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Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly situation?


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Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly situation? - 1/30/2012 12:41:59 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1580
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Hey there,

I realize that relationships come with a wide variety of structures, but a D-type friend of mine made a statement today that made me curious. I didn't phrase the title quite exactly right, but it is the gist of what I would like to ask. I know that there are poly households that do not have a hierarchy between the s-types and I know some do. As I don't have a good frame of reference to know this answer the question is which type seems to work better, the ones with the hierarchy or not? Or does it depend on the s-types involved?

Thanks in advance,
heartfelt

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Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/30/2012 1:45:33 PM   
Endivius


Posts: 948
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		the question here is very open ended. What works for some will be disasterous for others, it's all about how everyone feels about eachother, how they connect together and the chemistry. Some s types have a very dominant personality, but are still submissive to the right person(s). It certainly can and does work for some poly families. Most certainly it will not work for others. It really just depends on the people involved and what they need. As far as one "system" or "type" being better, that seems like a fallic comparison, it's simliar to comparing apples to oranges. It really does just come down to the people involved.

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Complacency Is the Enemy of Progress.

I'm not difficult or wierd; I'm complicated.

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/30/2012 3:11:04 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 4736
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: online 		In our household, I'm the Alpha submissive. I'm a very dominant person and I'm his wife.

Truly, it depends on the people involved.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/30/2012 5:09:26 PM   
shylilbear


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: online 		If it works for all the people involved, then that's what works best. For us, there is no Alpha. We have different needs so Daddy handles us differently to accomodate that, but otherwise we are equal. I wouldn't be able to handle having to be submissive in any way to another sub. I wouldn't want to be Alpha either though because I don't like being put in a situation where I would feel I'm above another sub. That doesn't mean I can't lead, or teach, or train if needed, because I do enjoy that. I just would not be able to ever see myself as having a higher station, rank or whatever you want to call it.

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity.
To err is human, to really fuck things up takes a computer.

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/31/2012 2:09:33 AM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		Humans are basicly at their core a pack/ family oriented animal ... this tends to lead to a heirarchy whether intentional or not ... Any group will settle itself in to a natural order whether someone leads INTENTIONALLY or not ,and the rest follow , then again a few tend to hover on the fringes and follow the group rather than the one.
This is why polyamoury is what it is if you think about it down to its core. I think what varies is the style ... some are naturally more agressive ...but if overdone can be abusive, Some naturaly passive but again in the extreme become human doormats. Its possible that a group can meld well enough that the leader is not readily obvious at first ... such as myself ... I don't "Tell" people what to do unless its an emergency... I always "ASK" as a simple courtesy but anyone who knows me knowa its not reaaaalllyyy a question or request.
Some assume a naturaly sub ordinate dominate position like my wife and Osidegirl , wherein they will bow to the ALPHA be it male or female , but anyone ELSE rocking the boat will be met with tooth and nail. Thia arrangement is actually common to wolves , it frees the Pack leader/Alpha/Dom to concentrate on leading the pack as a whole , while the dominate mate handles the individual concerns and needs of the pack.

Not to be disrespectful here and I think I understand what your trying to invision but really it sounds more like "roomates" with benefits , which would be more swingers than PolyAmourous. However there ARE always exceptions to the rules and as Endivius noted not everyone is the same ...

* personal note ... Vamp on occasion even leaves teetmarks in my metaphoracle butt too ... but usually theres a good reason for it.

< Message edited by Ogrelord999 -- 1/31/2012 2:10:05 AM >

_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/31/2012 5:23:27 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1580
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your answers, they make a lot of sense and that was kind of what I figured the answers would be, as with most things the answer is it depends. (grinning) I agree with you shylilbear on a great deal of what you said, but i also know that i can be and am when needed exceedingly strong willed and i will back someone up if necessary, a great deal like Osidegirl. Thank you again for your answers, I appreciate the time you took to answer my question.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/31/2012 9:29:43 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 6465
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		People need to be who they are! Who they are should dictate if an alpha needs to exist in the dynamic or not. I am the alpha in our dynamic and it works very well. I find the best relationships are between people who can be themselves and are embraced and accepted for it

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"Respect.... It is the ability to see people as they are, to be aware of their unique individuality" Eric Fromm

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/31/2012 11:53:22 AM   
shylilbear


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ogrelord999

Not to be disrespectful here and I think I understand what your trying to invision but really it sounds more like "roomates" with benefits , which would be more swingers than PolyAmourous. However there ARE always exceptions to the rules and as Endivius noted not everyone is the same ...



I'm not sure what you mean, or why you think that. We are much more than swingers or room mates with benefits. We both belong to DaddySatyr. I just don't see any reason for her to be submissive in any way to me, or me to her. I just refuse to get caught up in anything that might perpetuate a power struggle or feelings of inferiority when there doesn't need to be. There is ONE boss in Daddy's house, and that's Daddy.

