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RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 9:53:54 AM   
starkem


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
Maybe I need to consider putting up my picture, but I love my anonymity. I am like batman; the mask comes with the crime fighting in Gotham (smile). Now if I could only get that decoder ring. ;). I like being an outsider. Maybe because I am usually a loner I don't feel feel some are receptive to my bullshit, but don't we all have it. I do try to enjoy my time here or I just wouldn't do it. I think we can have a discussion about the perceived hazing as well.

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 2:10:57 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I think there has been marked improvement in the over-all tone of these boards and I couldn't be more pleased about it.


I agree. I believe it's due to the fact that a lot of people who thought this place was "theirs" learned harshly that they were wrong. So there is less territorialism now.



But there's still a fair amount of ass-licking.

quote:



The downside was that a lot of posters with the most real-life experience left, so there are fewer sensible suggestions now. More "I feel that this will work," and not enough, "When I was facing the situation you're describing I tried this, and learned the following."


Oh, I completely disagree. I think many of the posters (then, now, here, Fet, K2) are mostly full of poor advice and a jilted perspective, no matter how many ropes classes they've taught or how many munches they've been to.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 2:16:05 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different, think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?


Yes, I can, and you're right. It is not just how it is. It's how people make it.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 2:19:26 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I think there has been marked improvement in the over-all tone of these boards and I couldn't be more pleased about it.


I agree. I believe it's due to the fact that a lot of people who thought this place was "theirs" learned harshly that they were wrong. So there is less territorialism now.



But there's still a fair amount of ass-licking.

quote:



The downside was that a lot of posters with the most real-life experience left, so there are fewer sensible suggestions now. More "I feel that this will work," and not enough, "When I was facing the situation you're describing I tried this, and learned the following."


Oh, I completely disagree. I think many of the posters (then, now, here, Fet, K2) are mostly full of poor advice and a jilted perspective, no matter how many ropes classes they've taught or how many munches they've been to.


I am curious. How much experience do you think is needed to reply to the many existential threads that have come up lately?

Because those threads don't require knowledge of ropes or having gone to munches.

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 2:37:25 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


I am curious. How much experience do you think is needed to reply to the many existential threads that have come up lately?

Because those threads don't require knowledge of ropes or having gone to munches.



I'm sorry. I'm not following. Isn't that my point? That ropes knowledge or munches don't really have any bearing on whether I find their advice to be sound? (Unless, of course, the question is relative to skill with ropes or attending a munch.)

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 3:26:24 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
God, can't we all just eat some humble pie and get along though?

GotSteel- at one point you said that sometimes mods jump in and shut everyone up on other forums you have been on.

I'm used to a less moderated forums than this one (this one is truly the most modded one I'm on...), I'm kinda curious when and where you think that line is for a moderator? Is it the moderators job to shape the community to what you envision? and why?

Mod3 should also chime in, if allowed...

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 3:39:55 PM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline
Dear GotSteel and Everyone else,

I'd like to address a few things because I said I would. Yes, I seemingly took my sweet time, but I really do have a full schedule here and within my home life. I was trying to be light hearted in my response hoping that the unsaid would suffice and to your credit, you weren't going to allow that. (Smile) I do understand. What you could not see was what I could not explain and I still cannot. What I can do is try to give you some assurances and then you can test me. I hope that will be of some use.

While we do have less moderation than at some other times and I must be very careful not to over-moderate, there are some guidelines that even I must go by. Some made for me and those that I have made myself and insist upon with anyone on staff here on the forum. I cannot sum up what can take a very long time to learn, but basically, we will have consistency, fairness and honesty from moderators. If I cannot trust that they will learn the objectives and go by moderation teams standards, goals and intent, then we will have to part ways.

You may not have been around or noticed, but I can be friendly, but I can also be one insistent force, protective and determined and I rarely take prisoners, I tend to do away with them. Sometimes I must step down hard, but I do not like to be put in that position. I would rather smile, joke, play and give information and even answer for myself and whatever team I have at the moment. Moderators are accountable, as am I.

Snark and adult play is allowed, we can permit tough talk, but in certain areas, I will call a quick halt to certain things and can give assurances in certain situations. If you will note the guidelines in Introductions, you just may get a feel for how things are to go with new forum posters. Introductions is a safe zone, there will be no attacks, correction, or beating up of new people. If you see it, I have missed it and no one has reported it.

In other areas of the forum, I will step in when I feel it is best. I have available more information than a member will have. I may figure, you hit first, you may get hit back. You’re an adult, you acted like an adult and other adults will respond. I am not judging the worth of someone as it may seem and in some sense could be without intending to, but I cannot and will not try to control all things. You play; you may get hurt.

We will not have groups of friends running wild on the forum that are allowed to bully other members and get away with breaking rules that others members are held to. You have my word on that and I take it seriously. This includes the staff. They will not be allowed to abuse, nor will I allow them to be abused. A member can say something about a staff member and hopefully they would be truthful and I will look into it. If it is about me, then I will answer to whomever it is that I answer to. I will not hide it or from it.

That doesn't mean that if someone believes that moderators should do things their way or that we will take being abused, hounded or harassed, etc. We cannot please everyone and some refuse to be pleased. There isn't much I can do there. I try. I do not have ultimate power and do not want it.

I have many things I must consider and the overall health of this forum is my goal. It isn't going to be good for members or the forum to allow outright bullying. Depending on where you are, if you place yourself in a Feisty section and expect me to come barging in to protect you, well you can just about count that out. If you are having a hard time dealing with what members are allowed to do there, I would recommend not posting in those areas. You have other choices and sections you can take part in.

