Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account		 As the Collar Turns:
 Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home  Login  Search 
Espanol  Deutsch  Francais  Italiano  Portugues 

RE: Success


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Polyamorous Lifestyles >> RE: Success Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Success - 8/29/2011 6:21:45 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

It isnt the relationship you are skewing in perspective, it's marriage as an institution. You can define success in a relationship many ways, each relationship will be different, and some end more distressing than others, but certainly the sum of a marriage's success does not weigh on how it ends.
Indeed you can define it in many ways, and I define it as survival. How a relationship ends is not relevant, if it ends is. You can define success in any way you want, but if your relationship ends, other than through the death of one of the parties, then it was not a success in my eyes.

Anyway, as I said, I see the purpose of a relationship differently is all.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 4:49:51 AM   
Endivius


Posts: 948
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

It isnt the relationship you are skewing in perspective, it's marriage as an institution. You can define success in a relationship many ways, each relationship will be different, and some end more distressing than others, but certainly the sum of a marriage's success does not weigh on how it ends.
Indeed you can define it in many ways, and I define it as survival. How a relationship ends is not relevant, if it ends is. You can define success in any way you want, but if your relationship ends, other than through the death of one of the parties, then it was not a success in my eyes.

Anyway, as I said, I see the purpose of a relationship differently is all.



Setting marriage aside, How is it that a relationship is not a success if it ends, excluding the death of a party? You should explore this line of thinking, and not from anyone else's perspective, from your own. Consider this, if a relationship is a failure because it ends, how then do you define the sum of said relationship.

Think of a relationship in your life and explore this, and before you respond, keep in mind you don't have to limit your exploration to just lovers. A relationship can be with a family member, a friend, collegue, anything really. Ask yourself if success with those relationships is also a failure because they ended. If a friendship can end a success, how then can you not see the same with any other relationship? And if you define them as all failures, how then do you cope with so many failed relationships?

_____________________________

Complacency Is the Enemy of Progress.

I'm not difficult or wierd; I'm complicated.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 4:54:43 AM   
Endivius


Posts: 948
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

So what do you consider is a successful poly dynamic for you?



As long as we grow, share our lives, and love eachother it is a success, in my eyes.

_____________________________

Complacency Is the Enemy of Progress.

I'm not difficult or wierd; I'm complicated.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 9:19:43 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		First of all, young man, I have explored this line of thinking, that is why I hold the opinion I do. Perhaps when you have a few more years under your belt I will accept your condescension, but I doubt it even then. I was in my first romantic relationship before you were even a candy bar in your father's back pocket, I have have been doing this intimate relationship thing  for 40 years, I think I have had ample opportunity to consider what is and isn't a successful relationship.

You may have reached a different conclusion in the ten minutes or so that you have been considering the question, but don't presume to lecture me on the value of a well considered opinion.

quote:

Ask yourself if success with those relationships is also a failure because they ended.
Yes, of course they would be, if a person is no longer your friend, then that friendship was a failure. That is just common sense.

quote:

If a friendship can end a success, how then can you not see the same with any other relationship?
This question assumes a specific answer to your previous question. Since the answer you are assuming is in fact incorrect, the whole premise of this question is flawed.

quote:

And if you define them as all failures, how then do you cope with so many failed relationships?
What is there to cope with? The majority of relationships fail over time, this is simply a fact of life and one that requires no more coping with than does the fact that one needs to wash the dishes with some regularity. It is in the nature of relationships that they fail, it is a result of the fact that we, as human beings continue to grow and change throughout our lives.

Now a line of thinking that you may wish to explore is why you feel a need to redefine all your failed relationships in such a way that you can consider them to be successes.  Why is it that you cannot just accept that a relationship, while well worth having engaged in, was a failure...it didn't work out...it failed. That doesn't mean it was a bad thing or detrimental or anything else, it simply means that it didn't last, it failed for one reason or another. Some questions you should ask yourself:
What is your aversion to the word "fail"?
Do you feel that you are a failure as a person if a relationship fails? If so, why?
Why do you project this insecurity of yours onto others?

