quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

Knowledge is not evil, does not “become” evil and too much knowledge is not evil. What you choose to do with knowledge is what is or is not evil.

Let's say that I (as God) tell you that you as an individual with freewill you can choose as you will. Then I lock you in a castle and remove anything that I disagree with. You are no longer free to choose. You are not CHOOSING to do good. You are forced to only do what I want. In order for man to "choose" good, there had to at least be an alternative option. Otherwise all God created was a couple of slaves.

quote:

And lets not forget that in this same story there was another tree in the garden called “The Tree of Life.” According to the Bible had they eaten off of that tree they would have lived forever. So along with the tree that God essentially called “death” he also gave them a tree that he called “life.” The choice was up to them which fruit to eat. (Again God giving man freewill.)

quote:

God is not evil. God is a creator. What people do with His creations is what defines good and evil in us. God never called the tree evil. Eating from the tree was not the sin. It only opened the door to the knowledge of sin to man. From that time on their innocence was lost and from then on they had to choose between good and evil.

quote:

God did not create religion. Religion is entirely a man made concept. In that sense, yes it is an attempt to control people and knowledge

quote:

so didn't god also instruct them not to eat from the tree of life also, because eternal life would make them godly and he would not create some thing that was his equal it's not possible to "create an equal". because a you create it you are better than it you made it right.

quote:

so if they did eat from the tree of life they would of been banished from the garden also, so god actually did not give them a choice. did he create slaves, and because religion was created to control man, he is the master and man is his slave. the free will is not a concept god would of given to something he created. it was imposed by the people who created religion to make the people think they had a choice. when actually no matter which choice they made it had the same results. its like a parallel universe there was decision made but it had only one result, that was , the next thing he had planned. and there would be no way of knowing, "what if", because there is no way to go back. if you could go back and change the decision you made then that means you would have gained knowledge of the situation and could change your decision so that would make that level of knowledge a sin because it would make you more godly. if you could change his plan. so free will is out the window now. and i'm back to saying we are slaves to god and not servants right.

quote:

so knowledge is a sin correct

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

so was religion created to control knowledge? if so then that means if you are not religious then you shall continue to gain knowledge, and there is only so much to be gained that means that there is an end, an answer to what you seek, the correct answer to everything, to every possible question and if you had the answer to every possible question then that would mean you know the answer to the ultimate question. then you still have something to strive for in your journey of life, the pursuit of knowledge. once again you are making the same choice you would have made if you were religious. both have the same answer. the answer to the ultimate question. and of the answer to the ultimate question which is the reason that religion was created to control the masses and bring order to the the people, the only thing that separates us from any of his creations is our ability to think we are questioning things right but no matter what every thing comes out the same we real have no choice so god did create slaves. i think i explained that correctly what do you think? can you help me clarify my thoughts. one moment while i put them together. your opinions are welcome maybe they are some thing i'm missing in all this

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

In other words, you failed to provide any such direct quote, you failed to grasp, much less answer the rational questions that other people are asking you, and are running on pure projection and impotent trolling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

There is no argument, and you can't provide a single direct quote where I've written any such thing. But then again, you aren't here for honest discourse, are you?

As far as your naturam transcendentem, quae manetgames, that dishonest ruse is even older than Aramaic.

You've got nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: EdBowie

Awww... how cute, a strawman logical fallacy. The threat was that they would die on the day they disobeyed.
And don't waste time playing games with the definition of 'day'.

Then why are you trying to play games. You are the one with the strawman, trying to change the argument to suit you instead of dealing with it as is. If you have done your homework, you should know that the original languages of the Bible did not include English. So the word used meant time period and could mean 24hrs or thousands of years. In fact at one place in the Bible it says that a thousand years is but a "day" in God's eye and interestingly Adam and Eve lived less than a thousand years.

quote:

So much for that whole 'Shall not bear false witness' thing, hmmm?

Yeah how about that.

Really then why didn't address what I said instead this piece of drivel.