_____________________________

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity.
To err is human, to really fuck things up takes a computer.

(in reply to Ogrelord999)
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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/31/2012 12:40:13 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 4736
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: shylilbear
I just refuse to get caught up in anything that might perpetuate a power struggle or feelings of inferiority when there doesn't need to be. There is ONE boss in Daddy's house, and that's Daddy.


With our situation: He might be the boss of the house....but we own that house together. As his wife and legal co-owner of our assets, I'm always going to have a higher rank than the second in some aspects of our family.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 1/31/2012 1:28:23 PM   
shylilbear


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: online 		I understand what you're saying there Osidegirl, but to me that's different than having a higher rank in a D/s way. The way I see it is that it's a natural given that you would have more say in matters like that. What I have a hard time with is the idea that, if everything else being equal, someone has a higher or lower rank simply because of who was involved first. I know that works well for many poly families, and I have no problem with that whatsoever. I just know that I would not do well in that type of dynamic, Alpha or not.



_____________________________

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity.
To err is human, to really fuck things up takes a computer.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/4/2012 12:33:41 PM   
Crawl4Me


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		It all depends on whats going to work in the household. My hubby is an Alpha sub, and with another male, he is always above them, however if I have a femal or tranny, then he is below them.

(in reply to shylilbear)
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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/4/2012 5:02:30 PM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		"cream Rises to the top" Not to sound arrogant its just true and I'm very much in agreement with you ... Its like pagans that advertise in the local paper for a new High Priestess ... some things form naturally do defy nature is to invite its wrath so to speak


_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/4/2012 5:08:57 PM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		I dont remember speaking OF you directly , so im not sure why you seem offended ...but as it were I am just saying that some things form naturally ... and if there is no cohesion in the situation ... then no emotional bonds ... MOST human groups form theiur own sense of "pack" orginization and an alpha emerges on their own ...

Did I respond to the wrong post errr something ...???

_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


(in reply to shylilbear)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/4/2012 10:53:54 PM   
shylilbear


Posts: 125
Joined: 11/25/2011
Status: online 		I'm not offended, just curious as to why you said what you did.

Now you've prompted another question. Why do you feel there's no cohesion in a dynamic that doesn't involve a hierarchy?

_____________________________

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
One who gains strength by overcoming obstacles possesses the only strength which can overcome adversity.
To err is human, to really fuck things up takes a computer.

(in reply to Ogrelord999)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/5/2012 5:21:59 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1580
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ogrelord999

Humans are basicly at their core a pack/ family oriented animal ... this tends to lead to a heirarchy whether intentional or not ... Any group will settle itself in to a natural order whether someone leads INTENTIONALLY or not ,and the rest follow , then again a few tend to hover on the fringes and follow the group rather than the one.
This is why polyamoury is what it is if you think about it down to its core. I think what varies is the style ... some are naturally more agressive ...but if overdone can be abusive, Some naturaly passive but again in the extreme become human doormats. Its possible that a group can meld well enough that the leader is not readily obvious at first ... such as myself ... I don't "Tell" people what to do unless its an emergency... I always "ASK" as a simple courtesy but anyone who knows me knowa its not reaaaalllyyy a question or request.
Some assume a naturaly sub ordinate dominate position like my wife and Osidegirl , wherein they will bow to the ALPHA be it male or female , but anyone ELSE rocking the boat will be met with tooth and nail. Thia arrangement is actually common to wolves , it frees the Pack leader/Alpha/Dom to concentrate on leading the pack as a whole , while the dominate mate handles the individual concerns and needs of the pack.

Not to be disrespectful here and I think I understand what your trying to invision but really it sounds more like "roomates" with benefits , which would be more swingers than PolyAmourous. However there ARE always exceptions to the rules and as Endivius noted not everyone is the same ...
* personal note ... Vamp on occasion even leaves teetmarks in my metaphoracle butt too ... but usually theres a good reason for it.


Not sure what you meant by that, whether that was in response to my op or to shylilbear, but am not sure what anyone said to make you think of swingers?

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Ogrelord999)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/5/2012 7:01:49 AM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		Okay time out ... No ones pointing accusations at anyone for being anything here ...its a stated opinion here and want to make that clear above all else ... As a Polyminded individual there are differences among the different types of activity.

A hierarchy forms naturally try as you like to be sophisticated or evolved , nature takes its course on all of us , and like it or not "Alphas" rise while others submit.

in any social/family group. this creates a situation that leads to such terms as "Love" , "respect" , "Loyalty". ergo my suggestion that the "POLY" without the "AMOURY" is swinging ... period , as a definition not an accusation. ... so relax

It could be that Im not getting exactly what your asking? as I was responding to your original post ... however Im not taking a negative stance just an observational , swingers are fine ... I'm just not inclined that way. The long term results I have seen with swinging couples I know personally seem to end in disaster ...no matter how much fun they had to begin with. Hell We all build our own hells and prisons anyway I have my own to contend with so I'm not about "judging" anyone elses .

