldn't be about gender... that's all I have to say... for the moment anyway!

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 10:53:30 AM

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I drink a little jameson, look on and laugh, and say...that boy is gettin his kink on.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 10:57:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist

It's a question I've wanted to ask male Doms for quite some time, but I could never muster the guts. When you see a man allowing a woman to rule him, do you find yourself involuntarily shuddering in revulsion?

My general life approach can be pretty much summed up as "whatever floats your boat". Doesn't bother me.

What's right for me isn't right for everyone.

(in reply to NiceGuyNihilist)

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 11:00:45 AM

NiceGuyNihilist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh shit... this could get bloody. Anyone with the balls to admit treating male submissives as substandard males... could find a few angry wenches with weapons. hehe Not to mention the not substandard males ready for a little action.

Dominance shouldn't be about gender... that's all I have to say... for the moment anyway!

Blood and guts are exactly what I want to avoid. I'm not asking Doms whether they consciously treat submissive men as substandard (although they're free to say so if they do), but whether they feel revulsion at the concept of male surrender to female authority. You can't condemn someone just for a feeling.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 11:11:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh shit... this could get bloody. Anyone with the balls to admit treating male submissives as substandard males... could find a few angry wenches with weapons. hehe Not to mention the not substandard males ready for a little action.

Dominance shouldn't be about gender... that's all I have to say... for the moment anyway!

Blood and guts are exactly what I want to avoid. I'm not asking Doms whether they consciously treat submissive men as substandard (although they're free to say so if they do), but whether they feel revulsion at the concept of male surrender to female authority. You can't condemn someone just for a feeling.

LOL.. then you won't blame me for when I feel contempt for those that find submissive men contemptible. Some are, some are not... just like some dom's are and are not. I have seen the dominant male attitude (some dom's not all) about submissive men and have seen just as many so called dominants act the fool and worm, trying to get a little just because they thought the cock they carried... big or small, good or bad... warranted them some special place.

A fool is a fool... discrimination is discrimination... false pride and ego is just that and dominance has nothing to do with it. If so... then why is it that so many dominant men wish to play and get a little up in certain crevices? (And think they are better than others?)

When these people have a feeling of contempt and act on it, based on male submissives being substandard men... they also attack the women that love them and females being dominants. Big picture... ugly at that.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 4/26/2011 11:18:06 AM >

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 11:34:16 AM

NiceGuyNihilist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh shit... this could get bloody. Anyone with the balls to admit treating male submissives as substandard males... could find a few angry wenches with weapons. hehe Not to mention the not substandard males ready for a little action.

Dominance shouldn't be about gender... that's all I have to say... for the moment anyway!

Blood and guts are exactly what I want to avoid. I'm not asking Doms whether they consciously treat submissive men as substandard (although they're free to say so if they do), but whether they feel revulsion at the concept of male surrender to female authority. You can't condemn someone just for a feeling.

LOL.. then you won't blame me for when I feel contempt for those that find submissive men contemptible. Some are, some are not... just like some dom's are and are not. I have seen the dominant male attitude (some dom's not all) about submissive men and have seen just as many so called dominants act the fool and worm, trying to get a little just because they thought the cock they carried... big or small, good or bad... warranted them some special place.

A fool is a fool... discrimination is discrimination... false pride and ego is just that and dominance has nothing to do with it. If so... then why is it that so many dominant men wish to play and get a little up in certain crevices? (And think they are better than others?)

When these people have a feeling of contempt and act on it, based on male submissives being substandard men... they also attack the women that love them and females being dominants. Big picture... ugly at that.

If there are any male Doms who can articulate their views on the unnaturalness or wrongness of male submission, I want them to feel comfortable doing so in this thread. Maybe you aren't interested in knowing *why* they hold the POV that they do, but I am. If you ask me what my motive is--well, basically, any time I get the impression there's a sentiment that is not being openly discussed because those who hold it fear condemnation, that very fact makes me want to give those individuals a platform. So how about we just let them say what they have to say, if any of them are willing?

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 11:53:40 AM

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Are you telling me to shut up and let them talk? lol

Personally, I don't think that anyone that feels that strongly about it, would let little ol me stop them from speaking. Maybe some might like to shut me up and would talk, I don't know. I say, bring it... let them talk about it, but you can't shut up the opinions of others because we have seen it and have a strong dislike for it. I don't mean to hang YOUR thread up or your answers, but do you really think people that are discriminating, egotistical and judgmental are actually going to say much, stand for what they believe and be honest about where their attitude comes from?

When women spoke of different issues... I can assure you, we did not have a safe environment in which to speak. Let the bold stand firm and strong and speak their minds.

