Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Jane Fonda


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Jane Fonda Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/17/2006 1:04:27 PM   
Pavel


Posts: 308
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline
Although that doesn't stop me from thinking Sheehan has no soul.  But that's a totally different topic.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 11:57:29 AM   
lorddragonwolf


Posts: 32
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: tennessee
Status: offline
i never blamed the cunt for what happened to our vets when they got home.  but maybe if people like her had supported the trrops even if they disagreed with the war things would have been different. 

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 12:04:41 PM   
lorddragonwolf


Posts: 32
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think there are some people that need to fnd forgiveness in their hearts and move on with their lives. I have read her book, and yes I like her, but that is not why I say this.

I say this because those people that are going around being so ugly toward this older lady are just hurting their own spiritual condition. BTW she worked hard for different vet groups for many years... Not all Vietnam vets hate her guts, just the ones that are looking for someone to blame for the pain they feel.


the only reason she helped those vet groups was because she felt guilty and she wanted to make more money for herself. 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 2:15:24 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lorddragonwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think there are some people that need to fnd forgiveness in their hearts and move on with their lives. I have read her book, and yes I like her, but that is not why I say this.

I say this because those people that are going around being so ugly toward this older lady are just hurting their own spiritual condition. BTW she worked hard for different vet groups for many years... Not all Vietnam vets hate her guts, just the ones that are looking for someone to blame for the pain they feel.


the only reason she helped those vet groups was because she felt guilty and she wanted to make more money for herself. 


Im not defending Jane Fonda. Guess what? I do not know her personally and I do not know what motivates her work. I do not go around defending politicians, actors, actresses, authors of books I have read, or anyone else I do not know personally. I DO defend those I am attached to and have some sort of relationship with whether it be friendship or otherwise... but defending the actions and motivations of strangers is really not my thing.

My original comment was really pointing out that those bashing her 40 years after the fact  should really get on with their lives and release this anger into the universe because they are not hurting Jane Fonda. They are really only hurting themselves. It is my opinion that anger held in only hurts those who feel it, not the person it is directed at. My post was not even directed to those posting about her on this board as I did not even read what they said before I made my own post.

As far as money she has "made" off vets, I am unaware of it. I know she has given much to charity. I know she wrote about feeling guilt about what happened.. Now I am not in her heart. and i do not know how she REALLY feels. To be honest I do not give a rats ass how she feels. She is a stranger to me.

Who knows, maybe in 40 years I will be posting on the internet about how much I loathe George W Bush and what he has done, and I might be posting about how he has killed 1000s of our young people in Iraq for NOTHING BUT LIES. But then again I see him as being more responsible for causing a whole lot of pain and I do not see Jane Fonda as responsible for causing anything but a lot of anger.. She never sent anyone into a war for oil... but thats just me and as per usual I could be wrong

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lorddragonwolf)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 3:12:29 PM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
I still liked her better in Barbarella than in On Golden Pond, and was hoping she'd get the role in Mr Goodbar but Dianne Keaton scooped her...

These Fondas have really affected the heart of America, from Jane and her forgotten tits for her politics and anti-useless war methodology... to the other end where brother Peter Fonda set the world on fire with the classic Easy Rider film portraying his own flavour of peaceful harmony and coexistence on a clean green planet, with good green herb and nothing but time on your hands... to Dad Henry Fonda being a classic movie good guy actor. 

Funny thing is that all three drew massive amounts of attention and stereotypes... Rednecks and good ole goobers hate the hippies and bikers, Vets hate Hanoi Jane and many friends/family of Vets feel similiar, despite being too young and never being there the attitudes prevail. Dad pretty well kept his politics out of the forefront, maintaining a celebrity/politics separation.

I posted earlier in this thread about 'mistakes' people and governments make (and keep making), and included reference to a recent slaughter of three unarmed farmers by high tech weaponry and human judgement error... mistakes which are far too often smoothed over with peanut butter or bullshit to distract from the mistake itself and the plain truth behind it.

Has any of the anti-Jane advocates born since her mistake seen documentaries or photos from the Nam'? One of the most famous was of a six year old Vietnamese girl running naked down a road towards the press... her clothes had been burned off by napalm... mistakenly dropped by a highly trained US fighter jet pilot. Hanoi Jane was aware of this and other atrocities being committed in the name of peace... killing for peace! Jane was also aware of atrocities committed by the Viet Cong, including the cutting off of arms of children who had been recently vacinated by US soldiers.

While Jane Fonda's methods may not have been sound (and orthodox), I still believe her intentions and motivation for her mistaken actions were.

