What it is to be Gorean

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What it is to be Gorean

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> What it is to be Gorean

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What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 3:52:21 PM

SixMore2Go

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Well, before I am removed from these forums, I am of a mind to have me say in regards to things Gorean.

It is my belief that the vast majority of those who profess to be Gorean have in fact completely missed the central tenets of the philosophy of Gor. It has naught to do with appearances, nor with any role. It is not about how you appear to others, it is about how you appear to yourself.

It has naught to do with being a warrior nor a master nor a slave. The philosophy of Gor has naught to do with external details, it is concerned solely with what is within a person. The fixation on being a Master or warrior is a misguided one, it comes from having confused the milieu and the message. I know submissive men who are far truer Goreans than many a self-proclaimed Master. It is not about Masters and slaves, it is not about men over women, it is not about free and not free. Those things are only the trappings of the tale that was employed to impart the message.

It is your nature that matters, not some amorphous "nature" nor that of another. The rules to which you must conform are your own; the expectations that you must meet are your own.

The philosophy of Gor is very simple, it has but three pillars.

1. Be true to yourself.
2. Live in accordance with your nature.
3. Do what you do with all that you are.

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 4:48:58 PM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

It has naught to do with being a warrior nor a master nor a slave. The philosophy of Gor has naught to do with external details, it is concerned solely with what is within a person.

Methinks that you are still confused about the nature of the forum you're posting on.

_____________________________

Aren't you glad we got smart bombs, it's a damn good thing that our bombs are clever

It's a shame that our kids are dumb, but our bombs are smart, what a lucky thing now

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Post #: 2

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 4:53:59 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
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Oh no, I was told very clearly by the queen bee herself that this forum was for the discussion of things related to the Gorean lifestyle, and that is what it is that I have done.

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 5:12:47 PM

Ishtarr

Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Oh no, I was told very clearly by the queen bee herself that this forum was for the discussion of things related to the Gorean lifestyle, and that is what it is that I have done.

I wasn't implying that you weren't discussing things related to the Gorean lifestyle. I was implying that you still mistakenly seems to think that self-evident statements, like the one I quoted above, need to be said on this forum.
You won't find a single regular poster that would claim that being Gorean has got anything to do with external details, or with being a warrior, a master, or a slave.

If it's a discussion you're after, posting something that leaves something to discuss will get you further than merely stating the obvious.

_____________________________

Aren't you glad we got smart bombs, it's a damn good thing that our bombs are clever

It's a shame that our kids are dumb, but our bombs are smart, what a lucky thing now

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 4

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 5:24:28 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
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Ah well then, if you agree with me summation of the philosophy of Gor, then the proper course of action would be to say. "Aye, this is so".

But, since you have not done so, it would seem that you have some objection to it. Or does your objection lie only with that one line that you feel is unneeded. If so, then allow me to explain my reasons for including it. You see, I was under the impression that those who know little of Gor, even perhaps those from the-milieu-that-must-not-be-named, might by chance be finding themselves here in this forum, and that perhaps, just maybe, it might be of benefit to them to see those words.

Just because it is self evident to you now, does not mean that it is to all, and if you are to be honest, there was a time when it was not so clear to you, as it was with every one of us, meself included.

Now then, with that being dealt with, are you in agreement or no with me summation, with me three pillars?

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:07:47 PM

Kirata

Posts: 7257
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

If it's a discussion you're after, posting something that leaves something to discuss will get you further...

For some reason, I keep thinking he's Spanish.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/20/2011 6:08:35 PM >

(in reply to Ishtarr)

Post #: 6

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:10:44 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline

Ah, but that's just sad. The stereotype/asshole quip was far superior. You're slipping old man, I honestly expected far better from you.

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Post #: 7

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:10:57 PM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Just because it is self evident to you now, and if you are to be honest, there was a time when it was not so clear to you, as it was with every one of us, meself included.

If I'm being honest, I can state that there wasn't a single time in my life where it was not self-evident to me that the Gorean philosophy is not about being a warrior, a master, or a slave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Now then, with that being dealt with, are you in agreement or no with me summation, with me three pillars?

