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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 6:17:15 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Humans are funny creatures.

Yep. Can't argue that.
But some are just stupid beyond belief.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Some have total faith in something greater,

Really??
What is greater than man's achievements?
Not all good I grant you; but on the whole, better than the dark ages and beyond.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
they just have the ability to know.

Know what??
That they are weak and need an ethereal being as a crutch to survive daily life??

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Then you have some that are total absent of it.

And I would say they are often the better person for that absence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Each think the other is limited and living in a bubble.

I agree with that.
But it takes all sorts to make a world.
If you wanna live in a bubble, that's your choice.
But don't try to assert your bubble onto other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
The God view is open beyond the stars, multiuniverse actually

Proof? Citation?
It is only your perception of such.
I have not seen any proof of either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
and we are accused of ignorant and uneducated.

Not so much ignorant.... just blinkered and unforgiving in your own personal beliefs.
What's worse is that you slander everyone else with acidic comments who believe something different.
How intolerant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
The most hysterical thing of all is while we are gifted with the beauty of faith and blind wisdom,

You call that a gift??
I'd call it a blind millstone of not having free thought of your own.
You have to rely on something else to provide your guidance.
Sheeple mentality at its best.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
you all are in white coats making bobbly gook trying to actually prove what we already have a knowing for.

You don't know for certain as you have no proof yourself.
Your 'knowledge' is just blind guesswork at best and nothing whatsoever to back it up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
If you think about it dim wit you are actually trying to reach God.

Not in a zillion years.
What an obtuse PoV!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Ye of little faith.

I have my own faith and it doesn't revolve around an ethereal being in the sky.
Casting aspersions on those that don't follow your particular path is a personal attack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Let's do everything possible with our box brains even make weird stuff and blow us out of the water to show how smart we really are!!!!


Believing in a non-existent being isn't a smart thing.
The dark ages of blind faith are long gone with the inquisition of yesteryear.
Some of us have seen the light - the real light where blind faith is deemed ridiculous and inadequate.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 6:19:37 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		What do you think the US would do to civilians operating terrorism knowingly by flying planes into foreign buildings with no active war going on? Think we would support those doers, hide them, support them?

As a matter of fact we do. Did you ever hear of the "bay of pigs". Educate yourself as to the clandestine operation of the u.s. around the world.

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 6:31:29 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry, CB. For me, the story gave me the biggest hand-to-face moment of this thread so far. It's concocted specifically to make right wing American Christians chortle - but, exactly because it's designed that way, it's only going to reinforce the dislike of right wing American bible-thumpers amongst those who are against them.

_____________________________

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(in reply to chatterbox24)
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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 6:38:58 AM   
GotSteel


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Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Christians are not taught to devalue life and attack physically unless provoked to no choice.


Isn't that precisely the point of the story? Think if the situation was reversed. Would you think that the atheist was "provoked to no choice"? Would you think that the christian had it coming?

(in reply to chatterbox24)
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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 6:57:25 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Notice how you targeted the violence of the story and not what lead to the reaction.

And Ty ken your link actually was an excellent reinforcer, although I highly doubt that was your intent. Lol.

Humans are funny creatures. Some have total faith in something greater, they just have the ability to know. Then you have some that are total absent of it. Each think the other is limited and living in a bubble.
The God view is open beyond the stars, multiuniverse actually and we are accused of ignorant and uneducated.

The most hysterical thing of all is while we are gifted with the beauty of faith and blind wisdom, you all are in white coats making bobbly gook trying to actually prove what we already have a knowing for. If you think about it dim wit you are actually trying to reach God.

Ye of little faith. Let's do everything possible with our box brains even make weird stuff and blow us out of the water to show how smart we really are!!!!



Normally, I am sympathetic to arguments of faith (and to arguments from science), not automatically opposing them.

But crap like this makes it entirely clear to me why so many people reject arguments of faith out of hand.

Small minds are not limited to faith-based arguments. But when they get going, they can sure be ridiculous, self-righteous, self-serving, and arrogant in the most unattractive ways.

In short -- you aren't helping your cause. You post(s) here display the ugly, ignorant side.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 405
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 7:31:40 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		The purpose of the story was to create a reaction and that it did!
A domino.
How worked up everyone gets it's only a story. Lol. A hypothetical example.
What you have no tolerance to my opinion, tiny bubbles? Ah haha.

Oh come on now, should we practice tolerance to stupidity?

