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12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 1:30:40 PM

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Want the opinions of you all please. Was speaking to another Dom and he state that portions of the movie "12 years a slave" was like watching porn to him. So, to keep out of jail, I walked away from him vice smash his face in. Am I alone in thinking that the two are completely different?

RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 2:30:59 PM

pg4g

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People are attracted to certain things in movies. Doesn't mean that he is insane, a psychopath or a nutter.

When I was 8 I was heavily attracted to a movie with a teenager tied up and tortured. In fact, it was my first ever feeling of attraction. Doesn't mean I was planning in ever doing that. But the idea of tying someone up, hurting them, and being tied up against my will and hurt resonated deeply with me.

Admittedly for me that was way too young. After that and one other movie, I convinced myself that being attracted to such things in movies was disgusting and psychotic and hated it about myself. I started to feel extremely sick any time I see bondage or pain in a movie. In fact, often times I've had to walk out of movies due to the pain. I still do. Recently there was a scene in a tv show that caused me to go upstairs as I could sense what was about to happen in the scene. My partner is acutely aware of my discomfort and often uses that to educate himself of what I'm attracted to, even if I can't admit it to him or myself (my hate/love relationship with bottoming I means I'll never ask for what turns me on and I'll always fight it).

Don't feel bad. He's not necessarily evil. Something just resonated with him in fantasy land. You can cause some pretty fucked up complexes like mine when they internalize that self-hatred.

(in reply to Nukldo)

RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 3:11:46 PM

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I would not consider a single thing in 12 Years a Slave to be hot (except for Michael Fassbender, and I even found him disgusting in that movie), so I certainly could never imagine someone being turned on by the historical reality of non consensual torture, murder and slavery.

To each his own.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 3:15:46 PM

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Portions of the original "I Spit on Your Grave" are like porn to me. Doesn't mean I want any of that done to me, or any other woman, in real life. My favorite porn is non-consensual. It's not real.

(in reply to Nukldo)

RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 3:31:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nukldo

Want the opinions of you all please. Was speaking to another Dom and he state that portions of the movie "12 years a slave" was like watching porn to him. So, to keep out of jail, I walked away from him vice smash his face in. Am I alone in thinking that the two are completely different?

Ohhhhh, this "other Dom", huh? Well dude, I feel for you, you probably feel like a complete social misfit and miscreant that such things are hot to you, but it may just be you depriving yourself of a way to channel your lustful desires in a healthy way. I'll be honest, "I spit on your grave" was a must watch because I saw 5 seconds of a tawdry sex scene and simply had to watch the movie.
Does it make me a bad person? (Wait, don't answer that!) But yea, I found some of the forced this or that scenes rather hot and original (And well the female protagonist had a hot bod). It seemed like some kind of bizarre fantasy, down to the "small town bumpkins" coming to fruition.
I had a country club wife as a sub once and in her case, the naughtier the play, the better. It was especially hot to me.
Anyway, I shouldn't be encouraging this poor fellow but reassuring him, that with the right balance in his life he won't have to feel like anomaly. FIND AN OUTLET ASAP. My best advice. Hopefully not some poor unsuspecting sub either, something safe and sane within the confines of "vanilla normalcy". Part of the discipline of being a Dom, especially a sexually aggressive one is putting limits on YOURSELF to know what is and is not OK. :)

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 6:01:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Portions of the original "I Spit on Your Grave" are like porn to me. Doesn't mean I want any of that done to me, or any other woman, in real life. My favorite porn is non-consensual. It's not real.

I've actually seen that movie.

Very rapey.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 8:56:00 PM

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If you want to smash the face in of a person who has done no wrong in the world except get a boner, than that's just flat out nuts.

If you feel -as a newbie- that people engaging in BDSM should hold themselves to reasonable standards of social decorum……well, that's sort of flat out nuts too.

BDSM is rife with all kinds of so-called bad taste. If a women wanted to call me Daddy while I was spanking her, that would sort of make me go limp -but who am I to rain on anyone's parade?

And lets face it, if I were into her, I'd probably get into that Daddy thing a bit too.If you had a chance to do some plantation role play right now, would you turn it down?

(in reply to ARIES83)

RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 8:59:19 PM

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Note to self: Be very careful of whom you go to the movies with.

Just sayin'

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/14/2014 10:07:39 PM

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At the risk of getting my face smashed I have a confession to make. That scene in Django where they tied up Kerry Washington and whipped her? - fucking hot! I mean that woman + that body + that scene = fucking hot.

Yes, it is completely different from porn. That is probably why I found it so fucking hot!

