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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 3:57:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
I wasn't aware that either Afghanistan or Iraq were involved in that.

I'll invite you again to use your search engine of choice regarding the events of 9/11/01.

You can leave Iraq out of your search, though it seems you want to talk about anything other than our President leaving those troops in harm's way, while taking away their ability to fight back.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:02:56 PM

xssve

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I've researched it thoroughly my friend, the Taliban even offered to turn Bin Laden over if we could prove he did it - we couldn't, so we attacked the Taliban.

I suggest you google Caspian reserves, and/or Caspian pipeline if you're still unclear as to why we invaded.

And you can't leave Iraq out of that, considering the timing between the day the Caspian reserves were downgraded to the day US troops started massing on the Iraqi border.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:05:34 PM

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The strategy and it`s a sound one,is to withdraw on a time table and stick to it.

Speeding it up or slowing it down is counter productive and dangerous to our troops and to our mission......

Notice folks....how the OP`s concern isn`t about the troops or the mission?

Or with giving any reasonable or plausible solutions to some tough issue?

As I`ve pointed out in rich`s other trolly,alt.-reality posts/threads......it always comes back to disaster-bush and an attempt at vindicating those world-class fuck ups.....

Some of which was letting Afghanistan unravel,flubbing bin-laden`s capture,and prolonging the Afghan mission through gross negligence.

Which we`ve been paying dearly for.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:14:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Read some fucking Kipling.

He probably thinks you mean "let them eat cake"

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:19:15 PM

xssve

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Night attacks aren't fighting back, they're attacks.

As for the rules of engagement: "We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever proven to be a threat.”

- Stanley McCrystal.

Changing he rules of engagement to stop American soldiers from indiscriminately murdering Afghani citizens can only decrease the threats to those soldiers, given that the commander of those forces refuses to even defend the current policy, and the failures of that policy are currently available for view on the front page.

This is no precision operation, it's kill 'em all, let god sort them out.

Which probably sounds peachy to chickenhawk armchair warriors like yourself, but is eventually going to get us kicked out of the ME for all time, and good riddance.

Poor tactics, poor strategy, poor results - what else is new for you guys?

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:21:14 PM

xssve

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Well this is going well for you at least: Iraqi Women More Oppressed Than Ever

Guess it wasn't a total loss eh?

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:26:26 PM

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It appears that the looney Right still hasn't realised that the future of Afghanistan will be determined by the Afghani people's choice between the Taliban and the Karzai Govt.

The Right still appears to be under the delusion that military tactics can deliver success. Wrong - they can only deliver failure. Notable recent military contributions include the burning Korans fiasco and the slaughter of 17 civilians, which helped tilt the balance of probabilities towards failure for the Western project.

Something was needed to redress the balance. It seems that this agreement - to end night raids - is it. Probably far too little far too late but time will tell ..... Trying to fashion this agreement into a stick to beat Obama with tells us much more about the desperation of the GOP in the US elections than anything else.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/8/2012 4:27:15 PM >

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:39:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

I've researched it thoroughly my friend, the Taliban even offered to turn Bin Laden over if we could prove he did it - we couldn't, so we attacked the Taliban.

Yes. There was a whole chain of events, involving a massive, nonpartisan majority of Americans on their feet and frothing in the aftermath of a terrorist attack, and a gaggle of warlords who keep their women in hefty bags are trying to stand in our way. If you were actually opposed at the time, how did you think that was going to work out?

I was thought it was an awful idea from the minute I heard Afghanistan mentioned. There is no such thing as victory there. It's where empires go to die. I also knew our going in was inevitable. When then candidate Obama claimed this was the war we needed to fight, I hoped like hell he was smarter than that, and lying. No such luck.

He'll neither offer them victory, or bring them home, and now President Obama is taking away one of the best weapons our troops have.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 4/8/2012 4:41:28 PM >

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:41:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
As for the rules of engagement: "We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever proven to be a threat.”

- Stanley McCrystal.

/bad joke
After you shoot someone, they are not a threat, they are a corpse
/end bad joke

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:43:50 PM

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We've restored the opium production to pre-taliban levels, so what the fuck are we still doing there? Are we afraid that the Taliban will shut down opium fields again?

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 4:44:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Well this is going well for you

Oh, I dunno. In terms of watching everybody squirm to talk about anything but the subject, it ain't a bad illustration.

C'mon. Advocate for negotiating from a position of weakness.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:28:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
I've researched it thoroughly my friend, the Taliban even offered to turn Bin Laden over if we could prove he did it - we couldn't, so we attacked the Taliban.

