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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 9:35:03 PM

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Moontearz,

thank you for sharing your story. I can imagine that that must have been a very difficult time for you. On the other hand you took out of this a extremely important aim, to stay -even if somebody is fighting with unfair methods- in the future true to the way you handle conflicts.
This is a good example for what i thought, this thread can give us all, examples of difficult situations and the way people find their way through them.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 9:35:07 PM

LadiesBladewing

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In terms of personal moral dilemmas, a friend of mine, in a committed, closed same-gender poly relationship, came to me and told me that when he traveled, he would often find a "playmate" for the night, or for the couple of nights he was in a given city. I was a beloved friend of all 4 members of the closed quad, and part of me ached with the desire to let the other friends know what was happening. However, I had recently entered training for the ministry, and felt like what was told to me in confidence was something I had a responsibility to respect. I chose to talk to the man who had confided in me, and explain to him the possible implications of what he was doing to people who trusted him -- especially since he didn't know anything about the men he was sleeping with when he traveled, and they were as often casual as safe.

I wish I could give the story a happy ending. On the positive side, he -did- tell the others what he'd done. On the negative side, all 4 of them died within 3 years of each other from AIDS... two from side effects of chemo, one from CMV, and one from AIDS pneumonia. Before they died, they lost everything they'd earned in their lives -- they had to sell everything they had to pay for medical care, their families disappeared out of fear of "catching" their disease, they lost their health and they lost their faith -- and they lost each other, and the trust that had made their relationship a 15-year "miracle" to most outsiders.

I don't think it would have made any difference if I had told the others what I was told. I am glad that my friend chose to do so, but in the end, it was too little, too late, and I lost 4 amazing friends and mentors to the experience.

As a professional, I face this conundrum on a regular basis. I am often told things that could be harmful to others, and I have certain limits -- if the individual at risk is a child, I notify authorities. If 3rd parties not involved in the original situation could be hurt or die, I inform the individual that either they make it right, or I will intervene. Other than that, the best I can do, because of ministerial confidence, is to try to help the individual see a way to be forthright in his or her dealings with others. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they're not, and sometimes we spend months on it with no progress at all. On several occasions, I've passed my clients along to another pastoral care provider who was willing to accept that there was unlikely to be any progress.

I am direct and forthright in my dealings, to the best of my knowledge. If I discover that I have inadvertently misrepresented something, I do my best to make it right. I will not stand back and refuse to speak on a situation that I know is wrong, just because it makes others uncomfortable. Compassion does not mean overlooking an injustice -- it means cherishing that there is a hidden side to the pain, and doing what one must to balance things without destroying either side of the scales. "Compassion is defined as "sorrow for the sufferings or trouble of another or others, accompanied by an urge to help.". I express compassion not by trying to dismiss an injustice, but by doing whatever I am able to re-balance that injustice... and sometimes, where one has been amassing a large negative balance of pain due to inappropriate actions, there will be a landslide of pain in the direction of that individual before the scales are balanced again.

Da'Avatar ZWD

www.klashaan.org

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 9:45:01 PM

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My hardest one was when my mother was undergoing dialysis and had multiple health problems. The doctor told me that all her veins that they normally use were shot and the only one left to use for dialysis was in her thigh, but that would mean amputating her leg because it would cut off the blood supply. She had no quality of life left so my brother and I decided not to amputate and to discontinue dialysis. She died 6 days later.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 9:49:05 PM

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PlayfulOne,

i am happy to read, that your father died the way he did. Because a very close friend of us died last week due to cancer. I will not go into details and only his wife, brother and adult children where with him in the last night, but what his wife told me, his death was most horrible.

Even then, he died being surrounded by his family and this family is really loving family.

I can sense in your words a very deep love to your father, but i understand the dilemma, i would have asked me the same question.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 9:52:39 PM

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Slavejali,

thank your for your two posts. I am very happy that you made the connection from the little dilemmas to the big dilemmas. Because like you, i have made the experience that, if we conduct ourselves every moment in a honourable way (or at least try to) the extreme times will find us better prepared and with a clearer mind and soul.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 9:55:33 PM

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Lordandmaster,

you are not trivializing and you know it:-)., because that was one of the reasons for this thread, to show that moral dilemmas have are so various, thank you for your story.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 11:01:58 PM

FelinePersuasion

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My x claimed he felt we had to break up because he was going through some emotional shit and needed space, he couldn't handle the needs of a relationship well we finally decided not to break up but to give each other space, I gave him 5 months to get his shit together or I'd leave, and he spent the 5 months mooning over another girl I found out later, I cried and grieved for a while over weather to break up with him or not since the 5 months were coming to a close with no change.

It was the right descion. All the shit he spewed about needing time and space to work on his issues with his x who jilted him, was just spewed shit not even 5 days later my supposed best friend came online, after weeks of me not seeing her and says norman and I are dating. I didn't mean it to happen it just did. Bull shit it just happend he'd been mooning over her for weeks, fairy this and fairy that and fairy needs me to.... And he'd been lying to me for weeks about what he was doing. saying he was going for long walks to clear his mind when he was really going to her house to hang out.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/12/2006 11:19:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne
When my father was dying from cancer , they gave him 3 to 6 months from the time they discovered it. About 3 weeks from then one Sunday afternoon when his brother was visiting he made peace with it, relaxed and just let go, he passed away within moments. I still feel guilty because I was happy that he didn't linger on and suffer for months. I guess I feel guilty because I am never really sure If I was happy because he didn't suffer or because I didn't have to watch him suffer.