Friends come and go, lovers come and go, dogs and cats come and go, TV shows come and go, religions come and go, everything is transitory, nothing is permanent. Life is just like that. The success or failure of anything in no way impacts on its value, it is simply a categorization of its outcome. Some of us can deal with life just the way it is without the need to deceive ourselves in order to cope with it, some of us even relish it.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 12:18:40 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 948
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

First of all, young man, I have explored this line of thinking, that is why I hold the opinion I do. Perhaps when you have a few more years under your belt I will accept your condescension, but I doubt it even then. I was in my first romantic relationship before you were even a candy bar in your father's back pocket, I have have been doing this intimate relationship thing  for 40 years, I think I have had ample opportunity to consider what is and isn't a successful relationship.



Fair enough, I am not discounting your opinion. I'm only questioning the why of it to understand it better. As for the condescension, I do that from time to time.

quote:


Yes, of course they would be, if a person is no longer your friend, then that friendship was a failure. That is just common sense.


Taking the easy road on this one I see. I was refering to all of your relationships as a whole. Lets say a collegue gets promoted, moves to new york, now that relationship is failed? How about parents who travel, or children for that matter. How about a room mate from college? You don't talk to them, they aren't even on your radar. Is that relationship now over?

quote:


This question assumes a specific answer to your previous question. Since the answer you are assuming is in fact incorrect, the whole premise of this question is flawed.


You never really answered the first. You simply skipped the premis of the question. I'll leave this one alone.


quote:

What is there to cope with? The majority of relationships fail over time...


Just wanted to stop you right there, and point out that just because you say it is so, does not make it so. Your relationships may fail on a regular basis, but to say the majority of all relationships fail is a logical fallacy. It may be true for you, this does not make it true for everyone else.

quote:


this is simply a fact of life and one that requires no more coping with than does the fact that one needs to wash the dishes with some regularity. It is in the nature of relationships that they fail, it is a result of the fact that we, as human beings continue to grow and change throughout our lives.


While I do agree that people grow and change through thier lives, that has no bearing on how you cope with doing the dishes. The question I pondered was how YOU cope with failed relationships, if it is such a constant. If your answer is that you care just as much about doing the dishes as losing a friend, loved one, or lover to failure, you have probably explained all that you can about said relationships. Unless ofcourse...you just really really really hate doing the dishes.



quote:


Now a line of thinking that you may wish to explore is why you feel a need to redefine all your failed relationships in such a way that you can consider them to be successes.


Sure I'll play along, but hang on there, at no time did I say all my relationships ended in success, and certainly I have had many relationships that did not work out. In fact, show me where I said that.
The closest thing you will get is

quote:


As long as we grow, share our lives, and love eachother it is a success, in my eyes.


Key part there: "As Long as..."

quote:


  Why is it that you cannot just accept that a relationship, while well worth having engaged in, was a failure...it didn't work out...it failed.


I am not saying that it cannot happen. In fact I agree whole heartedly that if relationship is bad, it can be a failure indeed. I'm saying not ALL relationships can be catagorized that way. I would never see it that way. Plenty of people from all over the world I will probably never see again in my life time, and I certainly don't consider those relationships failures, but I do consider them over, but by your definition; because they are over, they must be failures.

quote:



What is your aversion to the word "fail"?


I'm indifferent to the word. I used it several times here to show you i'm not affraid of it. I simply enjoy excersizing my vocabulary. If it's your favorite word, more power to you.

quote:


Do you feel that you are a failure as a person if a relationship fails? If so, why?


No, not in the least. Even if I in some way, manage to fuck up a relationship. I learn from it and move on. Depending on the level of personal investment in the relationship will probably determine the amount of time I would need to move past it. I imagine this is not exclusive to me.

quote:


Why do you project this insecurity of yours onto others?


Dunno where you got this one from, probably just more random attempts at insults over my first post above. Happy to be who I am. Don't care if you, or anyone else approve. Moving on.

quote:


Friends come and go, lovers come and go, dogs and cats come and go, TV shows come and go, religions come and go, everything is transitory, nothing is permanent. Life is just like that. The success or failure of anything in no way impacts on its value, it is simply a categorization of its outcome. Some of us can deal with life just the way it is without the need to deceive ourselves in order to cope with it, some of us even relish it.


That's one way of looking at it. It's just not my way. If it makes you happy, and works for you, that's your buissiness. I was just curious.


Edit Sigh i cant type today...

< Message edited by Endivius -- 8/30/2011 12:20:09 PM >

_____________________________

Complacency Is the Enemy of Progress.