Yes. There was a whole chain of events, involving a massive, nonpartisan majority of Americans on their feet and frothing in the aftermath of a terrorist attack, and a gaggle of warlords who keep their women in hefty bags are trying to stand in our way. If you were actually opposed at the time, how did you think that was going to work out?

I was thought it was an awful idea from the minute I heard Afghanistan mentioned. There is no such thing as victory there. It's where empires go to die. I also knew our going in was inevitable. When then candidate Obama claimed this was the war we needed to fight, I hoped like hell he was smarter than that, and lying. No such luck.

He'll neither offer them victory, or bring them home, and now President Obama is taking away one of the best weapons our troops have.

Re. the offer to hand Bin Laden over, it was hard to take the Taliban seriously at the time. One minute they offered to send him to Pakistan to stand trial, then they claimed they didn't know where he was and they also stated he was free to wage jihad from their nation http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80482&page=1

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:37:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Rich, as I said at the outset, we have no obligations to that country nor any country, we have a long history of walking off the job on our 'allies' when we figure out (once again) we fucked up.

What I'm really sick and tired of, though, is our continually getting into these countries, fucking them up, and then trying to rebuild, only to walk off the job and, in the long run, make everything worse for us.

I was really hoping Obama wouldn't have continued that same stupid shit. The one area I truly had hope for Obama....

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:41:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

We've restored the opium production to pre-taliban levels, so what the fuck are we still doing there? Are we afraid that the Taliban will shut down opium fields again?

Never gonna happen...we had to pay the taliban to fight it`s production and even then they really didn`t do much.

As long as there is a market,there will be others to fill that market.

We didn`t go their to conquer the country,using a soviet style invasion template on our situation there now is meant distract from our reality there.....now.

Pretending now tha we had a choice in the matter is as cowardly as it is late to the table.

If we didn`t make a deal,we would have been asked to leave.......then as unwelcomed guests ,a soviet comparison could be used.

We went there to get bin-laden and destroy al-queda`s ability to make war.They are only inspirational at this point.....if that.

So we did what we came to do and we`re withdrawing.They way that should happen should have an unlimited amount of attention and resources to make the withdrawal safe and secure but also to make sure the Afghan government is as stable and secure as possible.

But we aren`t miracle makers and shouldn`t try to be either.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/8/2012 6:43:42 PM >

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:45:54 PM

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quote:

Why are we in Afghanistan to begin with? I'll invite you to Google the events of September 11, 2001. Don't expect me to argue in favor of the action, but I understood it was inevitable.

It was not inevitable. It was theater.

There were a number of other ways to handle that short of invading a country that didn't attack us.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:47:51 PM

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Not invading Iraq would have been one of them.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:48:46 PM

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quote:

Please tell me how you are getting that impression, Muse.

Post 55.

Wars end with negotiations, Rich. The days of crushing them underfoot ended with the Persian Empire.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 6:58:14 PM

xssve

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Whats the subject? Changing a failed policy?

Everytime some shit like this has happened, there have been both soldiers and civilians killed in retaliation, and the goddamn General in charge can't even come with one good reason why.

If anything, it would seem Obama took way to long to do it.

You're smarter than McChrystal I guess, maybe we should send you over there.

< Message edited by xssve -- 4/8/2012 6:59:17 PM >

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 7:03:45 PM

xssve

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And the "tool" that allowed us to put a bullet between Bin Laden's eyes was not night raids, it was intelligence, which requires the support of the indigenous population - it wasn't going out at night and shooting random non combatant members of that same indigenous population for sport so armchair warriors could cum in their pants thinking about it.

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RE: Oh what the fucking fuck??? - 4/8/2012 7:08:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Lost for words eh?
Added:
If there are any other cons brave enough to answer my question,please add to the answer....how exactly you would handle the FUBAR situation our president was handed?

I'm perfectly brave enough to answer.

How would I handle it? I'd have done this by the end of 2009.

I'd have told Karzai that we weren't there to establish his Administration, that the only reason we took down the Taliban rule was because they were harboring al Qaeda, and that the only actions by the Taliban we would respond to militarily would be those against our military. His country was his to run and defend. At that point, I'd either have double-timed it against al Qaeda, or pulled our troops out. Yes, we likely would not have gotten bin Laden. We'd have been mocked as "losing," but I'd rather have that PR hit than sacrificing more of the military's best.

I'd have had our troops out by the 2010 elections and along the southern border.

How's that grab ya?

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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