K

No reason to not be relieved for both. I am currently watching my father die a slow and painful death. To see him in such agony is unbearable. He hates what this is putting my mother through, and is concerned about all the time off work I am missing for him. Both you and your father were spared a LOT of pain. This does not, however, make losing him any easier. I am indeed sorry for your loss.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 2:42:19 AM

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Littlepita,

thank you for sharing your experiences. I started to follow your lovestory on literotica some months ago, and i told my husband how much i wish that everything will went well for the three of you. I had no idea that you had to work through such a difficult situation.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 2:47:14 AM

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Ownedgirlie,

thank you for your story (albeit a glimpse).

My father said concerning a decision i made and my doubts some months later: Stay true to your decision, this is the way to be sane. It was a tough task at the time, but it proved right.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 2:51:07 AM

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Ninasharp,

thank you for your experiences. Confession is when you talk to catholic priest? I still think the idea is very good, but i heard so many bad stories about it, but the concept is a good one.

That your child turned out to be one of the brightest lights in your life, is so beautiful. There are times, even when all the odds seem to stand against our plan/way, when we have to follow our inner voice of doing the right thing.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 2:53:03 AM

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Skittykitty,

thank you for your story. A very difficult situation for everybody, but especially for a
child, that is between his parents.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 6:45:30 PM

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Lady ZWD,

thank you for sharing this experience. It must have been so saddening to watch the situation unfold.

Concerning compassion, your definition of it and the way you choose to live it in the world, are what i tried to write in the other thread. As a friend or somebody who gives cousel we judge, we have a moral position to the situation told to us, but we must try to give counsel for the specific person asking us, not for ourself (again my language problem arising:-)).

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 6:47:30 PM

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Proudsub,

thank you for your story, what for a heartbreaking situation.

ZD

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 6:49:51 PM

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Feline Persuasion,

thank you for sharing your experience. To be betrayed by 2 people who are very near to oneself, is the kind of situation that can tear people apart. I am glad to read, that you find a way through it.

ZD

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/13/2006 6:54:34 PM

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As a closing of the thread, let me thank you all again. I feel that what my idea was of opening that thread has been accomplished. That there are situations in ones life, that are not as easy to judge, than one would think. And that it takes for every situation like that a strong personality to travel through it and learn from it, but that starting with good decisions in minor situations leads to being more secure in extreme situations.

ZenDragoness

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/14/2006 2:17:40 PM

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I passed up college for over a decade to take care of my grandfather, who was 3/4 disabled, had multiple heart attacks, at least 4 major strokes, and was simply too much for my grandmother to take care of full time, since she couldn't afford either a live-in nurse nor a nursing center. I watched the only father figure I had die, day by day, for almost 12 years.

This caused a major rift between me and my mother, since she refused to even come visit her own father, but made several trips to see her father-in-law, who was also dying. It's still a pretty ragged wound, truth be told.

While trying to take care of my grandfather, my grandmother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, which is a veritable death sentence if the tumor is outside of the pancreas. I watched the strongest woman I know slowly lose her sanity from the ever increasing pain and pray nighly for God to take her and end the pain. The day she died, I had to pretend being my mother because she couldn't be bothered to come up for a visit for a number of reasons, including helping my half sister enroll for college.

Almost 5 years to the day of my grandmother's death, I was diagnosed with malignant skin cancer, and faced the strong possibility that it had also matasticized, most likely spreading to my lungs and pancreas. There is still a shadow in my lungs that I refuse to have a biopsy done on.

I also face the strong probability that I will end up dying from the migraines that I have had almost monthly since I was 10 after an accident. Being 10 and told by the neurologist that you will most likely not live to see retirement age kind of destroys the concept of childhood.

Does it matter what I have gone through? Generally only to me. I've had to make some seriously shitty phone calls to people over the years, or had talks with people that no one should ever have to make. What matters is that you press on and don't stop living your life, regardless of what hurdle you have to jump to manage it. It's the people that want to wallow in their misery, or hide in drugs/alcohol, that earns my contempt.

Pain is what makes us human. Living is what makes the pain worth the effort of going through. One of the few things my great grandmother told me that still sticks out in my head.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/14/2006 2:27:00 PM

Arpig

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There is no such thing as a "moral" dilema...when faced with any course of action, a person with a personal moral code can determine very easily what the right thing to do is.

I have such a moral code, and rarely find myself wondering what to do in any given situation, and when I do have to wonder, it is a case of weighing the degrees of harm that will accrue to the other person...and in that case always go with the lesser degree of harm.

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/17/2006 11:46:14 PM

FelinePersuasion

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It took me a while to see my way through it. I had a lot of bitterness for a little bit. but I found myself someone better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness

Feline Persuasion,

thank you for sharing your experience. To be betrayed by 2 people who are very near to oneself, is the kind of situation that can tear people apart. I am glad to read, that you find a way through it.

ZD

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RE: Dilemmas, moral and other - 6/18/2006 12:06:59 AM

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This isnt so much a moral delima as much as it was the hardest decision of my life. My brother was dying and I was taking care of him at home. On Christmas day, I decided to not go to visit my mother in the nursing home because I felt it was more important to be with my brother (His last Christmas). He died on my birthday, Jan. 5th and due to my mothers dementia, we decided not to tell her that her only son was dead. Three weeks later my mother died. I try not to regret not seeing my mother on Christmas day, as I didnt know what the future held, but I sure wish I had taken the time to go and see her. It was extremely hard having two funerals in one month.

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