   

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 3:41:30 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
3,000,000 Vietnamese from both sides died in the Vietnam war, without beginning with the number of Combodians and Loatians.

Fonda might well be worth castigating, Kissenger amongst others should be the ones that should be lynched.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 4:32:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

3,000,000 Vietnamese from both sides died in the Vietnam war, without beginning with the number of Combodians and Loatians.

Fonda might well be worth castigating, Kissenger amongst others should be the ones that should be lynched.


I would agree with that

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 7:36:07 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Yes, communist hyseria, our misguided "dominoes theory," the Vietcong's determination, as well as the lies surrounding the war were JANE FONDA's fault.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/18/2006 7:37:07 PM >

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 8:11:14 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

I posted earlier in this thread about 'mistakes' people and governments make (and keep making), and included reference to a recent slaughter of three unarmed farmers by high tech weaponry and human judgement error... mistakes which are far too often smoothed over with peanut butter or bullshit to distract from the mistake itself and the plain truth behind it.

The reason I didn't comment on it, is because I haven't seen it and therefore don't know if you are correct in your statement or not. Maybe a link to the video in question might help. But it wouldn't change my opinion or support of our military men and women. Or justify someone helping the enemy. Seeing numerous accounts of such mistakes would only sway me to believe we might want to change our methods.

quote:


Has any of the anti-Jane advocates born since her mistake seen documentaries or photos from the Nam'? One of the most famous was of a six year old Vietnamese girl running naked down a road towards the press... her clothes had been burned off by napalm... mistakenly dropped by a highly trained US fighter jet pilot. Hanoi Jane was aware of this and other atrocities being committed in the name of peace... killing for peace! Jane was also aware of atrocities committed by the Viet Cong, including the cutting off of arms of children who had been recently vacinated by US soldiers.


I saw that photo. I'm unsure how it relates. She should have protested the war, not rallied the troops of the enemy.  Enemy being anyone shooting at our troops. She could object all she wants, but stepping over and actually supporting those killing your fellow citizens, is unforgiveable. To make such a "mistake" one would have to be running on two brain cells and  brain stem. So, you must be arguing she's the dumbest celebrity ever if she's not a traitor? Maybe.
Well stupid is as stupid does. So going by the wise words of Mr. Gump, maybe you are correct and she's retarded.

And just because someone thinks that Jane Fonda was a traitor has no bearing on ones view of the war as it appears a few posters alluded to. A traitor is a person that intentionally supports the enemies cause. A protester  is someone who disagrees with the governments position and attempts to change it. A stark contrast.. Protesters want a withdrawal, a traitor supports the enemy (morale in this case), and thus helps defeat the US and cause more casualties. I don't see how one is an extention of the other. As the motivation of the protestor is more aligned with saving lives. The actions of a  traitor tend to cause more death of your own countrymen. Very different.  Now did her little tour help much, probably not, but it did give them some more ammo to destroy the morale of US troops in captivity and fighting, and build the morale of their own troops. That is enough for me to make her worthy of the title traitorous cunt, which is my word for trully disliked persons of the female persuasion. It's a shame there isn't such a vile word to describe men as well.

Thanks.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 8:42:03 PM   
HouseofBear


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline
Both of us were members of the military, and Bear served during Nam.  No love lost here for someone who travels to a country we are at war with and behaves in a treasonous manner.  As far as giving her an award or title, I am too much of a lady to type on the net the title I think she deserves.

Lady Ursa

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 9:02:01 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline
My cousin, who served 3 tours in Vietnam, 2 by his own choice, wouldn't bother with the wear and tear on his brakes if she was in the middle of the road.  She should have been kicked out and her citizenship revoked for some of the things she did and said during Vietnam while in Vietnam.  You notice she never really came out as such a prima donna here in the States when she was pseaking here, but she said plenty over there.

But she was just a naive little twit with access to too many drugs and a head full of only herself and her own vainglory.  She deserves to be one of the 100 greatest... 100 greats wastes of oxygen...

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 9:07:08 PM   
lorddragonwolf


Posts: 32
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

I still liked her better in Barbarella than in On Golden Pond, and was hoping she'd get the role in Mr Goodbar but Dianne Keaton scooped her...

These Fondas have really affected the heart of America, from Jane and her forgotten tits for her politics and anti-useless war methodology... to the other end where brother Peter Fonda set the world on fire with the classic Easy Rider film portraying his own flavour of peaceful harmony and coexistence on a clean green planet, with good green herb and nothing but time on your hands... to Dad Henry Fonda being a classic movie good guy actor. 