I'm not difficult or wierd; I'm complicated.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 12:20:44 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 23773
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I said it before and I will say it again..........simply because something ends does not make it a failure. 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 12:29:48 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3520
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: online 		Amen.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I said it before and I will say it again..........simply because something ends does not make it a failure. 


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 1:14:25 PM   
PrincessDonna11


Posts: 89
Joined: 8/7/2011
Status: offline 		I keep it pretty simple,if all parties are fulfilled emotionally and all other ways then its successful.And yet it all goes back to comunication being the basis of understanding

(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 2:29:04 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Ah OK, you're one of those God damned word twisters who is so in love with their own imagined skill with the language they make an ass of them selves.

OK, let's dance.

quote:

Taking the easy road on this one I see. I was refering to all of your relationships as a whole. Lets say a collegue gets promoted, moves to new york, now that relationship is failed? How about parents who travel, or children for that matter. How about a room mate from college? You don't talk to them, they aren't even on your radar. Is that relationship now over?
I see, if I don't agree with you it is taking the easy way out, fine, I'd rather be correct anyway.

Yes of course if I no longer talk to somebody and they are no longer on my radar then the relationship is over. That is simply self evident, the fact that you would ask such an asinine question brings me to question the utility of responding to you at all, but I'll cut you some slack....this time.

Look, if the friendship is a success we will keep in touch, if we don't keep in touch, then it was not a success. I don't know about you, but I keep in touch with friends, those I don't keep in touch with...well one can hardly call that a friendship now can one?

quote:

You never really answered the first. You simply skipped the premis of the question.
No, I did answer the first, but I didn't answer the way you wanted me to to further your argument. This is a flaw I have seen in a few of your posts, you pose a question in order to make a point, yet you fail to take into account that the question can have several answers. Calling it a dead horse is a convenient way of deflecting attention away from the fallacy you employed.

quote:

Just wanted to stop you right there, and point out that just because you say it is so, does not make it so. Your relationships may fail on a regular basis, but to say the majority of all relationships fail is a logical fallacy. It may be true for you, this does not make it true for everyone else.
Again, with the fallacious arguments, the majority of relationships DO fail, based on the criteria by which I am judging the success of relationships. If you are claiming that the majority of all relationships of all sorts that you have ever been in are still ongoing, then you are lying. So, back up, instead of trying to make things appear as if I am a failure because over 52 years of living all over the world I have had relationships that are no longer ongoing, you would do better to accept the veracity of my statement. Relationships end more often than not. And by my criterias that means they failed, so if I say they failed all I am saying is they are no longer in place.

quote:

While I do agree that people grow and change through thier lives, that has no bearing on how you cope with doing the dishes. The question I pondered was how YOU cope with failed relationships, if it is such a constant. If your answer is that you care just as much about doing the dishes as losing a friend, loved one, or lover to failure, you have probably explained all that you can about said relationships. Unless ofcourse...you just really really really hate doing the dishes.
Cute way to end it, but the bulk of it is irrelevant deflection and an effort to ridicule and belittle based on a metaphor used, and to be honest, an attempt my autistic son could better without breaking a sweat. As I said in the section of my reply you selectively quoted, there is no need to cope, it is simply a fact of life with which one deals. How do I cope with relationships that end? I pay no attention to them and concentrate on those that have not ended. Is that a clear and unequivocal enough a statement for you to be able to avoid your love of twisting things?

quote:

Sure I'll play along, but hang on there, at no time did I say all my relationships ended in success, and certainly I have had many relationships that did not work out. In fact, show me where I said that.
The closest thing you will get is
Again, you are taking my words out of context and interpreting them through your filters, rather than mine. You have relationships in your past that are no longer ongoing that you consider successful. This is the basis of my remark. By my standards they are not successful, and therefore you are indeed redefining a failed relationship in order to be able to call it a success. Just as I said.

quote:

I am not saying that it cannot happen. In fact I agree whole heartedly that if relationship is bad, it can be a failure indeed. I'm saying not ALL relationships can be catagorized that way. I would never see it that way. Plenty of people from all over the world I will probably never see again in my life time, and I certainly don't consider those relationships failures, but I do consider them over, but by your definition; because they are over, they must be failures.
I know what you are saying, but again...in light of the way I define success, you are wrong.

