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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 1:27:52 PM

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This is a fast reply...

I'm sorry folks, but it must be done. If one is going to talk about defining "love", it is a moral imperative that the quote come out.

"Love is that condition in which another's happiness is essential to your own."

I mangled it slightly, I'm sure, none the less, that's the essence of it.

Carry on...

(Attribution left as an exercise for the student.)

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 1:28:57 PM

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If you can choose or control your love, it's not love. Love is a force of nature, it isn't weak.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 1:36:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts

If you can choose or control your love, it's not love. Love is a force of nature, it isn't weak.

You are describing the type of love that can create havoc in a life and if that force of nature... ever so strong that it can fuck you up... well, you are talking about a fever... an illness, something that hurts you by your not having any control.

That fiery force of chance overtaking one, proves how non lasting it can be because it wasn't a choice and how fire can become out of control. Love should be a choice with fire! It can be and it is and it is stable even if it doesn't last. It doesn't rip up your life. A love based on nature... rather than personalities, common ground and many other things that has fire... will consume rather than be healthier.

If you are helpless in love... without the choice, you just may end up totally helpless and in recovery at some point.

You can believe what you want to... but my love which is very real... is a choice and a fire.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 5/11/2012 1:38:15 PM >

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 2:21:53 PM

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No, we can't choose or control your love, or any feeling, for that matter. But we can and should choose how to respond to it.

I am disappointed that the store didn't carry my favourite brand of ice-cream. I cannot control or choose my disappointment. I can choose and control, however, how I am going to respond to that, whether I'm going to kick up a big fuss with the store about not carrying my flavour, choose an alternative, or just go home. I should, as a mature, civilised, person make a concious choice on which response is appropriate for the situation and my desired outcome.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 2:33:25 PM

subbyinlosangele

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I've encountered a number of people here and elsewhere, whether sub or Dom, male or female, or any other label in the myriad swirl, who have strong opinions where love is concerned, and how (if at all) it integrates into their play.

Limits (as I have encountered them) are usually consigned to physical activities, not emotional or mental; yet that doesn't mean they cannot exist in a qualitative or quantifiable state. On that presupposition (skip if you don't agree, otherwise this wastes your time): can love be a hard limit? Would you view it as one, or know of someone who does?

This will all boil down to personal viewpoints, I know; but the discussion of outlook and application holds its own merit. If you are inclined to offer discourse, please do so.

Sure. It can be a hard limit, in the sense that someone won't engage in BDSM activities with someone they don't love. It's akin to someone who is dating vanilla saying they won't have sex with someone they don't love.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 2:45:47 PM

poise

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

Can love be a hard limit? Would you view it as one, or know of someone who does?

I think that many happy and fulfilling relationships can and do exist without love being the driving force.
To many “like an awful lot” is still a whole lot of goodness. What would concern me more is being in a
relationship with someone who is incapable of loving.

I know that I personally wouldn’t be able to dictate the flow of my emotions, nor would I want to.
However, let’s say I do have love as a hard limit, and we start relating, and you weasel your
way into my heart. I would see that as a limit I was able to go beyond, and more something
to be celebrated than to find fault in. Unless I had a lapse in judgement and you were a douchegoblin.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 2:45:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts
If you can choose or control your love, it's not love. Love is a force of nature, it isn't weak.

Yeah, I'm in this camp. I can certainly control what I do about love. But anything that I would call "love" is not something so easily tameable.

To the larger question, for me love, sex, and relationship all go together. So for me, the absence of love (in the full-on romance novel sense) would be a hard limit.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 3:04:48 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

So for me, the absence of love (in the full-on romance novel sense) would be a hard limit.

This.

< Message edited by SylvereApLeanan -- 5/11/2012 3:05:14 PM >

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 3:15:25 PM

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Love to love you baby :) (70s song reference)

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 3:26:00 PM

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For me, Love is never having to say, "I'll get you a towel."

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 3:35:47 PM

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Could someone hard limit the other person falling in love with them? Certainly.

I would see it happening more likely with a person who had a primary partner but had an open relationship and started a secondary relationship with someone who could play at a level that the primary could not. In that case, making it clear that if they fall in love, that's grounds for ending the relationship is eminently sane. It eliminates unwanted drama, it warns the secondary that he/she won't leave their primary, and that the secondary is not going to be invited to join the relationship.

In that case, if the person in the primary relationship began having feelings for the secondary, he/she should end that relationship to not be tempted. If it was the secondary who began having feelings, they should end it before their feelings would be hurt worse.

I've also heard of self confessed commitment phobes warning play partners about this, so they don't get ideas of happily ever after.

If someone says they aren't available for a relationship, smart people take them at their word and don't go off into fantasies of changing them.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 3:37:41 PM

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quote:

Yeah, I'm in this camp. I can certainly control what I do about love. But anything that I would call "love" is not something so easily tameable.

To the larger question, for me love, sex, and relationship all go together. So for me, the absence of love (in the full-on romance novel sense) would be a hard limit.

Thanks Jeff!
I have zero interest in "fly by night"/ "casual relationships", so no intimacy, closeness, respect, trust, etc. means no relationship.