Funny thing is that all three drew massive amounts of attention and stereotypes... Rednecks and good ole goobers hate the hippies and bikers, Vets hate Hanoi Jane and many friends/family of Vets feel similiar, despite being too young and never being there the attitudes prevail. Dad pretty well kept his politics out of the forefront, maintaining a celebrity/politics separation.

I posted earlier in this thread about 'mistakes' people and governments make (and keep making), and included reference to a recent slaughter of three unarmed farmers by high tech weaponry and human judgement error... mistakes which are far too often smoothed over with peanut butter or bullshit to distract from the mistake itself and the plain truth behind it.

Has any of the anti-Jane advocates born since her mistake seen documentaries or photos from the Nam'? One of the most famous was of a six year old Vietnamese girl running naked down a road towards the press... her clothes had been burned off by napalm... mistakenly dropped by a highly trained US fighter jet pilot. Hanoi Jane was aware of this and other atrocities being committed in the name of peace... killing for peace! Jane was also aware of atrocities committed by the Viet Cong, including the cutting off of arms of children who had been recently vacinated by US soldiers.

While Jane Fonda's methods may not have been sound (and orthodox), I still believe her intentions and motivation for her mistaken actions were.

  


mistakes are made in war.  napalm was and is a nasty weapon as are many thousands more.  No lets talk about the soldiers who stoped to help a child and when they picked or moved the child a bomd exploded, or of the women who handed soldiers baskets of food after pulling the pin of a grendae inside the basket.  Yes theses things happened sit and talk to a vietnam vet and see what kind of horrors they saw and had to deal with.  a desison to kill a child or woman because they had grenades strapped to their bodies curtiousy of the viet cong.  WAR IS HELL

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/18/2006 10:39:33 PM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
The reason I didn't comment on it, is because I haven't seen it and therefore don't know if you are correct in your statement or not. Maybe a link to the video in question might help. But it wouldn't change my opinion or support of our military men and women. Or justify someone helping the enemy. Seeing numerous accounts of such mistakes would only sway me to believe we might want to change our methods.


Try here for the three farmers slaughtering video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXekZfUOkw&search=Gunship 

The same video is being e-mailed around the net and advocated by unknowing military members and veterans as an AC-130 gunship taking out insurgents placing a roadside IED, bragging about what a great job the military is doing, while this was nothing short of remote platform pushbutton murder knowing you can and will get away with it.

Now I'm seeing the word 'mistake' and 'mistakes' showing up in many replies to this thread. My original and subsequent posts refer to these 'mistakes' made by both military powers and by Jane Fonda in her zeal to put an end to the useless carnage.

Blaming Jane Fonda for her political meddling and not including in her company the likes of Jesse Jackson and others who follow their own political itenerary and meet with whoever they wish does not take away the uselessness of the military conflicts people like these attempt to stop. The shit is still going on and 'mistakes' continue unabaded, while peaceminded activists do their things.

If you want to get down on somebody against wars like this, go after those assholes who tote signs saying God is Punishing You at military funerals, chanting we hate you and are glad you died... that shit is happening right here on US soil, over and over!   


(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 4:49:53 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

Try here for the three farmers slaughtering video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXekZfUOkw&search=Gunship 

The same video is being e-mailed around the net and advocated by unknowing military members and veterans as an AC-130 gunship taking out insurgents placing a roadside IED, bragging about what a great job the military is doing, while this was nothing short of remote platform pushbutton murder knowing you can and will get away with it.



Actually that video looked suspicious to me. So the guy drives up and runs full speed into the the field and throws down something that easily could have been a weapon and runs back to the vehicles. Why would you run and throw a farm tool, then run back to your car? It makes since if it was a weapon to do that, since you want to hide it quickly. Ummmm, I dont' think that video proves a mistake, I'm sure there have been plenty but the actions of the men don't make sense if it was a farm tool. Maybe they were just the oddest farms I've ever seen. I guess.




(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 4:51:51 AM   
lorddragonwolf


Posts: 32
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

If you want to get down on somebody against wars like this, go after those assholes who tote signs saying God is Punishing You at military funerals, chanting we hate you and are glad you died... that shit is happening right here on US soil, over and over!   



some states are already passing laws making it illegal for them to be near a funeral of a solidier.  But this is the same so called religious group who has been bashing gays and people who have cought the Aids virus.  They are waiting for someone to attack them and get even more publicity so the lawyers of the ACLU can defend them.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 5:14:58 AM   
lorddragonwolf


Posts: 32
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

Try here for the three farmers slaughtering video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXekZfUOkw&search=Gunship 

The same video is being e-mailed around the net and advocated by unknowing military members and veterans as an AC-130 gunship taking out insurgents placing a roadside IED, bragging about what a great job the military is doing, while this was nothing short of remote platform pushbutton murder knowing you can and will get away with it.



