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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 7:50:06 PM

MissImmortalPain

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When my little sister used to hear people call me a bitch she would tell them it meant

Being
In
Total
Control(0f)
Him.

I found it very funny because she generally just pointed at whatever man was standing next to me without asking if I was envolved with him or not. Now when people call me a bitch I take a page from Mr King and repeat a quote for them..."Sometimes you have to be a high-riding bitch to survive. Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold onto" I find this has been true more than once in my life time so yes I am a bitch and no it doesn't bother me when other people say it. I have gotten so bad about it infact that from time to time when I hear another woman being called one over something simple, or a woman I don't consider to be a strong person, I tell the person that said it not to be so free about handing away the title. As to what other women do...they can call themselves whatever they want.

*oh* and before I forget if anyone doesn't know the book is Dolores Claiborne.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 8:07:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
To me, being a "bitch" means having high standards and refusing to let people push me around. It also means I follow my personal ethics, even if doing so goes against social mores.

Far out - that's just about the most complete 'reclamation' of a one-time insult that I've ever seen! Heh. Give it a hundred years, and formal addresses by speakers at black tie functions will start, 'Bitches and Gentlemen . . . .'

So far, then, a bitch can mean everything that's worst about a woman, or anything that's best. Are there any women for whom the word 'bitch' can mean something in between?

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 8:29:32 PM

SweetieinControl

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I might be 99 things, but a bitch ain't one.
I am one of the sweetest people most will ever encounter. I can be passionately opinionated, intelligent, and will often say things how I see them. ...but I still haven't earned the 'b-badge'.

I have no problem if a woman decides to describe herself as one, regardless if she is also a dominant. In fact, if she identifies as such, I appreciate the warning. Sometimes it's nice to know, up front, what I'm dealing with.

I'm not a fan of people using the term "bitch" to refer to a dominant woman. In my observations, it's typically used to degrade or put down or it's a perception of a male fantasy that's not always true.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 9:01:16 PM

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I would have an issue with someone that called dominant women in general, bitches or presented us as bitches. On a personal level, I really don't care what they call me. It really is no skin off my nose. The perception that we all were bitches and that is what made us dominant, I would argue.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 9:13:46 PM

Aylee

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"She may, in fact, be as nice as can be, but as soon as she says catch me if you can I’m so free this is my life and the rest can fuck off and die – as soon as she lays down the option of my way or the highway, it’s amazing how quickly everyone finds her difficult, crazy, a nightmare: a bitch." –Elizabeth Wurtzel

Bitches were the first women to go to college, the first to break thru the Invisible Bar of the professions, the first social revolutionaries, the first labor leaders, the first to organize other women. Because they were not passive beings and acted on their resentment at being kept down, they dared to do what other women would not. They took the flak and the shit that society dishes out to those who would change it and opened up portions of the world to women that they would otherwise not have known. They have lived on the fringes. And alone or with the support of their sisters they have changed the world we live in. –The BITCH Manifesto

A true Bitch is self-determined, but the term "bitch" is usually applied with less discrimination. It is a popular derogation to put down uppity women that was created by man and adopted by women. Like the term "rigger," "bitch" serves the social function of isolating and discrediting a class of people who do not conform to the socially accepted patterns of behavior.
BITCH [the hoped for organization which does not yet exist] does not use this word in the negative sense. A woman should be proud to declare she is a Bitch, because Bitch is Beautiful. It should be an act of affirmation by self and not negation by others. Not everyone can qualify as a Bitch. -Joreen

My therapist told me I’m probably in denial. From she said, a repressed urge to return to the womb. And she could well be right: I’d love to return to the womb. Not because this might encourage the rekindling of emotional bonds, but because I’m now three inches taller than my mother and BOY would it hurt her when I forced entry.
I can only assume I must have hurt her like hell on the way out; that would presumably explain her desire to get revenge by fucking up my life for the subsequent two decades. Or maybe she doesn’t need a reason. Maybe she IS just a bitch. -The Bitch is Back: Wicked Women in Literature

"Sometimes, Dolores, sometimes you have to be a high-riding bitch to survive. Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hang on to." – Vera Donovan in Dolores Claiborne.

Women who break though the imprisoning walls of the Playboys’ Playground are entering a process which is our happening/happiness. This is Paradise beyond the boundaries of "paradise." Since our passage into this process requires making breaks in the walls, it means setting free the fair game, breaking the rules of the games, breaking the names of the games. Breaking through the foreground which is the Playboys’ Playground means letting out the bunnies, the bitches, the beavers, the squirrels, the chicks, the pussycats, the cows, the nags, the foxy ladies, the old bats and biddies, so they can at last begin naming themselves. -Mary Daly

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 10:21:20 PM

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I can be. (BITCH = Being In Total Control of Herself)

I am nice, passionate, kind, caring, and loving... But I can also be stubborn, opinionated, fierce, and a worthy opponent in a situation that warrants it.

I think lots of people think that strong, won't take crap from people just to "fit in" or "comply" with a particular set of expectations, women are bitches. If that is the case, I can be one.