I know at least a bit of why most discriminate against submissive males. Low self esteem, some extreme view of how men SHOULD act and ego, blended into a mix of stickin thinkin. However that is my take on it.

Should I be the reason that your thread went south and the strong male dom couldn't speak his mind... that ought to say something right there and I would be sorry for that.

(I love dominant men... I have many as friends and not one of them would discriminate against me or submissive men and our right to be exactly who and what we are.)

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 12:00:41 PM

NiceGuyNihilist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Are you telling me to shut up and let them talk? lol

Well, yes Ma'am, that's basically it, but I was trying to put it ever-so-diplomatically. :)

quote:

Should I be the reason that your thread went south and the strong male dom couldn't speak his mind... that ought to say something right there and I would be sorry for that.

Very good point.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 12:41:24 PM

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quote:

I feel contempt for those that find submissive men contemptible.

Me too.

BTW, we just had a 17 page thread on a similar topic: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3549768/mpage_1/tm.htm

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 12:42:18 PM

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Before I make a judgement I need to know their motivation.

The only two I see are:
1) losers who live with their mother
2) actors who get their foot in the door pretending to be submissive.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 1:52:58 PM

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Hahaha! I enjoy a wide variety of stimulation but never, not once, has a woman I've dated come to these message boards to cause drama. I consider dominance over women (and men) to mean "getting them to do what you want." Not "keeping them out of your anus but not controlling them in any other way."

To answer the question of the OP: your question is ill posed. What matters is who wields power, not who wields sex toys.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 2:15:27 PM

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No. It wouldn't really occur to me to evaluate someone on that basis. I'm not a male chauvinist so the whole "inferior sex" thing just sounds ridiculous to me. It wouldn't occur to me to evaluate someone on the any of the scales that the dom in question used. I'm more interested in whether men are "good" than whether they are "manly". I've found plenty of contempt for "manly men" but I have never once found contempt for a good man.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 2:47:09 PM

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quote:

So: do you have contempt for submissive males

None at all. Everyone is entitled to roll the way they choose.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 2:54:37 PM

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Contempt is too strong a word. [Edited to add - it isn't even the right category of word. It's not as though I somehow instantly dislike a man because he's submissive.] Though I'll be bluntly honest, I don't see submissive men the same way I see other men. Despite myself, I always feel as though I am speaking to someone who is of lower status than I am. Quite frankly, I have to go out of my way to get to know them better than I would someone else, so I can put them on a more level field with my own ego. It takes more effort for me to be friends with them, because I feel as though we have little in common at a fundamental level.

It is in some ways the same as when I get to know someone who can't keep up with me, intellectually. I don't think less of them as a person, but it is often difficult for me to feel anything other than as though my time with them is something of a loss.

I consider this attitude one of my more obvious flaws. Unfortunately, it's been almost impossible to change.

< Message edited by Selectivelight -- 4/26/2011 2:59:06 PM >

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 3:09:32 PM

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But there are people we have nothing in common with. That doesn't necessarily mean they're less than we are, although it is human nature to prefer those we have things in common with.

But I can't imagine too many people admitting in an open forum here that they view a large percentage of the other forum members as inferior beings, or that any straight male would say it was because he thinks all women are inferior to all men, which was the op's corollary. Since admitting that is likely to mean he would never get laid again.

I think to get more honest responses, this would have been better as an anonymous poll.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 3:15:49 PM

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Being a male submissive is probably the most difficult role in BDSM, especially in a largely het scene. On that level, I have nothing but respect for male submissives.

Problem is, as most female dominants will tell you, your average male submissive is an idiot. Which is why good male submissives are so treasured.

I have a number of close acquittances who are male submissives but as older readers of this board know, I prefer dommes...

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 3:21:53 PM

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This is the third thread that I really am angry about.
Stop promoting/perpetuating discussions on hate!
Free speech is being abused here.
Talk about kink, not who is stereotyping who and who hates who!

< Message edited by beinbluesbeech -- 4/26/2011 4:01:12 PM >

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 3:31:04 PM

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quote:

This is the third thread that I really am angry about. Stop promoting/perpetuating discussions on hate! Free speech is being abused here. Talk about kink, not who is stereotyping who and who hates who! This thread sucks!

Except for the OP's friend, there are no haters on this thread.

(in reply to beinbluesbeech)

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/26/2011 4:25:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beinbluesbeech

This is the third thread that I really am angry about.

This is the internet. Perhaps you need a thicker skin.

OP, obviously I can't speak from first-hand experience. But I have watched a large number of real-life interactions between men of all d/s orientations, and I can't say that I've noticed a particular bias. You say that you wouldn't expect anyone to be forthcoming about this at a munch, and maybe you're right, but I reckon it would still show up in people's behaviour - and that's not something I've seen.

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