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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 12:26:24 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

This is turning too much into a "one twue way" thread.

it's been one from the fucking op, she has been preaching to us all along.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 1:38:32 AM

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thats whay I meant, hannah. Saw what heather copied and realized what was happening. Sorry I didnt make that clearer.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 5:52:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

If it's part of being an adult, why doesn't your adult partner do it too? Domestic service is NOT a normal part of m/f relationships, it is an act of inequality. Perhaps you simply view it as the woman's role in life, but I do not, and it is not something I would ever accept in a vanilla relationships. When I'm living with a man, he can pull his own weight - and if not, then he won't be living with me. Simples!

Do you do all the stereotypical male role chores then? Because the fact is that it takes as much time to mow the lawn as to vacuum the house. If he's doing both, then what are you doing? Are you changing the oil in the car as well, or the brakes or the transmission?

The Man does all those things, none of which am I capable of doing. So why shouldn't I do the house cleaning which I'm faster at while he does what he's better at?

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 7:36:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

If it's part of being an adult, why doesn't your adult partner do it too? Domestic service is NOT a normal part of m/f relationships, it is an act of inequality. Perhaps you simply view it as the woman's role in life, but I do not, and it is not something I would ever accept in a vanilla relationships. When I'm living with a man, he can pull his own weight - and if not, then he won't be living with me. Simples!

My adult partner does does do it every now and then. The reality is that he runs a business and is out of the house at 6:45am and doesn't get back until 6:15p. I leave the house at 8am and get home around 5:45pm. YOU made it about D/s and male/female roles, when it's really just about logic. The person that works the least does the majority.

BTW, with your logic a stay at home mother who keeps house is engaging in an act of inequality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
Am I to believe that unless I submit to absolutely everything and anything my Owner desires then I am not really a submissive? Last time I checked, submissives were allowed to have limits.

Clearly, you get your exercise by jumping to conclusions. Where did I say you're not allowed to have limits? Where did I say you'd have to do everything?

What I said is that I knew coming into this there were going things that I wouldn't enjoy or would do even though I didn't want to. These aren't things that break my limits. Sometimes it's watching the marathon run of BBCs Top Gear because he wants me by his side. Sometimes it's going somewhere I don't feel like going. Sometimes it's about him deciding what's for dinner, etc. Sheesh, drama.

quote:

Luckily, my Owner values my submission and wants me to enjoy serving and submitting to him, which is why he is willing to work on this to make it more enjoyable for me. Slaving away simply because you feel you have to or that you have no choice might work for you but it is not appealing to me.

chastity xxx

Here's a reality check for you. We've been very happily married for 10 years and have been together for 11 years. We're clearly doing something that works. So, feel free to be self righteous, I'll just go on being happy.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 8:55:09 AM

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Training, like most things in life, is used as a fashion trend in D/s. That means it is used in so many different way that the word has lost real meaning. When it comes to the concept of "training" I have decided to stick with the idea that it is habitually conditioned responses. Basically... training is habit forming. (Yay! a pun!) To me, it is basic, and a pretty short lived part of a D/s relationship. It's almost the D/s equivalent of the "getting to know you" phase of living with another person. It can be extended and formalized, but does not have to be. If one wants to formalize training, I would encourage looking into B. F. Skinner's research for the basics of conditioning. While it gets significantly more complex, that's a good starting point.

A word of caution: Like anything else in D/s, extensive conditioning can be deeply harmful. The mind is very flexible, but that doesn't mean that you cannot cause real damage to another's mind. All the proof one needs to ascertain that form of damage as real is PTSD. More than just solders can be pushed into this state. Stockholm's syndrome is another point to be wary of when dealing with conditioning. The line between consent and non-consent gets really blurry really fast in certain circumstances.

P.S. Using sexual pleasure as the only reward for behaving correctly is bound to fail, dramatically. It is too single dimensional to the higher part of our multifaceted minds. It may be enough for the lizard part of the brain, if done consistently in a Pavlovian manner, but even that is limited because it is only a single basic need.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 3:29:30 PM

chastityslaveFE

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Joined: 5/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

This is turning too much into a "one twue way" thread.

Im out.

Yes you're right - the one twoo way being everyone else's way. I've been called a do-me sub. I've been told it isn't really submitting. I've been told it's like emotional blackmail. I've been sworn at, a lot, by a very angry seeming woman for no apparent reason. Amidst all this, only two or three people actually bothered to answer the question. The rest just ranted, a lot.

I also am out. This isn't a discussion board, it's an angry clique looking to vent on anyone who dares ask a question.

chastity

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 3:53:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
This isn't a discussion board, it's an angry clique looking to vent on anyone who dares ask a question.

Well it is a discussion board. The problem here, however, is you asked "What does training mean to you? And how has it played a part in your BDSM journey so far?" and then proceeded to tell people their answers were wrong, rather than receive people's responses as their personal experiences.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 6:07:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
This isn't a discussion board, it's an angry clique looking to vent on anyone who dares ask a question.

Well it is a discussion board. The problem here, however, is you asked "What does training mean to you? And how has it played a part in your BDSM journey so far?" and then proceeded to tell people their answers were wrong, rather than receive people's responses as their personal experiences.

