imperatrixx
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Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana
Imperatrixx, I don’t have to look as far as Africa to find slavery it is in every major city of the western world. Women are being sold into sexual slavery as whores and shipped from city to city as we talk. I know real slavery is out there, but the Gorean novels are not dealing with real slavery they are dealing with epic stories of the Iliad genre. Of warriors and great events, but people always start on the Gorean slavery is bad blah blah. Well show me one genuine example of a woman captured and taken to another planet to live in slavery and I will say “oh my God this is awful how can anyone do this”.
I also never said some women don’t kill themselves rather than submit to slavery please try to read my posts before answering, I said you are either a survivor or you are not, it is amazing what you can survive. It is also amazing how some try to take away that achievement by making the survivor into an object of pity and trying to reinforce the victim mentality rather than saying don’t let the bastards rule your life, go out and show you are more than what they tried to make you into.
Cheryl
Of course survivor mentality is better than victim mentality, the problem is when you confuse storytelling like Gor and the Iliad with actual events. Ancient cultures like the ones you brought up weren't stories. There were real women, brutalized and victimized.
Stuff like this:
"the Sabine women instead of crying victim ended up happily married to their rapists and defended them"
The Sabine women were fairly unique (if they were real, and not legend) in that they were offered marriage and civilization after they were raped. Most victims of war rape are brutalized and either sold or left for dead. I'm sorry but using a phrase like "crying victim" when discussing atrocities like war rape is wrong.
It's fairly easy to say, oh it's expected for women to be raped in war, and look at the Sabine women, they were okay with it. They've been dead for thousands of years and they never had a chance to tell their side of the story. The Romans who raped them told it for them. My point is, you don't have to spit on the graves of long dead victims to discuss cultures where war rape is expected and tolerated. Cultures like that still exist. If you want to talk about stories, about fiction, then discuss fiction and leave real women out of it, especially if you want to say that victims of war rape are "crying victim" and imply that it's lawyers and psychologists making them feel bad. If you want to bring real cultures, real women into this, why rely on those ghosts when you can hear first hand from women who are raped in that sort of culture? Why not look at women in the Congo, some of whom have never met a lawyer and never heard of psychology, and use them as your example?
You say that ancient cultures expected the losers to be raped and enslaved and murdered...that's fine, but there is a difference between what is expected and what is right. Saying it's expected is a statement of fact - what is your opinion on this? Is it acceptable? Is it just? Is it civilized?
But this:
"Well show me one genuine example of a woman captured and taken to another planet to live in slavery and I will say “oh my God this is awful how can anyone do this".
Okay, I'm guessing the "another planet" part is just you being facetious, but what about another country? Say, for example, the women from Gaul taken home with Caesar as war prizes? Awful? Or just ancient culture that you don't feel can be judged by modern standards?
< Message edited by imperatrixx -- 5/7/2011 12:59:00 AM >
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Gorean and ancient cultures slavery rape and the after ... - 
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