quote:

I'm indifferent to the word. I used it several times here to show you i'm not affraid of it. I simply enjoy excersizing my vocabulary. If it's your favorite word, more power to you.
Stupid word play and again an attempt at a jab unworthy of my autistic son, let alone an adult. Do try to do better, I realize you are young and cocky, but you really aren't that big a deal, nor are you that smart. I know at least 200 people who are smarter, wittier, and better at repartee than you, and my advice to you is to not try it, you pretty much suck at it.

quote:

Dunno where you got this one from, probably just more random attempts at insults over my first post above. Happy to be who I am. Don't care if you, or anyone else approve. Moving on.
No, it was your assumption that I would need some sort of coping strategy to deal with the fact that the majority of my relationships have failed...meaning I have had more friends, family, and lovers over the years than I do at present..as do you and everybody on earth. It has nothing to do with approval, it is an honest question based on your attitudes/opinions as displayed by your words. The fact that you chose to deflect this with empty "I'm OK so screw you" remarks shows quite clearly that you do realise that you are in fact doing just what I said you were and you don't like that fact being pointed out.

quote:

That's one way of looking at it. It's just not my way. If it makes you happy, and works for you, that's your buissiness. I was just curious.
No you weren't, you were trying to portray my words as some sort of admission that I was a failure who needed some special way of coping with that fact.

Sorry, but you really aren't as smart or clever or even as entertaining as you seem to think you are. Now as far as I am concerned, you, and your juvenile word games, have been dealt with. If you wish to discusss this topic further without your childish attempts to twist things to say what you wish they would, then I am game, but otherwise, don't bother. I have no time for sophomoric imitations of intelligent discussion from yet another poorly educated Southron. There is no shortage.



_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 2:31:25 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

I said it before and I will say it again..........simply because something ends does not make it a failure.
It doesn't make it not worth having done, but it does make it a failure.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 2:39:54 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3520
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: online 		Don't really care what anyone else thinks.  My marriage ran its course and ended.  I don't think it was a failure.  In fact, even knowing what I know now, I would probably still have married him all those years ago.  But then, I believe thinking positive helps one live longer.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 2:57:47 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Likewise, I would still marry my Ex, even knowing the marriage would not succeed. I would not, however remarry her, despite the fact that we are the very best of friends now. We have abandoned the old relationship, and after a period of cooling off have built a totally new one, which at this point, looks to be one that might succeed. Of course, since it is a relationship with me, it's not like it is really going to have to last a huge amount of time to count as a success by my standards.

As I have stated repeatedly, failure does not mean not worth doing, it is simply an honest admission of the final status of a relationship. When I enter a relationship, of any description, it is not with the intention to have a some fun for a few years, it is to be in a relationship with that person for good. That doesn't work out most of the time, but there are some that do, and that is simply the way things are.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 6:45:24 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 6464
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I said it before and I will say it again..........simply because something ends does not make it a failure. 


But it doesn't make it a success either. I would also add that just because a relationship exists doesnt make it a success either.

I think there is more to success than that.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

"Respect.... It is the ability to see people as they are, to be aware of their unique individuality" Eric Fromm

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 7:26:56 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

I would also add that just because a relationship exists doesnt make it a success either.
I would agree with that.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 7:27:47 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 948
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline
See the world in whatever way you wish, but stop trying to debate the issue, you lost before it even started. Your last response only further supports this.

_____________________________

Complacency Is the Enemy of Progress.

I'm not difficult or wierd; I'm complicated.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 7:30:52 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

See the world in whatever way you wish, but stop trying to debate the issue, you lost before it even started. Your last response only further supports this.
No little boy, the fact that you think so only shows how little you understand what was said.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Endivius)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 7:36:01 PM   
poise


Posts: 6906
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		If this debate between Endivius and Arpig continues, does that make it a success?

_____________________________

With petals still fresh with yet tasted dew, I thrive.


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Success - 8/30/2011 7:53:58 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		No. I am done with debating him, if I really want to argue in circles with an ill-educated Southron who failed to actually learn much from what education he did get, I'll go down to P&R, like I said, there is no shortage of them, in fact I'd have to be one of the hekantonkheries to count them on my fingers.


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to poise)
Profile   Post #: 38
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Polyamorous Lifestyles >> RE: Success Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2012
Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.219