Exactly. Just because you didn't like the answers, doesn't mean it wasn't discussed.

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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to NuevaVida)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 6:52:34 PM

HannahLynHeather

Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
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quote:

I've been sworn at, a lot, by a very angry seeming woman for no apparent reason.

first off twatwaffle, i'm not angry, i just like swearing. and second we did answer your questions. and you called us players and wannabes because we don't do it the way you do. well fuck you duckworth.

you don't like the answers you got, tough shit, a bunch of us just don't happen to see training the way you do.

quote:

I also am out.

bubye, i won't miss you

< Message edited by HannahLynHeather -- 8/24/2011 6:53:22 PM >

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clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to chastityslaveFE)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 9:01:20 PM

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
Yes you're right - the one twoo way being everyone else's way. I've been called a do-me sub. I've been told it isn't really submitting. I've been told it's like emotional blackmail. I've been sworn at, a lot, by a very angry seeming woman for no apparent reason. Amidst all this, only two or three people actually bothered to answer the question. The rest just ranted, a lot.

I also am out. This isn't a discussion board, it's an angry clique looking to vent on anyone who dares ask a question.

I thought you got some pretty good responses.

About 70% of BDSM Message Boards is people arguing about what shit means and they tend to take it pretty serious. If your going to post anywhere, not just Collarme.com, I would make a point to be very clear in outlining your definition and the context of what you are talking about. Making references to unclear examples and leaving the definition in ambiguity will just create drama.

And if you want some more unsolicited advice, learn to let other people have their opinion, even if it's contrary to your own.

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(in reply to chastityslaveFE)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/24/2011 9:22:18 PM

HannahLynHeather

Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
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quote:

And if you want some more unsolicited advice, learn to let other people have their opinion, even if it's contrary to your own.

fuck off. where's the fun in that?

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to DecadentDesire)

RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/25/2011 3:11:01 AM

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The sexism and narrow minded views I have seen in this thread are the most disheartening I have come accross so far on CM. I am new here, so maybe I'll peruse an archived one that blows this one out of the water, who knows. The funny thing about opinions is they are like ass holes, everyone has one and it stinks. DecadentDesire gets two points for adding some reason and accountability. Kuddos.

Edited for typos and clarity.

< Message edited by Endivius -- 8/25/2011 3:13:41 AM >

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/25/2011 4:57:05 AM

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The only way I can respond to the intent of this thread, which is the idea of being "trained" to submit, is with an example.

I have a small very cute black fur person named Trilby. Trilby has been "trained" from an early age that as soon as I pour my tea water in the morning (he has to wait for the electric kettle to boil), we go into the living room and he gets his morning snacks.

This involves me sitting on the bench in the front room and tossing him hairball relief snacks. He has gotten so used to this, he catches the little snacks in his paws and sometimes they go straight into his mouth!! I would love to have a video of it, unfortunately, he considers anyone else (the other cat, the other person) to be a snack *threat,* and gets all discombobulated if they are around.

In any case, it is incredibly cute, and I have never known a cat to be so well "trained."

If I get diverted in between pouring out the tea water and going into the living room (by the bathroom, for instance), he meows piteously as if his very heart is breaking. He KNOWS the rules. Once the tea water gets poured, snacks are supposed to get distributed.

Anyone who has a cat must know I am using the term "trained" in its loosest possible meaning. There is certainly a question of who has who trained.

Does he have *me* trained to toss him snacks at a certain point in the morning? Or is he trained to try to catch the snacks in his paws or mouth? BTW: It was not my intention to do so, it came about naturally as a part of a mutually enjoyable morning routine.

Now, what is the point of this example?

That what many are calling training on this thread, I call developing rituals and routines that allow a couple to merge into a co-dependent (I am using this term in a good sense, not a bad) unit.

For instance, if I do something (like offer to brush his hair) and he reponds positively, one can say I have been trained to make that offer, even though that was not his specific intent.

However, the intent of not just wanting but needing to find ways to please him is to me a core component of submission. The actual act itself (brush his hair for him, or never touch his hair under ANY circumstances) do not matter. What matters is my own desire to be pleasing and obedient. If he never wanted me to touch his hair, that I would enjoy brushing it is secondary to me needing to be obedient.

As has already been mentioned, the idea of training a person by offering rewards (or treats) for their submission is ludicrous. If the idea of being pleasing and obedient is not its own reward, than perhaps the OP has not found a dominant able to bring that out in her. Or maybe she is just a do me .

In any case the OP's premise is a bit too much like the little black cat trained to respond for his treat. That's not submission, it's greed.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/25/2011 7:09:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather
]first off twatwaffle

Dammit Hannah! Coffee out the nose stings. Nonconsensual sadism!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

In any case the OP's premise is a bit too much like the little black cat trained to respond for his treat. That's not submission, it's greed.

Pavlov's dog?

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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/25/2011 8:19:11 AM

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Pavlov's cat, more like.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/25/2011 8:20:55 AM

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or Cat's pavlov?

*grin*

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