RE: "Protected "submissive

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: "Protected "submissive

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: "Protected "submissive

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/19/2006 5:22:03 PM

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Julia,

I am not putting a value judgement on a collar, at least not in this thread. What I am discussing is the realities, as I see them, of wearing a collar of any sort as protection. Where do you see me denigrating anyone? There are others discussing the whole "weak" thing but I am not. I am just trying to understand the logic of how a barrier that doesn't work on the people you want it to work on is somehow seen as effective. So far I have yet to get an answer other than "it feels good" or something along those lines and I was hoping someone would come up with an answer that makes more sense to me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/19/2006 9:15:31 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I was not directly referring to your post through out my own, but the whole thread. I am sorry if I insinuated you were denigrating others, I just was answering about 4 different points in one post, probably not a good thing.

It helps in that most will honor that piece of leather, and the one's that won't will be directed to the dominant that put the collar there. It gives the submissive a way to say "Please talk to the dominant that brought me, he is over there" If they will not respect that then the submissive can go directly to the person that brought them. If it is a statement that you are with a group of people and do not want to be bothered... I really do not see the harm in that.

To be honest, I am a little nervous about public play and I am a very extroverted sort who has no trouble speaking up. It is my first experience in this realm and it is something I have wanted to do but I didnt want to go alone. I do not think it is weak to be nervous about it, and I really think that the symbol does no harm for women like the one in the OP, so what is the trouble with putting it there? Even though i will not be wearing a collar of protection as such, I will be wearing a fetish, play collar and my partner in crime will be right there. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't go.

I think that people that have been doing the public play thing for many years are maybe slightly forgetful of what it is to be a newbie to public play. As to LA, I think that some of these "novices" (which when it comes to public play I am one) probably come off like you think they do.. especially if they announce loudly to anyone who cares to listen they are "protected" by whatever Lord pulled a dog collar out of his bag for the evening. But if it is someone that feels somewhat intimidated because several doms teased them about their first public play experience, well the collar doesnt harm her does it? It doesnt sound like a starry eyed newbie, it sounds like someone that had their boundary breeched by people that have been in the lifestyle so long they were not sensitive to how she might be overwhelmed by their jesting.

Im sorry I thought you were judging novices if you weren't Crappy. Im always sticking up for people that I havent even met... bad habit of mine is feeling empathy for people that are overwhelmed....I get a little heated about it.

We all have weaknesses ...some of us admit it, others of us do not like to show it ever.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 6:23:51 AM

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Julia,

The people I am judging are those who hand out such baubles. I think that too many use it as a snare for exactly those people who need protection the most. Kind of like the old line about "lets not have sex, let me give you a massage instead"...and we all know the point of that is to get you naked, worked up, and ready to have sex.

In a lifestyle (and yes I hate the word but it works here) where the submissives seek those with power, acting as the powerful protector is a powerful aphrodisiac for the submissive and is a power trip for the dominant. Of course there are ones out there who handle that well, but it is ripe for abuse and I have seen that abuse over and over again and so as a concept I am against it and always will be.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 6:36:27 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
But if it is someone that feels somewhat intimidated because several doms teased them about their first public play experience, well the collar doesnt harm her does it? It doesnt sound like a starry eyed newbie, it sounds like someone that had their boundary breeched by people that have been in the lifestyle so long they were not sensitive to how she might be overwhelmed by their jesting.

Other than giving the perception to people that she's not a responsible adult who can take care of herself and this perpetuating the idea that submissive = unable to take care of yourself and needing someone else? How harmful can that be?

Yeah, being a responsible mature adult and taking care of yourself is WORK. It's so HARD to project an attitude of confidence and be able to gracefully tell someone no. How horrible. So, instead of dealing with it, they shove it onto someone else. And they learn that lesson- they don't need to take care of themselves, someone else is ready to do it for them.

The reality is that it's hogwash, it perpetuates a false stereotype, it continues illusions of submission, and allows someone to not take responsibility for themselves and their own attitudes.

Like I said in my first post- there are TONS of subs who adore the idea of acting like they can't be mature responsible adults, and TONS of doms who adore the idea of being used as a crutch and as a "protective knight" to help the subs out. My posts aren't going to change that.

But I think the entire system is just a way to excuse women for standing up for themselves.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 7:30:05 AM

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

LA,

I disagree, I think that "system" you speak of is co-dependent. The dominants create a culture of fear, some fall for it because they fear the world and want someone who can protect them from it. This allows them both to fulfil their fantasies, one gets to play "super dom" and the other "princess sub" but like all co-dependencies it prevents either from moving to a higher level of being.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 8:03:38 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
LA,

I disagree, I think that "system" you speak of is co-dependent. The dominants create a culture of fear, some fall for it because they fear the world and want someone who can protect them from it. This allows them both to fulfil their fantasies, one gets to play "super dom" and the other "princess sub" but like all co-dependencies it prevents either from moving to a higher level of being.