I agree that your summation describes tenets of the Gorean philosophy. However, I disagree that those 3 tenets are enough to summarize the whole.

_____________________________

Aren't you glad we got smart bombs, it's a damn good thing that our bombs are clever

It's a shame that our kids are dumb, but our bombs are smart, what a lucky thing now

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 8

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:13:51 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
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So you were born with a full and complete understanding of the Gorean philosophy? That's fascinating, I have never heard of such a prodigy before.

Now as to the three points, what is it that you would add?

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:20:29 PM

Kirata

Posts: 7257
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Ah, but that's just sad. The stereotype/asshole quip was far superior. You're slipping old man, I honestly expected far better from you.

My goodness, I must have really gotten one in under your skin...

I think I'll have a cookie.

K.

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 10

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:31:14 PM

Ishtarr

Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

So you were born with a full and complete understanding of the Gorean philosophy? That's fascinating, I have never heard of such a prodigy before.

Are you just trying to prove that you're not here for a debate, or is there another reason you're determined to take statements to mean something other than what they're communicating?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Now as to the three points, what is it that you would add?

I don't think I'm the most qualified person here, by a long shot, to set out to define the Gorean philosophy, so I have no intent of attempting to do so. But as far as an example of something your summary left out goes, the fact that a Gorean's ethical system is based on a concentric circles model comes to mind.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 11/20/2011 6:35:30 PM >

_____________________________

Aren't you glad we got smart bombs, it's a damn good thing that our bombs are clever

It's a shame that our kids are dumb, but our bombs are smart, what a lucky thing now

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 11

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:35:29 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline

Oh no, don't be having that cookie just yet. You see, old man, it is just that for the most part, your barbs fairly drip with wit and humour, I laugh and laugh, even when they are aimed at meself. But, this last, I fear that it simply was not up to your own usual high standards.

Now, don't be blaming us, you have nobody but yourself to blame for this, for it was none other than you yourself that set the bar so high as it is. Such is the price of genius.

< Message edited by SixMore2Go -- 11/20/2011 6:48:42 PM >

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:43:55 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
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Ah, the ethical system. Well you see, I do not believe that there is such a thing as "a Gorean ethical system", each Gorean will define their own ethical system using the model that best suits their own understanding. Thus, one Gorean's may be based on this model, and another's on another model.

To attempt to establish a universal model or code of ethics, would be antithetical to the entirety of Gorean philosophy, for to do so is to impose the ideas of one upon another.

And as for your qualifications, well now then woman, how could you not be qualified, you are by far and away the better intellectually than most on these boards.

< Message edited by SixMore2Go -- 11/20/2011 6:51:10 PM >

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 6:54:43 PM

Ishtarr

Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

Ah, the ethical system. Well you see, I do not believe that that there is such a thing as "a Gorean's ethical system", each Gorean will define their own ethical system using the model that best suits their own understanding. Thus, one Gorean's may be based on this model, and another's on another model.

To attempt to establish a universal model or code of ethics, would be antithetical to the entirety of Gorean philosophy, for to do so is to impose the ideas of one upon another.

Goreans may use different models, but their application is in every single example of mention based on a concentrical circle model.
They don't use the same ethical guidelines with all people, and whether they'll consider a certain act to be the right or wrong course of action will be determined by the relationship they have with that person. Whether it's a person of their Home Stone, a friends, a stranger, a legal slave, a man, a woman, part of their immediate family, and so on.
So while different Goreans may use different codes of ethics, Goreans base their application of such ethics on a concentric model.
It's -to me at least- one of the mosts clear dividers between a Gorean's approach to ethics, and most Western systems of ethics.

_____________________________

Aren't you glad we got smart bombs, it's a damn good thing that our bombs are clever

It's a shame that our kids are dumb, but our bombs are smart, what a lucky thing now

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 14

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 7:10:37 PM

SixMore2Go

Posts: 190
Joined: 7/1/2009
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Ah I understand now, I see where we differ. You, to my mind, have fallen into the all too common error of mistaking the tale for the message. The ethical systems portrayed in the books is not intended to be a model to be emulated, but rather as an example of how such an ethical system could have developed given the underlying individualism of the philosophy. The concentric nature of the ethical system is truly only applicable to the society for which it was invented. Now, it can be used as an example, but it is not a model, attempting to adapt it to this world, is fruitless, as it simply was never intended for such. It is just a literary device to make the imaginary more real.

