quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Realone. You are an ignorant shit at times. There may be an argument about the actual figures, are they closer to five million or six million. Either way, it doesnt matter, there is no doubt there was a holocaust, not just of Jews but other nationalities and disparate groups.

For you to suggest otherwise may well be okay under freedom of speech, but it is vile ignorant bollocks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Real, So now you are suggesting you have no clue of actual figures, but just know they all went swimming ?

Fucking laughable. Here is one of your posts on the subject.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3013155/mpage_18/key_holocaust%252Cdidnt%252Chappen/tm.htm#

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
All the records kept by the Nazi's accounting for all the Jews and others killed in the camps are faked by Jews and the US military?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
I would like you to explain which six million we are talking about?

The six million people slaughtered in world war one or the six million people slaughtered in world war 2?

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/holycausts/crucify3copy.jpg[/image]

that and why does world war 2 get all the attention and not world war 1?

I am sure there has to be a good sound reasonable explanation for that because it adds up to 12, well between 11 to 12 million then right?

So its not a question of "was there a holocaust" its a question of which Holocaust" are you talking about?

So clear that up for us please?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Good grief man - stay on topic! Obviously, if we are talking about the holocaust, we are talking about WW11 - or is this some sort of diversion?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I must be the odd man out. I have friends that are Israeli and friends that are Palestinians. Now I am not going to say what each side is doing is the right thing to do, but I can see where each side has their justification for the actions their peoples have taken over the years.

Here is the problem.

I have come across people who are so blindly against Israel that they wont even look at sources that prove there are two sides to the problem.

IN 1948, the UN established TWO homelands in Palestine.

[image]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/11/28/learning/Nov29LN/Nov29LN-articleInline.jpg[/image]

Now the problem is that only one side accepted this and that was Israel. Immediately after the formation of the Nation of Israel, it was attacked by its Arab neighbors.

In fact Israel was attacked by several countries each time in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1974 and the goal of those attacks was to erase Israel from the map.

Now there is hypocrisy involved in these attacks on Israel for its recent activities.

In the case of each person that have made anti Israel or anti Semitic arguments, their own country has a history of ethnic oppression of indigenous people, which in many ways is still going on. They seem to rejoice in the deaths of Israeli civilians and mourn the deaths of Palestinians who die in the reprisal attacks.

I wish to point out a given historic, albeit borderline on myth, reason that the favoring of one over the other is not only stupid, but makes no sense.

The Jews, Palestinians and Arabs claim one patriarch as the father of their races, that patriarch being Abraham.

The good news is that the genetics of Arabs and Jews have been pretty extensively researched. The classic study dates to 2000, from a team lead by Michael Hammer of University of Arizona. They looked at Y-chromosome haplotypes - this is the genetic material passed from father to son down the generations.

What they revealed was that Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations (as shown in this figure).

[image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8sY9bx8acNM/SXY1_svkjeI/AAAAAAAAARc/c9zVKvXIY8c/s320/Hammer_2000_Jew_Arab_Ychromosome.png[/image] so there is some scientific proof to the common patriarch belief.

But what I cant wrap my head around is how people can condemn the Israelis for doing things that are in their own national history.

People on both sides are dieing, and that is a tragedy.

What is worse is that genetically, they are all related to each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

I think my partner, who's grandmother and great aunt were sent out of Germany in the late 30s and who lost a significant number of family members to the Nazis, might have something to say about supposed "fake" pictures and statements that "it didn't happen". I know quite a few people who lost family to the Holocaust. I've spoken to people who were sent away, or who were already living in the US but had family still in Germany, who remember family just vanishing never to be seen again. So just curious, where exactly did these people go if the Holocaust was all faked?

Granted, earlier pogroms happened, but they killed hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands, not millions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanneeve

RealOne,

In 1919 there was no holocaust being done, there was however a large number of pogroms going on in the future soviet region...It was being done by many parties.

Pogroms were unleashed throughout the Russian Civil War, perpetrated by virtually every competing faction, from Polish and Ukrainian nationalists to the Red and White Armies.[28] 31,071 civilian Jews were killed during documented pogroms throughout the former Russian Empire; the number of Jewish orphans exceeded 300,000. Majority of pogroms in Ukraine during 1918–1920 were perpetrated by the Ukrainian nationalists, miscellaneous bands and anti-Communist forces.[29]
Perpetrator Number of pogroms or excesses Number murdered Murder in each pogrom[29]
Hryhoriiv's bands 52 3,471 67
Directory 493 16,706 34
White army 213 5,235 25
Miscellaneous bands 307 4,615 15
Red Army 106 725 7
Others 33 185 6
Polish army 32 134 4
Total 1,236 31,071 25

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

I think my partner, who's grandmother and great aunt were sent out of Germany in the late 30s and who lost a significant number of family members to the Nazis, might have something to say about supposed "fake" pictures and statements that "it didn't happen". I know quite a few people who lost family to the Holocaust. I've spoken to people who were sent away, or who were already living in the US but had family still in Germany, who remember family just vanishing never to be seen again. So just curious, where exactly did these people go if the Holocaust was all faked?

Granted, earlier pogroms happened, but they killed hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands, not millions.

even if a million people simply vanished you cannot rationally conclude it was a holocaust.

Soap made from the fat of Jews? Rugs from their hair? Lampshades from their skin? Come on! The nazis? Really?

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/holycausts/BuchenwaldLampshade.jpg[/image]

Now russians that may be another story.

-

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Just0Plain0Mike

I think my partner, who's grandmother and great aunt were sent out of Germany in the late 30s and who lost a significant number of family members to the Nazis, might have something to say about supposed "fake" pictures and statements that "it didn't happen". I know quite a few people who lost family to the Holocaust. I've spoken to people who were sent away, or who were already living in the US but had family still in Germany, who remember family just vanishing never to be seen again. So just curious, where exactly did these people go if the Holocaust was all faked?

Granted, earlier pogroms happened, but they killed hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands, not millions.

even if a million people simply vanished you cannot rationally conclude it was a holocaust.

Soap made from the fat of Jews? Rugs from their hair? Lampshades from their skin? Come on! The nazis? Really?

[image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/holycausts/BuchenwaldLampshade.jpg[/image]

Now russians that may be another story.

-

sure you can rationally conclude it was a holocaust. It certainly wasn't the flu!

as for the next line - i think you are getting a bit carried away with yourself - and as i understand it, the hair was for mattresses, not rugs. Get your story straight.