*Let me add that MANY of the activities that I desire/enjoy the most, are intimate, very naughty, and very sexual.*
lol
You are lucky if I even let you touch me on my arm.

I am a Dominant, and not a switch, and I can't imagine engaging in 20% of what interests me, without being very close.

I am not touching a stranger's dick, or .....
Oh goodness!! let me censor myself!.
<<--- so very innocent.

I do think a lot of this might hinge on what the D and s, want/need from the relationship.
Too tell you the truth, I probably would need trust more than love, if I were the submissive.

I stumbled into this "lifestyle" around 40ish, so I think it's easier for me to stand my ground.

I do think that if I was involved in this "lifestyle" in my 20s and 30s, I would have a different take on things.

I can't do casual relationships these days, cause it would only leave me wanting and worse off than being single.

I am not saying I have to be utter and completely in love, but I am telling you I need to feel damn near close to it.
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 5/11/2012 3:57:27 PM >

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 3:48:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

For me, Love is never having to say, "I'll get you a towel."

Explain?

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 4:45:24 PM

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Limits can be emotional and/or mental. A lot of what we all do is extremely mentally connected (not just physical)...hence why so many people have strong opinions (personal bias) about emotions such as Love.

Regardless of emotions, what's important is that there is a mutual connection (mental drive) going on between two people. Even physical attraction is a mental state.

People don't have to Love each other for D/s nor to get their kink on. For some it easier and better (call it a form of simplicity).

Emotional stability is not only from within, it also depends upon the people we have in our lives (on various levels). Some people can and will drive other people crazy. (Call it a Chemistry Combination).

There are also, other mental considerations to take into account. Some people desire to more to (be used/use) compared to being Loved or loving another. So people it's a balanced mix. Others would cringe at the thoughts of being more used/abused than loved. Some won't even engage in verbal humilation at all (top/bottom of it) because it conflicts so much their emotional/mental state of mind.

How you feel and think about Love is not the same as other people. The world is a Diverse place full of all kinds of different people... that's what keeps it interesting.

Hope this post makes sense.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 5:02:50 PM

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FR-

What you're describing to me is a NSA no strings attached type of relationship. That's a perfectly tangible "limit". There's no expectation of marriage or kids, or at least, that's the deal. I've rarely met a woman who really meant that, or at least, didn't break it later. Of course that speaks to my own age group and range.

I.e., I think if that's what someone wants, they can seek it and agree to it, but who knows what will happen IRL in real life. I know myself that I always form some sort of emotional attachment that one could call love, even if I know it's a fling or temporary and not meant to last. I'm a romantic, so they always get a little piece of my heart anyway.

< Message edited by Karmastic -- 5/11/2012 5:03:41 PM >

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 6:19:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts
If you can choose or control your love, it's not love. Love is a force of nature, it isn't weak.

Yeah, I'm in this camp. I can certainly control what I do about love. But anything that I would call "love" is not something so easily tameable.

To the larger question, for me love, sex, and relationship all go together. So for me, the absence of love (in the full-on romance novel sense) would be a hard limit.

Me too. I'm a hopeless romantic. For me, D/s and BDSM is a very intimate relationship and I couldn't 'give' my whole self to it without being in love and having that feeling reciprocated.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 8:08:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitkat105

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts
If you can choose or control your love, it's not love. Love is a force of nature, it isn't weak.

Yeah, I'm in this camp. I can certainly control what I do about love. But anything that I would call "love" is not something so easily tameable.

To the larger question, for me love, sex, and relationship all go together. So for me, the absence of love (in the full-on romance novel sense) would be a hard limit.

Me too. I'm a hopeless romantic. For me, D/s and BDSM is a very intimate relationship and I couldn't 'give' my whole self to it without being in love and having that feeling reciprocated.

KitKat you are still fairly young. I am curious if you had the love or your life for 20 years, and then he was gone and your are now 50 something. Would you answer the same?

I know you cannot answer that but I think the point at where you are at in life changes that answer greatly.

(edited because I misspelled young horribly)

< Message edited by mummyman321 -- 5/11/2012 8:32:41 PM >

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 10:02:27 PM

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quote:

the answer to any "can x be a hard limit" question is universally YES

Correct.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 11:42:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitkat105

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts
If you can choose or control your love, it's not love. Love is a force of nature, it isn't weak.

Yeah, I'm in this camp. I can certainly control what I do about love. But anything that I would call "love" is not something so easily tameable.

To the larger question, for me love, sex, and relationship all go together. So for me, the absence of love (in the full-on romance novel sense) would be a hard limit.

Me too. I'm a hopeless romantic. For me, D/s and BDSM is a very intimate relationship and I couldn't 'give' my whole self to it without being in love and having that feeling reciprocated.

KitKat you are still fairly young. I am curious if you had the love or your life for 20 years, and then he was gone and your are now 50 something. Would you answer the same?

I know you cannot answer that but I think the point at where you are at in life changes that answer greatly.

(edited because I misspelled young horribly)

If that happens, I'll just become a crazy cat lady.

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RE: Love: A Hard Limit? - 5/11/2012 11:43:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

For me, Love is never having to say, "I'll get you a towel."

bwa hahahaha! true love is sharing sleeping on the wet spot.

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