Pigs are the past. Always living in the past aren't we? Think ahead dim, zombies could be brought back to life! Yay ra!

Signed by a huge bubble encompassing tiny bubble clusters. Oh this is soooo much fun thanks for allowing me to play.
huh chew- and gesendheit and God bless you.

Systems down.....


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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 7:52:52 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The purpose of the story is to postulate a ridiculous scenario.

And now the childish taunts. That becomes the face of faith for many who see it. Proud of yourself? You seem to be.

What the others are telling you is exactly "come on now, should we practice tolerance to stupidity?"

Any two year old can provoke a reaction. It's why they're called "the terrible twos."

And the reaction seems to be . . . a blanket rejection of you, your argument, and unfortunately, better arguments from religion swept up in the "reaction" you provoke.

It's trolling, pure and simple.

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Profile   Post #: 407
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 12:42:20 PM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		How marvelous! You mean I am getting younger not older, time in reverse mad scientist, mystery meat, looney tunes, I mean music mystery...I have the hardest time with names oh my.
yes I was fishing and you were caught hook, line and sinker. Take the bait . Trolling is a form of fishing but I was casting a net sweetness. Dont go swimming with the feeshes, I meam fish, yes yes thats what I mean.
I am in the shark tank land of opposition am I not? I am not popular? I am totally crushed I thought I was in a popularity contest.
I was expecting a standing ovation.
I will still stick with God I do hope you arent toooooo offended by that, it could really hurt your feelings, I mean my feelings. You wouldnt want that would you?

xoxoxo much love to you


If you excuse me I will resume my tantrum of kicking and screaming, it makes me feel young, strong powerful and religious.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 12:49:42 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
Consider that fanaticism stifles science; not a particular religion.


People have been translating Tyson's position to mean fundamentalist, literalist, extremest and now fanatic but I don't think that's Tyson's position. For instance Tyson makes a point of mentioning Michael Faraday's Christian Fundamentalism and yet the guy was a brilliant scientist who's name everyone should recognize from one of his least important inventions the Faraday cage. And if you want to talk about fanaticism, Tyson points out that Sir Isaac Newton worked for years hold up in a room all day, every day, trying to decode secret messages from the Bible.

Yet to the extent Newton kept his god out of his physics, well I think everyone is aware of his genius.

I'm of the impression that Dr. Tyson thinks of the issue as revelation vs. investigation.

Al-Ghazali's achievement was to expand the role of Sufism in Islamic philosophy. Sufism is an inner mystical core of 'knowledge' about the Truth of God. A-G had come to the conclusion that the Truth could not be reached through demonstration of Reason nor Revelation. My impression is sort of like Kierkegaard's "leap of faith."

There is some back and fourth discussion about Tyson's comments on Wiki Talk. I will relate two opposing opinions here. None of them, however, refers to the Mongol Conquests.

I just came across this speech of Neil deGrasse Tyson in which he said that Imam Ghazali wrote: "Mathematics is the work of Devil". In such a scholarly seminar or conference, he does not even cite a single sentence of Ghazali, which would justify what he says. It seems that he is completely unfamiliar with the works of Ghazali. Here are some books of Ghazali in which he directly talks about Mathematics; its status in Philosophy and in Islam: al-Munqidh min ad-dalal, Miyar al-Ilm fi fan al-mantiq (Criterion of Knowledge in the Art of Logic) and in the Preface of Incoherence of Philosophers. -Ariana310 07:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


And this one: He cites the line about wool turning black in the fire because Allah wills it rather than a chemical change. Al-Ghazali did help launch Sufism into the mainstream and result in the downfall of Baghdad as the intellectual capital of the world. There's a reason why most of the science from that time gets traced back to that period in time and ever since the Muslim world has stopped producing any good scientific literature or study. He may not have been directly responsible but he did a lot to help orthodox Islam to take charge in the area. Tyson never argued with was the downfall of society or civilization... just that it was the downfall of independent thought and scientific inquiry in the area. He doesn't appear to be wrong. It isn't a criticism if al-Ghazali more of Sufism itself, but does warrant a note in the article as others have prior to and since made the claim and it's largely accurate. Tat 03:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

ciao


< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/9/2014 1:12:57 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 409
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 12:52:33 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

How marvelous! You mean I am getting younger not older, time in reverse mad scientist, mystery meat, looney tunes, I mean music mystery...I have the hardest time with names oh my.
yes I was fishing and you were caught hook, line and sinker. Take the bait . Trolling is a form of fishing but I was casting a net sweetness. Dont go swimming with the feeshes, I meam fish, yes yes thats what I mean.
I am in the shark tank land of opposition am I not? I am not popular? I am totally crushed I thought I was in a popularity contest.
I was expecting a standing ovation.
I will still stick with God I do hope you arent toooooo offended by that, it could really hurt your feelings, I mean my feelings. You wouldnt want that would you?

xoxoxo much love to you


If you excuse me I will resume my tantrum of kicking and screaming, it makes me feel young, strong powerful and religious.