Did I mention hot? I am certain that if I found it hot, there are other sadists in the world who feel the same. It is theater. It should challenge your beliefs. It should make you feel things you normally would not. It does not mean that anyone takes the historical issues lightly or that anyone would want to see people treated that way in real life (nonconsensual). All it really means is - good theater.

In case I forgot to mention it- fucking hot!

ETA- I have not seen "12 Years a Slave" yet; but if anything in it is remotely similar to what goes on in modern BDSM, I understand how some people might find it hot.

< Message edited by MsMJAY -- 2/14/2014 10:15:18 PM >

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 3:43:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nukldo

Want the opinions of you all please. Was speaking to another Dom and he state that portions of the movie "12 years a slave" was like watching porn to him. So, to keep out of jail, I walked away from him vice smash his face in. Am I alone in thinking that the two are completely different?

I was hoping to catch "The Wolf of Wall Street," but it was no longer featured. This movie was based on a true story that one man endured. How anyone could liken the atrocities depicted with pornography is beyond the scope of my understanding. Knowing this had to do with actual slavery and seeing how human beings were brutalized, how someone could turn off the "compassion" switch within himself/herself and see this in an erotic vein turns my stomach.

There, I've said my piece.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
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(in reply to Nukldo)

RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 5:15:27 AM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
I was hoping to catch "The Wolf of Wall Street," but it was no longer featured. This movie was based on a true story that one man endured. How anyone could liken the atrocities depicted with pornography is beyond the scope of my understanding. Knowing this had to do with actual slavery and seeing how human beings were brutalized, how someone could turn off the "compassion" switch within himself/herself and see this in an erotic vein turns my stomach.

There, I've said my piece.

Hey, I agree if he's relishing in this film's... er... darker themes, without consideration for the actual meaning and context, then that turns my stomach too.

But can you really blame someone for a twinge of attraction to underlying themes, or a scenario? Hey, then I'm guilty as sin! I see men tied up and being used as literal human punching bags, or tortured horribly with electricity, or a man being lashed viciously, all within films & tv, and I feel major twinges of attraction to the man enduring it, the scenario of domination and pain, and the concept of enduring it myself. Every. Single. Time. I feel awful because, hey, the context is these terrible things done to people who didn't deserve it (even in fiction) and I am a strong fighter for freedom, human rights, compassion, and loving and caring for every single person on this planet.

Can you really blame people for feeling something though?

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/15/2014 5:16:54 AM >

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 5:33:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

Can you really blame people for feeling something though?

Yes and no, although blame might not be the right word. When I watch certain things, I can detach myself from what's going on by maintaining an objective outlook. Yes, there are plenty of times when I get engrossed in a film (most of the time, in fact), identify with one of the characters, and allow myself to experience it subjectively. But that's just how I am.

For example, there are two films I saw recently on Netflix. One Australian (coincidence!) one was particularly disturbing, so much so that I won't even divulge the title. I had to purge my brain afterwards. The other was a historical epic where I developed sympathetic feelings toward the lead protagonist for the injustices she was served, despite knowing how tragically it would end.

Honestly, I felt compelled to give my unvarnished personal truth. Others have their own. I wouldn't feel guilty about your own personal truths because they are your own and should be validated, not repressed, as long as you can channel these desires appropriately. Some others I don't trust to know how to handle them, but at the end of the day, nobody has the right to superimpose her/his morality upon another for thoughts in the absence of deeds.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 5:38:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
I was hoping to catch "The Wolf of Wall Street," but it was no longer featured. This movie was based on a true story that one man endured. How anyone could liken the atrocities depicted with pornography is beyond the scope of my understanding. Knowing this had to do with actual slavery and seeing how human beings were brutalized, how someone could turn off the "compassion" switch within himself/herself and see this in an erotic vein turns my stomach.

There, I've said my piece.

Want to hear something weird? I kind of agree with you. It is twisted. However, is it really seeing it in an erotic way or is it merely a biological response? I recall reading an article that said that 4% of rape victims get aroused during their rape and some of them even orgasm. The statistic was from a peer reviewed paper. (I will try to look it up.) Does the arousal response mean that the victim lacked compassion for themselves or that it wasn't really rape? Or was it merely a biological response that their bodies had been conditioned to elicit under certain stimuli?

I never lose sight of the fact that being sadist I get off on inflicting pain. We can make it consensual, give it rules and name it adult "play" all we like. It is still the very much one human being getting off on the physical and mental suffering of another human being. Do we lack compassion? Perhaps. Have we conditioned ourselves to give an arousal response under certain stimuli? Perhaps.