Too many, again, in my mind, fall prey to this. They forget that as well as having a philosophical message, the books are primarily literature, albeit not overly well executed literature, designed to entertain. Now, in order to do that, the reader must be able to suspend his disbelief, and in order for the reader to be able to do so, the tale must have a consistency, it must be, for the most part believable, so that the truly fantastic aspects can be accepted. And that is the purpose of the vast majority of the culture of Gor described in the books. The society of Gor described in the books is but only incidental to the philosophy, it is not Norman's idea of the ideal society, it is but his idea of a society that could develop under his overarching philosophy.

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 7:41:28 PM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go
They forget that as well as having a philosophical message, the books are primarily literature

You and Norman seem to be in disagreement on that.

_____________________________

Aren't you glad we got smart bombs, it's a damn good thing that our bombs are clever

It's a shame that our kids are dumb, but our bombs are smart, what a lucky thing now

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 16

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 7:47:29 PM

OrionTheWolf

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Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go
1. Be true to yourself.

Subjective and non quantative. There is still a framework to be true to yourself within.

quote:

2. Live in accordance with your nature.

Remove "your" and this is correct.

quote:

3. Do what you do with all that you are.

This is an effect, not a foundation.

There is a reason that Gor means Home Stone in the Gorean language. There is a reason that Home Stone is spoken of so often, in so much detail, and to such degree, in the series.

There is a reason why the caste system, as described by Lange in the series, is so important.

There is an order of nature that biology, and sociobiology support. Patriarchy is a primary component of that order.

The archives have much of these issues already discussed if you want to do any research.

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Die die glauben fordern keinen Beweis. Denen die zweifeln genuegt kein Beweis.

(in reply to SixMore2Go)

Post #: 17

RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 8:09:43 PM

Kirata

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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixMore2Go

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "a Gorean ethical system", each Gorean will define their own ethical system using the model that best suits their own understanding. Thus, one Gorean's may be based on this model, and another's on another model.

To attempt to establish a universal model or code of ethics, would be antithetical to the entirety of Gorean philosophy, for to do so is to impose the ideas of one upon another.

It is true that Gorean ethics are not susceptible of being encompassed by an articulated "system" of rules and commandments. Gorean morality is agent-centered, not action-centered. But neither is it a relativistic ethic that allows anyone and everyone to define for themselves their own "model" of morality according to their understanding or misunderstanding of the philosophy.

To quote Harry Stack Sullivan, "we all more simply human than otherwise," and Lange would agree. It is precisely this univeral human nature that Gorean philosophy celebrates, and to which it exhorts us to be true. The essential claim of Gorean ethics is that there exists a morality which is inherent in our nature as human beings, and it is this that the philosophy directs us to discover and honor.

Codes of behavior vary on Gor, from caste to caste and from culture to culture. But the purpose isn't to create interesting entertainment. The purpose is to show that the underlying morality is universal, because our human nature is universal.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/20/2011 9:07:06 PM >

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/20/2011 8:49:50 PM

Cherylmazana

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Joined: 10/4/2007
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Sixmore,
You said this

quote:

it is not about free and not free.

Your wrong, it is about are you free or not.

However I am not talking about M/s here, I am talking about freedom, the freedom to be who you are, the freedom that adhering to societies rules can take away, it is about choosing what form of slavery or self mastery you are most comfortable with and if that slavery can in fact free you.

Also this

quote:

I know submissive men who are far truer Goreans than many a self-proclaimed Master

Define what you call submissive please.

Cheryl

_____________________________

Sometimes just because it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, doesn’t mean it is a duck, it could instead be a plastic replica that leads ducks to their ruin.

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RE: What it is to be Gorean - 11/21/2011 4:00:44 AM

Terrah

Posts: 372
Joined: 7/5/2007
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I want to know who is Queen of this net? Did you really need permission from a woman to post here is that what I am reading?

Terrah

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"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyhow." (John Wayne)

(in reply to Cherylmazana)

Post #: 20

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