God isn't your problem.

And I'm grateful that the bulk of religious people I know are far better people than this.

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 12:54:10 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		It's worth noting as well that there's a strong debate within Islam about Sufism itself.


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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 1:01:56 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

The young soldier stood up and calmly replied, "GOD
was too busy today protecting soldiers, who are
protecting your right to speak such stupidity and act
like an idiot. So He sent me."

The glaring irony of the story is that while God was protecting soldiers protecting the professor's freedom of speech one of those soldiers took away the Prof's freedom of speech by assaulting him. How warped is that?

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 1:14:43 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's worth noting as well that there's a strong debate within Islam about Sufism itself.



Wouldn't doubt it.

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Profile   Post #: 413
RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 2:10:14 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Humans are funny creatures. Some have total faith in something greater, they just have the ability to know. Then you have some that are total absent of it. Each think the other is limited and living in a bubble.


Certainly there are some atheists who have never been theists but the majority of us were once among the faithful. We've been there, done that. It's not that we're ignorant of the kind of experiences and feelings that have convinced you, it's that we have a deeper understanding of those phenomenon.

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 3:04:10 PM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		If you actually had an understanding you never would have left. You think you had an understanding.
Sorry that doesn't fly, it sinks. Be a mule and stick to complete reasoning.
Most people will end rejecting anything that doesn't support their own will. Basically they don't believe because they won't follow the life because it's traditional or considered dark ages. But it's more about escaping or avoiding certain disciplines that might not include such things as let's say different sex positions with different partners for example. Learning this just isn't on our top priority list.
enjoy your life and keep searching.
A shame your faith recipe didn't make it to God. Too bad you failed by quitting.
Toodles.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Humans are funny creatures. Some have total faith in something greater, they just have the ability to know. Then you have some that are total absent of it. Each think the other is limited and living in a bubble.


Certainly there are some atheists who have never been theists but the majority of us were once among the faithful. We've been there, done that. It's not that we're ignorant of the kind of experiences and feelings that have convinced you, it's that we have a deeper understanding of those phenomenon.


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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 3:28:53 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

If you actually had an understanding you never would have left. You think you had an understanding.
Sorry that doesn't fly, it sinks. Be a mule and stick to complete reasoning.
Most people will end rejecting anything that doesn't support their own will. Basically they don't believe because they won't follow the life because it's traditional or considered dark ages. But it's more about escaping or avoiding certain disciplines that might not include such things as let's say different sex positions with different partners for example. Learning this just isn't on our top priority list.
enjoy your life and keep searching.
A shame your faith recipe didn't make it to God. Too bad you failed by quitting.
Toodles.

Believe what ever lets you sleep at night but the truth shall set you free.

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 4:20:15 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel




Certainly there are some atheists who have never been theists but the majority of us were once among the faithful.

the majority?
speak for your fucking self mate.
I think the majority of atheists have always been atheists.
Personally I don't know anyone who's flip flopped.

As far as I can tell most god botherers were indoctrinated as children and the stream only flows one way as they grow up and gain critical faculties

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 4:21:40 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Oh come on now, should we practice tolerance to stupidity?


Jeez, Chatterbox. You are skating on such thin ice.

_____________________________

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 4:24:54 PM   
deathtothepixies


Posts: 683
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24



Oh come on now, should we practice tolerance to stupidity?








Apparently we do given the number of responses to your drivel

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RE: The Erosion of Progress by Religions - 6/9/2014 4:28:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel




Certainly there are some atheists who have never been theists but the majority of us were once among the faithful.

the majority?
speak for your fucking self mate.
I think the majority of atheists have always been atheists.
Personally I don't know anyone who's flip flopped.

As far as I can tell most god botherers were indoctrinated as children and the stream only flows one way as they grow up and gain critical faculties

Really?

I know very few atheists, and I know a lot, who were not raised in some sort of religion.

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