I do know that there is a tight bond between Elizabeth and I ... Its Natural but others such as her family see it as controling and thus it MUST be abusive ... its a twisted sense of modern definition really . Its simply that the trust is strong enough to the point that she doesnt question me on most decisions outside her particular realm of authority in our relatoinship ... some departments are mine and my word is law ...others are hers and they are condoned and reinforced by me ...simply because I trust in her and her love completely ... Others see ua as simply a "great Couple" and dont really see either of us as dominate after some time with us ... My Point here is that this is really a broader questions than you realize ...there are so many variables to each individual involved , preference and personality all skew a straight answer really.

So in the classic psychological ploy ...why did the term "swingers" bother you ?

< Message edited by Ogrelord999 -- 2/5/2012 7:34:13 AM >

_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/5/2012 7:14:46 AM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		Well Im glad cause Im not trying to bust anyones chops here ...I'm acctually just tryna make friends and apperantly failing ...

Its just a universal axiom ... Chaos rises and destroys order ...order returns and chaos abates ... Hippie communes largely failed in the "free Love" experiments of the 60's because no one wanted to be the "Heavy". Its inherant in the DNA plain and simple ... no escape.

Look ... in simple terms ... HOW MANY sucessful poly relationships do you know ?

NOW ... HOW many do you know of that slam into a wall and crash?

WHY? lets break it down ... I am submitting to you that those that burn in doing 90.... failed to clearly have a well defined and comfortable hierarchy ... gods I know this sounds brutal here but we look for higher order and holier than though reasons to justify most of our behaviors as a species ... God is great and all but at the base of it were animals ... and Nature rules ...its actually to my mind a for of "natural selection" we express this on a higher esoteric level in phrases like " it wasnt meant to be!" essentially that is correct but no so much fate or an act of God. Its more about hormones and genetic traights that were programmed with ... Nature breeds strong

I realize the point of any union may NOT be BREEDING but thats exactly where the natural drive for sex comes from ... Hell I have five kids ... love em all ... wasnt after kids when they were concieved ... I was just bein a big ol hump monkey ! :)

did that help any ? ... yes folks I tend to ramble a bit simple point is there is always a hierarchy whether we want it or not ... really that sums up what Im obviously not expressing clearly

< Message edited by Ogrelord999 -- 2/5/2012 7:17:30 AM >

_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


(in reply to Ogrelord999)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/5/2012 7:28:28 AM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		a more amusing rare colloquialism (yes I intended the oxymoron)

My Old man was an Ass... its geneticly inherant to some extent ... but often when I was a boy and doing something and having problems he would walk up and say " with a little bit of force you can F**k a mule!"

Okay now I can be exceptionally bright sometimes but on others inherit a major case of the dumbass. Till the age of 30, I would think "why in the hell would you want to f**k a mule in the first place" I often wondered if it wasnt something to do with the fact his side of the family hailed from Western VA... a sparcely populated mountain reigon ... I guessed maybe it got really lonley.

On my 30th Birthday however I was with some friends chillin , drinkin , and watching the meteor storms that occured that year ... in between the silences I was looking back over the years and remembered my old man ...and his little criticisim. Again I asked "Why F**k a mule? ... and it struck me like a meteor !

YOU DONT ! thats the point ... If you try to force something that doesnt form naturally your going to end up with something you dont want ... like Mule dung on yer pecker ... metephoricly I hope.

Vile yes but I had to admit there was a certain earthy wisdome in spite of all its vulgar immagery

Shawn

< Message edited by Ogrelord999 -- 2/5/2012 7:36:43 AM >

_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


(in reply to Ogrelord999)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/5/2012 9:12:24 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 4736
Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: shylilbear

I understand what you're saying there Osidegirl, but to me that's different than having a higher rank in a D/s way.


Not really. When you stop to think of it: The house itself gets run the way I say it does....the second doesn't get a vote on things like how the house gets taken care of or the renovations. That pretty much automatically puts me on a higher rank than the second.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to shylilbear)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Does there need to be an alpha s type in a poly sit... - 2/5/2012 9:58:02 AM   
Ogrelord999


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/9/2011
From: United states
Status: offline 		Is your second accepting of that ? Does she and you discuss things like decorating? and then you and or your Dom make it so?


Here theres definite divisions of authority on like house decorating and renovations , Mancave (attached Garage) and the Den (which I'm redoing steampunk) are my absolute authorities ... we split and cooperate on common areas ... The master Bedroom and the Guest room are all hers ... cause well DOm/ Sub ... whatever if the "lady of the house isnt happy ... no ones happy!


Ive also always taken the stance that I dont care if the powder room is pink ... as long as theres Bogroll when I need it what difference does it make?




_____________________________

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
~Socrates

" Cold hearted Orb that rules the night ... steals the colors from our sight, red is grey and yellow white, but we decide which is right ... and which is Illusion." ~ Moody Blues


(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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