RE: Do I have the right to be upset?

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 7/23/2006 8:24:26 PM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Greetings..~smiles~

While in agreement with much of what you have posted MasterandCommand Sir in regards to "what a slave is or is not"..it is only a accordance because of my personal views for myself as to what "slavery" is to me, and means to me. At some point I had to arrive at the decision of what "my needs" were. Yes my needs. That happened to be several but the main and reoccurring need was to surrender to a Master who was for the most part in-tune with everything that meant something to me.

What you describe as being a slave..to me is the end result. It is what myself, and am sure many others who define themselves as slaves hope to achieve..but slaves do not come ready made like this. It is a learning process that can and will only be learned through trial and error..triumphs and failures.

I do have to dis-agree with the use of the term " a true slave". There is no such thing simply by the shear fact that slavery is illegal. Thats fact and to the point. With that..this again leads one right back to the beginning that the use of terms is defined only by those who use them, and happen to agree in kind. It goes no further than that.

You can not even draw on much of your analogy of what a slave is from anything in our real historical slavery when it was legal. Being a slave does not mean that they must be highly sexual. Where did this come from? One has nothing what so ever to do with the other. It can yes..and often does..but isn't some sort of pre-requisite.

From my eyes as a slave to the Owner..what makes me different from a submissive is the simple fact that I did not and do not negotiate terms to ensure I got and will get what I want out of the relationship. What I did do was express my likes, dislikes, thoughts on or about issues, what I saw in my future..and I listened to His. That is what brought me to beg His collar.

Because of this..the main path was set. The road or roads to get there however, are not pre-determined, and hold the failures and success, and if what each has said was true in what their ultimate goal was..they will get there.

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

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Post #: 101

RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 7/23/2006 9:42:13 PM

BohemianSub

Posts: 12
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: burningdesire4U

Her posting of this thread http://www.collarchat.com/m_348769/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#348769 barely a month before starting this thread, answered a lot of questions for me, about what is going on...

I would agree with you on this as well after reading both threads in their entirety. The move was probably a mistake from the beginning and 18 is too young to give up one's freedom. There haven't been enough life experiences to help make informed choices. Whether submision or slavery, neither should be gone into lightly.

Being in a poly situation myself, as the beta submisive in training, I know my place because my dom has told me my place. There is no discussion about place - He is the dominant, he rules. If I cannot deal with that - it is my place to leave. But if the dominant cannot control the situation, then he is not skilled enough to be a polydom and therefore shouldn't be...

There are always choices - but where things go wrong is when the we try to change the very definitions we embrace. We either are something or not - end of story.....

(in reply to burningdesire4U)

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 7/31/2006 8:44:23 AM

WillowRain

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

I have not read this whole thread yet but I have to say something. It sounds like you are being disrespectful of her time in service and their history together. What she has, she has earned. You are new to the relationship and the situation. It would be unreasonable in my opinion to expect to have exactly the same rights and connections as she does. You need to ask yourself, whether or not you could be okay with it being your turn when it is time to pick the NEXT house in six or seven years, when your service has proven as consistant and valuable as her own.

OF COURSE he will never love anyone like he loves her, just exactly like he will never love anyone like he loves you. Love is unique in each pairing of souls and that is part of the beauty and mystery of it.

Quit expecting exactly equal status without having the history or doing the time to prove yourself worthy of it. I do think you should be treated well. Consider asking for something for you to focus on to add to the beauty of the home. If the house is to be her baby, could perhaps a garden in the back be your own? Find a way to feel better about the balance. Be greatful that your time and effort will be rewarded. If you had served a man for ten years and then he brought a new girl in, and suddenly SHE was the one picking the colors for the house..... you have to admit... that would so badly stink.

best wishes,
willow

(in reply to submissivekisses)

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Post #: 103

MasterandCommand - unasked for opinion - 7/31/2006 9:21:23 AM

WillowRain

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
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I am not sure if you realise what I am about to say or not. The tone you use in your writing is very hostile and I think it lessons your ability to be affective in the arguments you make. Your tone, and derogatory attitude toward certain terms or choices, or heck even posters, lessens the strength of what you might like to express. It makes you read as being more angry and confrontational, than confident and secure in your thoughts and opinions. If you chose to take some of the hostility out of your language choices you might find that more people are better able to hear what you are actually trying to say. You and I have very differant opinions, and because of the hostility you express, I have to kind of read through your posts editing out some of that vitriol to actually be able to get your underlying intent. You may not care about that. But if you want to be heard and understood, not just to have a format to speak, then I offer these thoughts and ideas for your consideration.

