xBullx
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quote:
ORIGINAL: starshineowned
In one hand I understand what your saying Master Bull but to what end? Living Gorean without the M/s inception seems to pose no issue that I can really see other than some might think you (general) odd where the traits, beliefs derive from. Beliefs that translate into legal actions amongst the majority don't tend to cause a stir.
I didn't say that anybody had to get rid of anything, I said when you walk around talking about slaves and slavery your credibility takes a major hit in the mainstream populace. Hell, even many of the BDSM folks see what some Goreans describe as slavery to be a bit extreme. Though I must say that I have yet to meet anyone that actually practiced slavery in the sense it would be applied, in its unconditional and legal sense is it would be represented within the pages of Gor.
The majority of people that live an M/s dynamic don't even come close to what is described within the pages of Gor. I know some do play it up big when they are in front of the right folks, but most have standards that are one thing in public, and a completely other thing when they are not.
Concurrently, I have never heard of anyone, at least within the last one hundred and fifty years or so, that has bought a girl at the local auction. I have also not witnessed a man simply grabbing a girl he fancied right off the street and make her his wench; though I have seen a fair number of wenches that were taken by men and put to good use and even a few that were kept after such, but those girls were indirectly asking for what they found. When a girl teases and flirts with the right kind of men they will oblige her to their pleasures.
But in the end the vast majority of couples or groups that maintain an M/s dynamic do it carefully, discovering compatibility and love in most cases. They have a more disciplined and strict relationship then most and they love the semantics that are at work when they utilize certain terms, activities and dress, but they are not engaged in the act of slavery from it's legal and Gorean like concept. Most are only practicing the art of mastery, and I would suspect that would also apply to your situation. By you simply feeling so attached or in love with your master that you could not leave him even if you chose to does not imply that you are being held against your will. I n fact it's rather the opposite. You will has been conquered and you no longer possess it, therefore you could not will yourself away do to his mastery and that in the books is demonstrated as being the ultimate design, and objective in Gorean female submission.
So in reality what you and your master have accomplished is a much grander notion than the simple act of legalized enslavement.
Please don't allow the comments of a few, that feel I am trying to take something away that has defined the entirety of the Gorean condition for them for as long as they have considered themselves Gorean, to influence you.
My objective is little more than to see if the Gorean experiment needs a bit of tweaking so that it is not viewed in such a negative light. Most claim that they would like to be able to live their Gorean values openly, that the values of freedom and liberty are of the utmost import to the Gorean free and that to be a Gorean slavery is not even required, and this comment has, in fact, been made by some of the foremost respected Gorean types.
If the Gorean experiment is to remain quietly in the shadows of the world, a condition where a few folks live out their fantasy on how life should be in their eyes then so be it. What I'm discussing has no real value for this community and I should and will leave you all to your devises. But if the Gorean struggle for those things naturally human, the acknowledgement of the good and just differences between the sexes, the fight for personal freedom and liberty, the struggle to allow life to follow its natural course is really that important then we need to be credible in the eyes of the world so that we can stand against those that would rob us of the freedom and rights we believe to be inherently human.
The Gorean experiment is a continuously evolving condition and I certainly do not want to discourage debate on the matter. If we are going to call something Gorean it must indeed be that.
Just ask yourself this, while the mastery of the man over his woman is without a doubt a chief component of the order of nature as the Gorean sees it. Is slavery as it was configured within the books absolutely necessary in order to achieve such a condition? If so, those claiming to be engaged as such are already living a lie or an delusion. If not then why label such a wondrous act with such a negative connotation? It only detracts from the beauty that such should and often does possess.
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What is really being accomplished or attempted to be accomplish by changing the wording associated with M/s? Why is there a great need to voice anything at all about it to others outside venues that do have at least a clue? Acceptance by them as some sort of safety net for the "whatever case" down some road?
To counter your point, I ask you this, if an act or term is not important enough to be used openly why for all to see and embrace then why use it at all? Are you ashamed of it? If others have trouble understanding it and you can not openly defend it and easily I might add perhaps they are correct in their assumptions.
Have you noticed that the only folks that seem to be standing opposed to my considerations are those would be "slave girl" types and the men that use this fantasy to suit their lustful means, and those that crave this certain degree of fantasy in their lives, some have found something of the sort others are still looking, and I assume they are afraid that I am trying to take it away. But what I assure you is that I am doing anything but trying to take away that which a girl like you now presently cherishes, in fact my goal is to make sure no one else ever does. Really examine what it is I'm talking about. I want you to be able to always enjoy the M/s dynamic in your life and if we define in a credible way to the inexperienced and untrained eye then this negative stigma that is associated with it should go away.
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What exactly would you as a Gorean be doing differently than you do right now if you were able to live more openly than you feel you are right now Master Bull?
Spending a lot less time defending a seemingly indefensible positions. Goreans now spend entirely to much time defending the act of slavery, an act that they aren't even actually engaged in.
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As I understand from most Gorean posters here..there is nothing really wrong or illegal with how Goreans live on a day to day basis.
That is correct, as I stated, most are engaged in the art of mastery, slavery is just a semantic term for theatrical effect.
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M/s however, is going to be controversial no matter what belief system you use that incorporates it. I'd have just as much trouble in a court of law using the bible as a backup for slavery as I would the Gor books.
For slavery, yes you would. However, mastery of your women is no different than how most folks grandparents or at least great grandparents lived. And while that may not be the way that some want to live, why should they be allowed to live as they would and those in an "old fashioned" relationship should not. See how that's easier to defend.
I’m rather busy and therefore in a hurry, getting ready to head to Sturgis and all, but I took a bit of time to spell out a bit of my thinking , you will have to excuse any grammatical errors, I hope this helps. At least for those that are interested.
_____________________________
Live well,
Bull
I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...
"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."
Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.
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RE: On the subject of collars.... - 
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Loved it. Have fun in Sturgis, I'm jealous! Am I the only female that grows weak in the knees at the sound of a Harley? 
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