I know that I cannot overthink the weird complexities of my psyche. It would drive me crazy. I gave a harsh beating a partner last night and as he moaned and screamed from the pain I felt nothing but immense joy. I accept that about myself. I watched a fictional depiction of beautiful black woman tied spread armed to a tree, stripped naked and whipped by two slave owners and found it to be incredibly hot. I accept that about myself.

ETA link to article: arousal during rape.

< Message edited by MsMJAY -- 2/15/2014 5:40:05 AM >

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 6:01:08 AM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

For example, there are two films I saw recently on Netflix. One Australian (coincidence!) one was particularly disturbing, so much so that I won't even divulge the title. I had to purge my brain afterwards. The other was a historical epic where I developed sympathetic feelings toward the lead protagonist for the injustices she was served, despite knowing how tragically it would end.

Honestly, I felt compelled to give my unvarnished personal truth. Others have their own. I wouldn't feel guilty about your own personal truths because they are your own and should be validated, not repressed, as long as you can channel these desires appropriately. Some others I don't trust to know how to handle them, but at the end of the day, nobody has the right to superimpose her/his morality upon another for thoughts in the absence of deeds.

I do believe I know the Australian movie you're talking about. I haven't and won't watch it. I'm not interested in watching movies like that. The scenes I refer to are in TV shows where there are action heroes in dire straights, not just horrible torture. People you are invested in and care about as characters. The torture is just there to show them as strong, enduring individuals - character development.

I tend to believe that this person stating it was like porn was more referring to the feelings of attraction to a certain element, not to true torture and destruction of a human being, and I also assume that they have the decency to know how to handle those feelings in an appropriate way. I guess I'm being a glass-half-full type of guy.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 6:03:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

Want to hear something weird? I kind of agree with you. It is twisted. However, is it really seeing it in an erotic way or is it merely a biological response? I recall reading an article that said that 4% of rape victims get aroused during their rape and some of them even orgasm. The statistic was from a peer reviewed paper. (I will try to look it up.) Does the arousal response mean that the victim lacked compassion for themselves or that it wasn't really rape? Or was it merely a biological response that their bodies had been conditioned to elicit under certain stimuli?

I never lose sight of the fact that being sadist I get off on inflicting pain. We can make it consensual, give it rules and name it adult "play" all we like. It is still the very much one human being getting off on the physical and mental suffering of another human being. Do we lack compassion? Perhaps. Have we conditioned ourselves to give an arousal response under certain stimuli? Perhaps.

I know that I cannot overthink the weird complexities of my psyche. It would drive me crazy. I gave a harsh beating a partner last night and as he moaned and screamed from the pain I felt nothing but immense joy. I accept that about myself. I watched a fictional depiction of beautiful black woman tied spread armed to a tree, stripped naked and whipped by two slave owners and found it to be incredibly hot. I accept that about myself.

ETA link to article: arousal during rape.

I'm glad you brought this up because it wasn't very long ago I read a post (can't remember whose it was) pointing out that a woman's body will start lubricating in order to protect her sexual organs from the damage of physical trauma. The orgasm part, I'm unsure about. What I object to is the idea that certain foolish men will get that rape isn't such a big deal because ostensibly a tiny fraction of rape victims/survivors may have enjoyed any part of the attack. It isn't only men of low intellect either, fecktards come in all shapes and forms.

Btw, I'm not sadistic so the arousal factor doesn't apply here. I have no inner conflict or torn ambivalent feelings insofar as that's concerned.

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 6:17:32 AM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I never lose sight of the fact that being sadist I get off on inflicting pain. We can make it consensual, give it rules and name it adult "play" all we like. It is still the very much one human being getting off on the physical and mental suffering of another human being. Do we lack compassion? Perhaps. Have we conditioned ourselves to give an arousal response under certain stimuli? Perhaps.

Not all sadists get off to the actual pain but the other elements of the adventure.

For me, I don't get off to the infliction of pain but on the attraction to someone who can bear through that pain, and I'd work with them to guide them to a new understanding of their own endurance. I often hear people talk about how they like seeing their subs with welts etc. I love the look of a great cut on a back from torture. It attracts me to know this person is capable of enduring that and pushing through. Each bite of pain they endure I see more of that endurance and I shudder in amazement, and makes me feel utter joy in their presence.

I actually think myself as a sadist I'm extremely compassionate. I care deeply about the torture endured by the person. Heck, I admire the heck out of the bottom who can do that, and feel for them, and aftercare isn't a thing I do just to say "don't fall apart on me, I care about you" - for me its... "wow holy crap you are so amazing, i can't believe you can handle that.". BTW I always think we underestimate who is truly the stronger one in the top-bottom of a scene.