Best wishes,
Willow

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

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Post #: 104

RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 7/31/2006 6:37:49 PM

kateygirl

Posts: 17
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline

As unpopular as this stand might be, i have to agree with MasterandControl to some extent. A slave serves in whatever way her Master choses for her to serve.   As for equality, that can't exist.   The slaves' needs are not equal and therefore treatment can't be equal. It can however, be fair. Keep in mind that what is fair is determined by the Master.

If you have chosen your Master wisely then you will be able to submit total power to him in safety, knowing that you are cherished and your needs will be met by Him, no matter what anyone tells you.  Again, be warned that your needs will be determined by Him, not you. If you have not chosen wisely, then that will be apparent early on. If you cannot trust Him to see to your needs and happiness then perhaps you have the wrong Master. Personally, i would never stay in a relationship where i was not wanted, by either Master or his alpha. That is asking for trouble.

Quite frankly, in my experience, the hardest part is to form a relationship that is deep and lasting with your sister slave. Every attempt i have made at poly previous to this one has ended for that reason. It may be up to you to reach out and make the relationship right with your sister right by accepting your position as beta.

If you came to the relationship as a beta, then be a beta. If a beta is what your Master desires then that is your place.  The alpha gets some special treatment from Him. That is the nature of alpha/beta. How He treats her as an alpha does not diminish your worth as His beta.

However, if that is not what you thought you were getting into when you signed on to this family, or you don't trust Him to know what you need, (sounds doubtful) then perhaps you should look at moving on.   If you find yourself in an alpha/beta relationship that does not suit you, i suggest you leave and find someone you can serve beside with trust and honor. my Mentor told me something a long time ago that has stuck with me for years. He said, "It shouldn't have to be that hard."
Just my two cents

kateygirl

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

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Post #: 105

RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/1/2006 9:16:06 AM

ToGiveDivine

Posts: 650
Status: offline

I'm really new to this, but I thought the extent of the relationship was supposed to be defined and agreed upon at the beginning of the relationship?

If the Slave knows up front that they are to be sub-human and have no say, no rights, and no recourse for whatever the Master wants, then she has no reason to complain or be upset.

If the constraints on the M/s relationship are more relaxed, then she probably does have the right to have feelings, complain, etc.

Can't say for sure if she has a case or not unless we know the conditions in which the relationship that were initially agreed upon.

If the relationship is supposed to be equal amongst the slaves, then she should feel upset and should say or do something about it.

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

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Post #: 106

RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/4/2006 5:14:44 AM

WillowRain

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

I think everyone, no matter status, has a right to their feelings. It makes sense in some situations to have parameters in how those feelings can be expressed and when, but they shouldn't be negated or burried. How can someone control or guide someone day to day if they don't know where their head and heart are? Anyone who has utterly NO interest in a bottom/submissive/slaves feelings would scare the ever loving crap out of me. How anyone could successfully explore D/s dynamics without having high levels of communication is beyond me. How would it ever last? Or grow deep? Or ever be authentic and real?

Empathy, good communication skills, go right up there for me with strength, integrety and sadism. Not optional, have to be part of the set. Everyone has differant needs, so I speak only for myself of course.

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/4/2006 11:14:01 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterandCommand

First of all I never said that a slave cannot express her feelings... yet at the same time if she wants control then she should not be calling herself a slave in the forst place... including all of you flamers and whiners that don't like somebody who stands solid... I am not a armchair forum gossip that lives on internet becasue there is nothing else for me to do... as is clear for so many others (just look at the number of posts and by whom the posts are by). The vast majority is by those very people that want to redefine the roles in order to suite them and then push their definition on to others... expecially new people that don't have a clue.

A submissive serves with the mutually agreed right to define the limits and boundaries of that servitude. A slave enters consensually into bondage which removes all rights save those granted by their keepers, as they are in this vein owned property. It is my experience that most who use the term slave do so inaccurately. Many speak of themselves in this way when they are in fact still living in a relationship of limited negotiative servitude.

Neither one way is superior to the other, and while submissive is oft viewed as the beginning of slave, the two are of course not always linked in this way. To understand where you fall, you need only consider the terms soberly, free of the romantic drivel and sensual obfuscation that so often muddles them.