The actual truth is that they died the same "day" but you endeavored to make it a "straw man" by implying that that "day" had to be shorter than their lives.
Quite honestly you seem to be the one that isn't "here for honest discourse" and it seems that except for anger it is you that has nothing to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

What in the world are you babbling about?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

so was religion created to control knowledge?

quote:

if so then that means if you are not religious then you shall continue to gain knowledge, and there is only so much to be gained that means that there is an end, an answer to what you seek, the correct answer to everything, to every possible question and if you had the answer to every possible question then that would mean you know the answer to the ultimate question.

quote:

then you still have something to strive for in your journey of life, the pursuit of knowledge.

quote:

once again you are making the same choice you would have made if you were religious.

quote:

both have the same answer. the answer to the ultimate question. and of the answer to the ultimate question which is the reason that religion was created to control the masses and bring order to the the people, the only thing that separates us from any of his creations is our ability to think we are questioning things right but no matter what every thing comes out the same we real have no choice so god did create slaves.

quote:

i think i explained that correctly what do you think? can you help me clarify my thoughts. one moment while i put them together. your opinions are welcome maybe they are some thing i'm missing in all this

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

so didn't god also instruct them not to eat from the tree of life also, because eternal life would make them godly and he would not create some thing that was his equal it's not possible to "create an equal". because a you create it you are better than it you made it right.


so if they did eat from the tree of life they would of been banished from the garden also, so god actually did not give them a choice. did he create slaves, and because religion was created to control man, he is the master and man is his slave. the free will is not a concept god would of given to something he created. it was imposed by the people who created religion to make the people think they had a choice. when actually no matter which choice they made it had the same results. its like a parallel universe there was decision made but it had only one result, that was , the next thing he had planned. and there would be no way of knowing, "what if", because there is no way to go back. if you could go back and change the decision you made then that means you would have gained knowledge of the situation and could change your decision so that would make that level of knowledge a sin because it would make you more godly. if you could change his plan. so free will is out the window now. and i'm back to saying we are slaves to god and not servants right.
so knowledge is a sin correct

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

yes maybe a little sleep deprived, but non the less, i did forget to define the ultimate question the one that created the spark that became the fire of religion.the question being what happens after you die?. if you can answer that you have found the answer to everything. it is the end and the only way to answer that is to die. so no one god created can truthfully answer the question. right so either side of the argument has the same answer "unknown" correct

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

the question being what happens after you die?. if you can answer that you have found the answer to everything.

I suspect not everything.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

2 Chronicles 1:11
God said to Solomon, “Since this is your heart’s desire and you have not asked for wealth, possessions or honor, nor for the death of your enemies, and since you have not asked for a long life but for wisdom and knowledge to govern my people over whom I have made you king,
2 Chronicles 1:10-12 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2 Chronicles 1:12
therefore wisdom and knowledge will be given you. And I will also give you wealth, possessions and honor, such as no king who was before you ever had and none after you will have.”


so here its saying that god gave knowledge to rule the people. So if you rule the people you are god like right and that's not right because he created everyone, and everyone is equal in his eyes.
maybe my confusion is steaming from the bible itself i cant fathom how so many people fallow a book that was written hundreds of years after the stories took place which took place over hundreds of years as a basis of fact to live their life by. that is the problem i keep running into. any opinion on why this causes problems i cant find a resource to cross reference the actual facts embedded with in the bible. maybe that would be the pursuit of knowledge that would be a sin not using it for evil but for knowledge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

point taken, but did they have documented written history during that time , honest question. if so who controlled the documents and translated them through out the years of power struggles and wars of tribes and did they translate correctly or did they minipulate the words to help control the people by making them fear hell. did they do any thing to govern what was kept as record. that makes me think deeper into what i really believe and i'm tring to straghten that out any suggestions on literature to help me cross referance the stories or whats being said in the confusing tounge of the day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY
...
Knowledge cannot make you more godly no matter how much of it you obtain.
...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And as to your other dare, fine lets test your sinful knowledge.

Why did Jesus kill the fig tree?

There were no fig on it and so Jesus killed it so he could teach his disciple a lesson. why do you ask?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubbabarrett31

yes maybe a little sleep deprived, but non the less, i did forget to define the ultimate question the one that created the spark that became the fire of religion.the question being what happens after you die?. if you can answer that you have found the answer to everything. it is the end and the only way to answer that is to die. so no one god created can truthfully answer the question. right so either side of the argument has the same answer "unknown" correct