And sometimes, if I am feeling more mean than I am kind and loving, I am like an alley-cat who got its tail stepped on. So, bitch would be a fitting word there, too.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 10:35:43 PM

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I honestly do not care if someone calls me a bitch.

Anyone who knows me and who I am involved with in my life knows that I speak up, say what's on my mind, get moody, do not take crap, etc.

They also know I am kind, compassionate, fiercely loyal, sweet, funny and loving.

So a stranger calling me a bitch has little effect on my life.

As for the word bitch connoting strength? It depends on the woman and the situation. Sometimes, it connotes weakness and lack of confidence to behave that way and other times it displays confidence.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 11:20:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Do you consider yourself a Bitch?

If yes, what does being a Bitch mean to you? Why do you like it?

If no, how does it feel when dominant women either refer to themselves or are referred to as Bitches?

There really isn't a right or a wrong answer. I'm purely interested in perceptions at this time. Of course I have my perception but I'll reserve it for now ;-)

In my experience, some dommes love to refer to themselves as bitches and some get offended at the term. But it's just semantics, and ultimately if you don't use that term, they share the same definition of what is good for them.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/20/2011 11:51:41 PM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

to me it's still an insult to mean that a woman who is rude, cold, condescending and just plain ornery.

i'm fine with that definition too. using it, i'm still a bitch a lot of the time.

bitch is also used to mean something really difficult "changing that tire was a real bitch"
something unpleasant "that meeting was a real bitch" or unfair "life's a bitch"
or something confusing, witness the stones' song, where the word is used to describe love.
it also just means a woman "let's hit the club and score some bitches"

let's see...i can be difficult, i can be unpleasant, i can be unfair, i can be confusing, and i'm a woman. so yea, i'm a bitch by any of those standards as well.

what about syl's definition?

quote:

To me, being a "bitch" means having high standards and refusing to let people push me around. It also means I follow my personal ethics, even if doing so goes against social mores.

motherfucker! that's me too!

so to me it's not an insult because it's fucking accurate. i'm all of those things, and to quote what's her name there, aneka, "it is not name calling if it is truth".

but also like syl said it's not all of me, there's more to me than just the various ways i can be described as a bitch. just like in meredith's song.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 2:07:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So far, then, a bitch can mean everything that's worst about a woman, or anything that's best. Are there any women for whom the word 'bitch' can mean something in between?

Yes - or both, or neither. It's a slang word. A bitch is someone poking fun behind someone's back, or stealing someone's partner, or refusing to back down from something or not giving in to the Man or or or...

It doesn't really have a single coherent meaning.

As for me: am I a bitch? Nah. Can I be bitchy? You bet. I've got a nasty, take-no-prisoners sense of humour and I won't be pushed around. But that doesn't define me, because I also pull faces at small children on the train to make them laugh (fine, fine, ok, I admit it, I pull faces at anyone to make them laugh), and take the caps off old ladies' water bottles for them, and give really good hugs. There is considerably more to me than bitchiness.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 4:52:57 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Sorry LadyA I read the OP as simply being interested in opinions.

And yet, I never used the word opinion. But I did use the word perception a few times ;-)

quote:

Do you want answers from D-types only or can us s-types chime in?

Well my question was directed to dominant women primarily, but I don't see any point in limiting the discussion to them. So please, by all means, chime in!

Sigh. I really shouldn't read/post when I'm as tired as I was last night. I asked about posting because you posted this in the Mistress forum so I like to ask before posting an opinion of a question directed at female D-types.

I take being called a bitch a compliment, given that it's usually men who do that. I find that men tend to call strong confident women a bitch so by doing so they are saying I'm strong and confident...which is a very good thing to be.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:11:43 AM

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Bitch is a word, like many, that I see as a power word based upon how it is used, most of the time. Either to empower, or remove power/demean.

When humanity wants to remove power, we call demeaning names meant to indicate lesser status. Look at all the words, over the years, one ethinicity will come up with for another. And it is almost always a situation where the one doing the name calling is feeling threatened and fearful in some way. So they call names to try and remove the others' power. And women, like many ethnicities have, take the words used against them and turn them into a positive to take back that power.

For me, the word itself is nothing. Just letters and/or sounds. It is the intent in which it is used that matters. Also, to me, it usually says more about the person using the word than it does about the person they are describing.

If a person is directing that word towards me, in an attempt to demean me, that only tells me they feel threatened by me in some way. If it matters to me, then I try to understand the whats and whys. If it doesn't matter, then it generally will register nothing more than a chuckle.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:43:07 AM

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what LaT said

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:28:11 AM

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Am I a bitch? Wellllll.... I can be bitchy - especially if I'm tired. I can bitch about problems that irritate me. I've heard the term "bitch in heat" but I'm sure it was never applied to me. (shup). Sometimes when I'm working on a problem it can be a bitch of a problem. I visited my neighbor's non-neutered dog, the lil bitch, who is cyoot as a button - maybe she's a button bitch?