Deal with it..

I'm in full agreement with what you say here. A sub has the right to limits, a slave is a piece of property. If only these web players and real life pretenders could see if you don't do the job you don't get the title. We'd have so much less confusion, egos and hurt feelings to contend with here.

Before I get blasted I'd like to say I'm not even at a point I consider my self a full submissive. I have to say I'm at the level of a service oriented, sensual bottom at best. I aspire to be a full submissive one day, but I know I have a very strong independent personality that keeps me from always yielding without a fuss first.
In some peoples eyes I'm the best sub they've met, in others I'm a disrespectful, topping bad sub.
I wish there was a test you had to pass to get appointed your title.Now people can just pick a title and think they should get treated like they spent years really earning it.

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

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Post #: 108

RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/4/2006 11:21:54 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivekisses

Recently I have moved in with a Master and a slave...and I already can honestly say I am inlove with them...however, I am very frustrated at this point in time. I have been sleeping on the couch for two nights now..by my choice and Masters permission, at the same token I feel as if I have to. He said he wanted time alone with his other slave..and that is fine. I just don't feel very included at times. I know they both care for me very much...but the other slave has stated "Master will never love anyone like he does me..and I will never love anyone like I do him." This makes me angry...angry only because I do not want to be sad. My own personal views on poly is when three (or more) people come together and love each other equally. I thought that was what I was coming into.; Am I wrong..to feel this way?

This is why I would not allow emotional or other hieracrhies in a poly thing. ( I don't do them anymore, but allow me to elaborate)

I don't want a servant to feel entitled to special treatment. I'm not a union, there is no seniorty. One of the main reasons I see poly fail, is this entitlement of an "alpha sub".

It makes it hard to keep a third person when they are made to feel like a third wheel. Beat them down long enough, and that wheel falls off.

Not a very bright way o conduct something like this.

(in reply to submissivekisses)

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/4/2006 5:00:49 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3235
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill
A sub has the right to limits, a slave is a piece of property.

But even property has limits on its use; unless of course you prefer damaging your property, then tossing it out and getting a new piece of property.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to onestandingstill)

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/7/2006 7:05:47 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill
A sub has the right to limits, a slave is a piece of property.

But even property has limits on its use; unless of course you prefer damaging your property, then tossing it out and getting a new piece of property.

Exactly why it's important on knowing who you submit to, or allow yourself to be owned by.
Your happiness within your relationship is directly linked to how well a Dom naturally wants to meet your needs & wants you to be happy.
In the way BDSM is designed a diligent, fair, loving, strong, Master or slave can not meet the needs of just any partner. It takes a union of like minds, lives, desires and paths to make it work.
The best slave in the world can not fully submit to just any Master, it takes the right Master to allow her to be the right slave & vice versa.
I'm not saying it's right that these oppressive, using, lazy Doms have the right to abuse a slave, just that in her accurate position her choice is to follow or go her own way somewhere else.
Suzanne

(in reply to kyraofMists)

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/12/2006 11:15:22 PM

Domwidower

Posts: 4
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline

I find agree that you have committed yourself to be a slave, but I beleive that your bringing to the attention of your master the difficulties you are experiencing is not whining, but is keeping your master aware of the problems you are having and giving him, as is his right, the opportunity to help you solve them. Although you are committed as a slave, this is a consensual slave relationship, and your rights and needs need to be taken care of...

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

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RE: Do I have the right to be upset? - 8/13/2006 8:40:09 AM

Ladyofthemanor

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivekisses

. I know they both care for me very much...but the other slave has stated "Master will never love anyone like he does me..and I will never love anyone like I do him." This makes me angry...angry only because I do not want to be sad. My own personal views on poly is when three (or more) people come together and love each other equally. I thought that was what I was coming into.; Am I wrong..to feel this way?

Why does it make you angry? You are the new girl, you don't know what they might have had to go through to make their relationship work. i know any girl coming into our relationship would not get the same attention, scening, and benefits as i do as his Alpha. The reason behind this is that as his slave, and the past i have with Him, W/we have had to go through a lot to get where we are now, and no slave coming in will be able to understand the hell W/we went through to be Master/slave. Ask your sister slave why she feels that way about the love? What did they have to go through to become M/s? Also ask them why did they want poly to begin with?

slavelilly

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Post #: 113