Actually that video looked suspicious to me. So the guy drives up and runs full speed into the the field and throws down something that easily could have been a weapon and runs back to the vehicles. Why would you run and throw a farm tool, then run back to your car? It makes since if it was a weapon to do that, since you want to hide it quickly. Ummmm, I dont' think that video proves a mistake, I'm sure there have been plenty but the actions of the men don't make sense if it was a farm tool. Maybe they were just the oddest farms I've ever seen. I guess.






and the second "farmer" threw something down as well.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 12:31:02 PM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Actually that video looked suspicious to me. So the guy drives up and runs full speed into the the field and throws down something that easily could have been a weapon and runs back to the vehicles. Why would you run and throw a farm tool, then run back to your car? It makes since if it was a weapon to do that, since you want to hide it quickly. Ummmm, I dont' think that video proves a mistake, I'm sure there have been plenty but the actions of the men don't make sense if it was a farm tool. Maybe they were just the oddest farms I've ever seen. I guess.


I know what I see in the video. I do not see any form of weapon other than the exploding bullets from the helicopter. I also see a wounded unarmed farmer crawling from beneath the large truck where he dove for cover when the other farmers were wasted. I also see and hear the Apache crew saying there's a wounded man... dust him and the other truck, which was done next. Shooting unarmed injured people, whether combatants or not is a serious violation of the Geneva Convention, which is clearly shown in the video.

Other posts seem to blindly follow a support our troops, right or wrong philosophy. I generally support our troops but feel they also should be held accountable for their uniformed combat theatre actions. A breaking news story last night was a Congressman announcing that US Marines had killed 30 innocent Iraqi civilians, including women and children, and had attempted to cover up their actions with false information. The C.O. of the Marine outfit and his X.O. had already been fired and sent to desk jobs at Camp Pendleton for their incompetence, nothing to do with the slaughter. So now let's go after that Congressman and vehemently support those Marines... Our Marines!!  Semper Fi!  Oh yeah... duh!

Standing behind your troops is an admirable and noble thing. But to stand behind your troops who murder noncombatants including women and children (and injured people as in the video), defending and standing behind that kind of shit is wrong, it also casts a very negative light on other veterans. The bad apples always ruin the whole barrel when left long enough, and the same thing happens in the US military. I was in the Air Force for 20 years and served with many Viet Nam vets as well as my own combat experiences in the Gulf Wars, so nobody has to tell me war is hell, I've been there and lost a few good friends too.

The bottom line of all this banter and pointed opinion is that Jane Fonda tried to do something to stop mutual useless carnages she felt very strongly about. While not defending Jane's methods, I stated that her motivation was indeed understandable.
  

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 12:35:36 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy

The bottom line of all this banter and pointed opinion is that Jane Fonda tried to do something to stop mutual useless carnages she felt very strongly about. While not defending Jane's methods, I stated that her motivation was indeed understandable.
 


Then, you would accept that while not necessarily defending the helicopter's crews methods, their motivation was indeed understandable?  Or can a person be called into account when their motivation is understandable, but the actions seem improper?

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 12:55:02 PM   
Pavel


Posts: 308
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline
I've re-watched the video three or four times, just to be sure.  If that's not a rocket propelled grenade laucher, or some kinda shoulder mounted weapon, I don't know what it was.  It's just the right size, shape, and really, I'm not exactly a farm boy, but I can't think of somthing that length, shape, that would need to be grabbed, and tossed into a field.

Hell, for all the chopper pilots likely knew it was an SA-7 for the next time they patrolled through the area.

As far as the Marines, I'm really glad that Murtha is now judge, jury, and executioner.  I mean really, who'd think that the UCMJ, or maybe due process mattered?  At that, Murtha is really unbiased.  I can't think of a possible reason why he would be interested in portraying what happened in a certain light.  Oh, wait, never mind.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Jane Fonda - 5/19/2006 1:49:44 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
In the video an assumption has been made that the men were terrorists without any evidence other than a willingness to see guilt in their actions. The problem is that no troops were in danger and having wounded one of the men they finished him off. This is not the first time that such assumptions have been made which have resulted in civilian deaths. I can clearly remember two check point incidents. There is a problem in Iraq that most people are armed for self defence because of the disintergration of security since the invasion. This type of gungho culture just recruits more terrorists and turns the population against the occupation.

(in reply to Pavel)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Jane Fonda Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078