I agree, it's on both sides. But I only get angry at the subs.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 8:27:36 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

If someone wants to act helpless and that is their kink, no skin off my nose, it doesnt reflect on me. There are going to be dominants that think we are "less" no matter what. Collars of protection or not.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 8:43:22 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
If someone wants to act helpless and that is their kink, no skin off my nose, it doesnt reflect on me. There are going to be dominants that think we are "less" no matter what. Collars of protection or not.

I've said that at least twice in this thread. As long as someone accepts that they will be perceived as weak and unable to act as a responsible adult because they take on "protection" then it works for them.

Problem is, most of them get upset when you try and point that out to them and insist they are NOT a DOORMAT! If you act like you're too weak to stand on your own, if you act like being a responsible adult is just too much work, then don't be surprised when people perceive you as weak and doormat like.

You seemed to be arguing that they won't be perceived that way or that they shouldn't be perceived that way.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 8:52:55 AM

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/21/2006
Status: offline

For christ's sake.

I will tell you a story which is quite personal, but I think I need to share it.

I know a beautiful young man who is one of the sweetest people I've ever met. He works about 200 hours a week -- literally. He's taken a 36 hour shift with three breaks before. He's very gentle and quiet. He's cuddley as hell.

This young man also has a deep inability to say "no." .... Firstly, he can't say no to people he loves... and secondly, as a child, he was abducted and abused by some older "friends" of is who were very sadistic, and anytime he resisted or said no, he had the living carp beaten out of him. ... So, whenever someone tells him to do something, particularly sexual, he locks up, starts trembling and having flashbacks, and will do whatever the person tells him to.

...I consider myself this young man's Protector.... I do not own him, but I do take responsibility for him as if he were my own. I hold his leash, and do not allow any others to grab it -- I carefully explain his situation (without sharing the details) to anyone who approaches him. He has another Dominant, a male, who also serves in this capacity.

I have been teaching this young man how to say no to things he doesn't want for the past year or two. He is getting much better at it, but it still helps him for me to be nearby and for me to hold his hand, or his leash, as he sets his limits and boundaries.

....This is an extreme case, but for god's sake. Some people need a Protector. I never formally established this relationship with him, since I didn't know the term for it until recently.

On another topic -- this young man also protects me quite frequently. He's the only person I feel safe to cry on.... I'll curl up on him and cry, and he usually reacts by holding me and crying too. But for some reason, he manages to care for me as often as I do for him, despite his more gentle nature...

_____________________________

--Miss Alice
http://www.aliceskary.com
http://www.myspace.com/aliceskary

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 8:53:22 AM

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I agree, it's on both sides. But I only get angry at the subs.

I agree too....with both of you. But my anger about it isn't only directed at the subs but also at the Doms. As for it not being skin off of anyone's nose....I disagree. The more often the message gets sent that this type of irresponsibility and unaccountability is ok....then more people will be sucked into thinking that this is standard operating procedure in this lifestyle. I think that the number one most damaging message to send to new subs is that they can turn over their self responsibility to a Dominant and not have to be an adult in their own right....I think that the number one most damaging message to send to new Dominants is that subs are weak, meek, defenseless and incapable creatures who can not make decisions on their own or operate without assistance in the real world and need rescuing and protecting. When this message gets continually passed along to the point that it starts to become what is expected then we ALL are affected by it. Protection collars have one purpose....to absolve one of the responsibility of taking care of themself and giving that responsibility to another. While they may give a sub a sense of security it is a false sense of security and offers no protection in any real sense that the sub could not provide themself with by just owning that responsibility right up front. No thank you are not hard words to say and I would certainly think that any adult who is exploring the possibilities of sexual or BDSM play or the pursuit of an adult relationship should be capable at the very least of being able to utter those words.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 6/20/2006 8:54:01 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 11:02:06 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Erin,

I will keep that in mind when I play this weekend with a collar on my neck and the dom that is escorting me has told me that if someone talks to me and makes me uncomfortable they can be directed to him because he wants to deal with it. He did not say I couldn't talk to anyone I wanted to, but that if I was requested to get someone a drink or something I was to tell them again, take it up with the one that brought me.