I can speak the truth and not back down from it. I can stand up to men and women who are abusive. I can walk away from a fight or follow through on it. I can tell people what they don't want to hear and tell them they are wrong without wincing. I can fight for my rights, my family, my friends, my beliefs. I can shoot a gun. I'm willing to die or to kill in self-defense for what is important to me.

I am not an easy woman, nor am I uncomplicated. If these things, these abilities are considered the actions of a bitch, then gladly and proudly I will take the title. I have no shame in the power that is mine. If that is the equivalent of "bitchdom", then yes, I own that place.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 8/21/2011 8:57:05 AM >

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 9:20:34 AM

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I have to say, I truly appreciate the diversity of the responses so far. All the comments were excellent contributions to showing the complexity of the word. I agree with LaT when she says:

quote:

LaTigresse
For me, the word itself is nothing. Just letters and/or sounds. It is the intent in which it is used that matters. Also, to me, it usually says more about the person using the word than it does about the person they are describing.

She's absolutely right. That said, words are also very historically loaded.

I said I would reserve my perception until later (as I didn't want to influence the thread with a position), but I personally prefer to avoid the word. I did, in the past, try to turn it into a positive, reclaiming it as a expression of strength. What I realised however is that there are so many words that are positive and not loaded with negative imagery that I can use: assertive, assured, authoritative. I'm favouring those now.

However...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetieinControl
I'm not a fan of people using the term "bitch" to refer to a dominant woman. In my observations, it's typically used to degrade or put down or it's a perception of a male fantasy that's not always true.

and...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
I would have an issue with someone that called dominant women in general, bitches or presented us as bitches. On a personal level, I really don't care what they call me. It really is no skin off my nose. The perception that we all were bitches and that is what made us dominant, I would argue.

This is definitely an issue, and I believe it contributes to the negative image that many new comers (and certain now bitter) men of of a submissive persuasion. Some dominant women love the image of the bitch and run with it, and that's fine. It's however not representative of most of the ones I've gotten to know.

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 8/21/2011 9:21:12 AM >

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 9:41:31 AM

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The thing with newcomers is that most expect them to come in with a little common sense, decency and social skills. If they are an adult, they should really have some. I do feel that being informative and nice even, are important, however... to those unteachable spirits... and anyone an adult and so clueless could be unteachable because they haven't taken it upon themselves to learn. Learn life, communication skills, social skills and if they want to get laid... they better learn a bit about women.

One example I would like to point out is... the unteachable spirit will refuse to listen, learn or admit their error in a manner that would actually mean they got it and are working on change. They often blame those that would try to teach them a thing or two, no matter how nice someone is about it. (Dude if it isn't getting you what you came here for, you might consider you are doing something wrong and if they are saying so... pay attention.)

Is it our job to nicely teach them how to be an adult and successful at it... or are we called bitches because we call them on it somehow? Must we be ever patient with disrespect even for themselves when they come a fool a beggin?

I will leave that challenge to those with far more... understanding for people that need enabling and excuses for maturing into an adult.

Sincerely

... a Bitch.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 9:51:39 AM

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We all have our approach, Lockit. I find that when they come here looking for punishment and we give it to them by chewing them out, we are actually playing into their fantasy. By taking a less emotionally charged (less bitchy) approach, we actually do not give them what they want. But that's me and it works well for me. That said, sometimes I just ignore as I don't have a mission to educate every wayward wanker ;-)

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 9:58:50 AM

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I can agree with the not giving them the humiliation they want sometimes, but sometimes I don't detect that. I was a bartender, worked in male dominated fields and around men all day long for many years. I saw them in all shapes, conditions of sober or not and I'm not sure there wasn't much I missed seeing. When I thought they ought to be humiliated or might like it.. they were totally clueless and didn't even get that. You couldn't humiliate some of them.

Now that is clueless.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 12:01:19 PM

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FR

See, if it were men talking about their 'manly qualities', some of us would be at least a bit hesitant about applying such qualities to ourselves. They're in the eye of the beholders and it's 'not our place' to claim them, so we'd assume. Yet here are a lot of women saying all sorts of virtuous things about themselves, albeit 'virtuous' in a way that fits thoroughly modern ideas of femininity. This thread is looking a touch vain, I have to say.

For what it's worth: some women who've commented here I've never seen as bitches in any sense of the word so far outlined. To me they've always, frankly, seemed a bit like milksops. No offence. :-)

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 12:06:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

See, if it were men talking about their 'manly qualities', some of us would be at least a bit hesitant about applying such qualities to ourselves. They're in the eye of the beholders and it's 'not our place' to claim them, so we'd assume. Yet here are a lot of women saying all sorts of virtuous things about themselves, albeit 'virtuous' in a way that fits thoroughly modern ideas of femininity. This thread is looking a touch vain, I have to say.

There is nothing vain in defining one's self, unless one is boasting about their virtues. It is actually a healthy exercise to reflect on our behaviour and set goals for self-improvement.

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