Have we been conditioned to give an aroused response? Perhaps I have by TV where strong characters are often tested by adversity like torture to show their vulnerability and endurance.

Sorry, I just had to address that because you seemed to generalise your feelings for every sadist.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 6:37:27 AM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

I'm glad you brought this up because it wasn't very long ago I read a post (can't remember whose it was) pointing out that a woman's body will start lubricating in order to protect her sexual organs from the damage of physical trauma. The orgasm part, I'm unsure about. What I object to is the idea that certain foolish men will get that rape isn't such a big deal because ostensibly a tiny fraction of rape victims/survivors may have enjoyed any part of the attack. It isn't only men of low intellect either, fecktards come in all shapes and forms.

Yeah, that's a scary thought. It doesn't matter if you made her dreams of ecstasy - the trauma from having that done against you will is so much worse.

Seriously, anyone who thinks that? Whoa... scary thought.

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 6:46:37 AM

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~FR~

Last night I watched a TV programme where a young woman was having an unwanted tattoo lasered in a clinic. She was gasping and moaning and crying...and I found myself wishing it was me instead of her in the clinic

So yeah, people have odd fantasies and find some weird shit as hot as hell. It's all part and parcel of humanity...thank goodness!

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 6:53:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g
Not all sadists get off to the actual pain but the other elements of the adventure.

For me, I don't get off to the infliction of pain but on the attraction to someone who can bear through that pain, and I'd work with them to guide them to a new understanding of their own endurance. I often hear people talk about how they like seeing their subs with welts etc. I love the look of a great cut on a back from torture. It attracts me to know this person is capable of enduring that and pushing through. Each bite of pain they endure I see more of that endurance and I shudder in amazement, and makes me feel utter joy in their presence.

I actually think myself as a sadist I'm extremely compassionate. I care deeply about the torture endured by the person. Heck, I admire the heck out of the bottom who can do that, and feel for them, and aftercare isn't a thing I do just to say "don't fall apart on me, I care about you" - for me its... "wow holy crap you are so amazing, i can't believe you can handle that.". BTW I always think we underestimate who is truly the stronger one in the top-bottom of a scene.

Have we been conditioned to give an aroused response? Perhaps I have by TV where strong characters are often tested by adversity like torture to show their vulnerability and endurance.

Sorry, I just had to address that because you seemed to generalise your feelings for every sadist.

I didn't generalize the feelings of every sadist. I only stated that I get off on inflicting pain. (which is actually the textbook definition of what a sadist is; though I agree that others may relate to it differently on a personal level.)
sa·dism noun \ˈsā-ˌdi-zəm, ˈsa-\ : enjoyment that someone gets from being violent or cruel or from causing pain; especially : sexual enjoyment from hurting or punishing someone Merriam Webster

I too am a very compassionate person. To an extent, inflicting pain on others can be viewed as an act of compassion in and of itself. There are many who (for whatever reason) have a strong desire to be on the receiving end of that pain. I am fulfilling a need/desire. I am providing something that most masochists would not be able to easily find anywhere else. (at least not the male ones). And for most of them, my enjoyment of it makes the experience even more enjoyable for them. Sadism as an act of compassion? I'm on board.

_____________________________

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RE: 12 years a slave - 2/15/2014 7:05:51 AM

pg4g

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMJAY

I didn't generalize the feelings of every sadist. I only stated that I get off on inflicting pain. (which is actually the textbook definition of what a sadist is; though I agree that others may relate to it differently on a personal level.)
sa·dism noun \ˈsā-ˌdi-zəm, ˈsa-\ : enjoyment that someone gets from being violent or cruel or from causing pain; especially : sexual enjoyment from hurting or punishing someone Merriam Webster

Your questions and answers switched between I and we:

quote:

I never lose sight of the fact that being sadist I get off on inflicting pain. We can make it consensual, give it rules and name it adult "play" all we like. It is still the very much one human being getting off on the physical and mental suffering of another human being. Do we lack compassion? Perhaps. Have we conditioned ourselves to give an arousal response under certain stimuli? Perhaps.

I don't mean to be a smartass, but that's why I thought you seemed to move from you to all of us.

And your definition on what people are getting off on is rather specific: the infliction of the pain itself. The dictionary terminology left quite a bit of room for what element of the causing pain or hurting the other that was actually enjoyed by the sadist.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 2/15/2014 7:07:46 AM >

(in reply to MsMJAY)

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