Perhaps it is perceived as though I am somehow making a statement all submissives are weak to you, but then again I tend to want to impress someone that is domming me with my hehavior, and not all other submissives that might find my deferential behavior abhorrent for some reason. And if you say "Well that is different because you are being escorted by the dominant you are dating"... Well I see very little difference between this and being escorted by a friend that is looking out for me.

Poke a fork in this thread as far as I am concerned.. I am done with it.. we all have the right to an opinion, and Lord knows mine isnt the only one in the world.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 12:15:01 PM

Posts: 127
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Balti., Maryland, living in Summerville SC
Status: offline

first let me say thanks ... for reading this and hearing all the points ...

i disagree .. the words no .. and even no thank ..said before a dominant figure can often be very hard to ...say to speak ..we/i might think them

but past and life lessons 1-156 have taught me not to ...

so having someone there and able to say no for me .. if i need it .. would help

but then i don't have the nerve to attend one of the meetings ..alone or ..escorted ..so who am i to talk ... i can just see the little bit of

back bone it might give .. someone .. maybe enough to show up and .. be apart of something they wouldn't normally without the security of the collar

ok hushing and going back to my corner ...

< Message edited by gypsyssoul -- 6/20/2006 12:16:46 PM >

_____________________________

~~"I have always sought this other side, but like a flame I dare not touch, For like forbidden fruits of wild .. just one taste would be to much"...
~~ blessed be

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/20/2006 3:16:40 PM

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

Miss Alice,

Thank you for telling that story. I have more than a few Dom/mes who "protect" me because I have a very difficult time saying "no" to a Dom/me. I am learning...slowly...but it's hard for me. Abuse as a child can have that affect on a person. It did on me.

I'm capable of saying no about a lot of things, but seldom about me. The one time I was assaulted by a "dom" on this site it was because I refused to let him prostitute my daughters. Did I say no to him? You betcha!! And I had bruises for weeks because of it. Would I say no to someone simply threatening me? Nope. Even if I didn't want to be caned by an inexperienced person, I would probably submit and let them cane me. Because I'm not protective of myself like I should be. Those boundaries were broken down when I was a child and the break was reinforced by an abusive husband. It's going to take time for me to get them put back up.

One reason why it would be so nice to have a Dom!!

(in reply to missalice)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/23/2006 4:34:34 PM

Posts: 273
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline

When I first came into the scene, I was very lucky. I found some awesome friends that introduced me to friends, who introduced me to friends and so on. Finally I found someone who I found a trust and bond with. He took me under his wing, taught me the ropes (pardon the pun) taught the questions I should ask. He believes in SSC as do I. He is not my Dom, I am not collared and yet we play together and go to parties together. When I first started, I did look to him for guidance because in all honesty I was scared. I am a sub, am by no means timid but I was walking into a world that I knew next to nothing about, just that it fascinated me. He helped me to get through those first couple of parties without feeling overwhelmed. I do know that had I felt threatened he would have reacted. I am lucky in that aspect, but now you have a new sub, unfamiliar with a the nuances, and she becomes overwhelmed, I can understand her reaction. We have all come to where we are through many different avenues, some of us just need more guidance than others. Give her another chance, tell her her mistake and let her learn from it. After all we all were beginners once.

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/23/2006 9:11:07 PM

Posts: 33
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline

agreed about safe words,,,when one gives toal control of ones soul,body & mind your a cherished pet no need for worrying,thus it nullifies the words
just a thought!

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 6/23/2006 9:23:50 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

an entire slough of asswipe

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to wwhitetigress)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 2/25/2017 12:59:09 PM

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline

hello Mistress,

Vanilla, as in living the BDSM life with only those you entrust, while the rest of your world of family and friends may have no idea of your private lifestyle desires.
-bobby

(in reply to Stassy)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 2/25/2017 4:08:23 PM

Posts: 14412
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

So, you hijacked an 11 year old thread to post a personal ad......

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to bobbyhill)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 3/12/2017 9:51:17 AM

AdamSilentMentor

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/11/2017
From: Denmark
Status: offline

It is always best to ask any submissive or slave you approach if he or she is owned. Simple etiquette.

_____________________________

You don't know? I will teach you.
You can't? I will help you.
You won't? I will force you.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

RE: "Protected "submissive - 3/17/2017 2:13:29 PM

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/13/2017
Status: offline

Never met a 'protected sub' that dixd't have some fat Gandalf filling her head with all other D types are bad but me. We bored of clubs easilly but went back after 50 shades came out.

1 night of real play and open convos fucked their pervy old plans for years.

(in reply to AdamSilentMentor)

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: "Protected "submissive

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.148