When I said that it is a message board and things like this happen, it is my truth. My words are nether prophetic nor that powerful. Because I state that things happen with an attitude of it will be what it will be, doesn't mean that I step back and let it all be. Just ask a few around here. I am sure they would love to tattle on me. What I mean is I am not going to go hyper mod, freaking out because people are people doing what they do on a message board. I may roll my eyes, breathe deep, spill my drink, choke on my drink, and sometimes I may even get angry, but I hope to be consistent in how I respond. I want consistency, honesty, fairness and to be as transparent as we can be as staff and still offer some protections from things that have actually happened around here. No one gets to be a bully.

If we have to take action, we will. For the most part, I do not enjoy having to take action. I find no satisfaction in it. I may have failed to make myself clear or failed in some manner and I will examine it. This is my personal creed.

I know this was long but I hope that you and others will see my intent. I am open to suggestions, may not be able to take all of them, but will make happen what I can.

It is because of many regular members that stood up and said, we want this place and will stay and see what happens, that things have been turning around. When an ambulance took me away and I couldn’t get here, when trouble started, members stepped up and didn’t allow it to become what it could have been. I was so surprised and pleased. I couldn’t believe it. It is that, which keeps me going at this no matter how tired I may get.

I love ya man!

Feel free to email me. I may be slow with the mail, but I will get to you as soon as I can.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 3:48:37 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

You may not have been around or noticed, but I can be friendly, but I can also be one insistent force, protective and determined and I rarely take prisoners,


What would it be like if you *were* to take the occasional prisoner, M3? Do you have a dungeon, for instance? Would you be *very severe* as a prison warden - goosestepping around in thighboots, and stuff? Just wondering.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Moderator3)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 3:51:04 PM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline
Peon.

No comment.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 3:51:52 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
That was super fast. Thanks for your perspective!

(in reply to Moderator3)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 5:29:26 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
I can attest to Mod3 being friendly.
:)

Scary, but friendly.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 6:34:32 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine

IMO the OP on the other thread was asking a valid question. Why indeed do so many people set themselves up for failure by messaging someone for whom they clearly do not fulfil essential criteria?



Messaging someone (privately) is a lot different than posting a question or conundrum, here, publicly.

I try to give new people the benefit of the doubt, here on the boards.

If someone messages me, on the other side, the level of respect and lack of snark in my response is directly proportionate to their level of inappropriateness or out-and-out scam script.

Even there, I try to give some benefit of the doubt to someone who screws up the courage to message me because unless they're a scammer (or a complete twat waffle), they are probably new and already quite daunted by the enormity of the life they have embarked upon. I know I was, when I first wound up, here.



Michael


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 7:36:48 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Personally- I want to get gang banged by several strangers at once and passed around like beer- is that really a realistic fantasy for me?

I would certainly think so. There are of course other ways to go about this but my advice is that there have been plans to schedule a Boston Invasion play party at a new club in RI where penetration is legal. The Invasions typically draw a few hundred people, people who overwhelmingly are looking to play so you'd have a pretty good pool to find a handful of people in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Do I really not care about my own health and safety that much that its "all I want"...do you not think folks would say..."Here's why thats a bad idea- aim for something more realistic" That isn't bashing my kink- just stating the general nature of it.

What's unrealistic? It's a completely achievable scene. According to the accounts I've read on fet it's a little hard to find guys comfortable with the idea that they might bump into each other during sex, but it is doable. Also if it doesn't have to be guys, I've seen that scene with lesbians using strapons at the Society in CT.


(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 7:42:57 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Personally- I want to get gang banged by several strangers at once and passed around like beer- is that really a realistic fantasy for me?

I would certainly think so. There are of course other ways to go about this but my advice is that there have been plans to schedule a Boston Invasion play party at a new club in RI where penetration is legal. The Invasions typically draw a few hundred people, people who overwhelmingly are looking to play so you'd have a pretty good pool to find a handful of people in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Do I really not care about my own health and safety that much that its "all I want"...do you not think folks would say..."Here's why thats a bad idea- aim for something more realistic" That isn't bashing my kink- just stating the general nature of it.

What's unrealistic? It's a completely achievable scene. According to the accounts I've read on fet it's a little hard to find guys comfortable with the idea that they might bump into each other during sex, but it is doable. Also if it doesn't have to be guys, I've seen that scene with lesbians using strapons at the Society in CT.




I mean...I am all for it- but how can you ensure that everyone is using condoms and washing hands between vaginas? For me thats where I don't find it a realistic situation to find myself in if I value my safety or remaining disease free- I'm not saying it can't be done, but I would certainly warn a naive poster about the dangers of that if they wandered in here asking about it. Wouldn't you?
I'd also warn them about finding out things they potentially don't like, and knowing its ok to withdraw consent.

To me, that isn't discouraging, its practical, sound advice.

(Personal note- I'm not really a candidate for it, personally I know that. I don't even go to educational events that often because I could trigger my PTSD, THIS situation, while nice to masturbate to, would set me off in a huge way in real life. Plus, I'm legit terrified of AIDS and even if I've been monogamous with someone for 5 years still get tested yearly, and would have my doctor test me more than that if I had the money for all those blood tests)

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 9:39:56 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
"Here's why thats a bad idea- aim for something more realistic" That isn't bashing my kink- just stating the general nature of it.


Sure, I'd agree with that. I mean in some of the threads we're talking about ideas which aren't actually bad and are realistic but you're right, being mistaken about that and giving bad advice is not remotely similar to cyber bullying. Thing is we're not just a community of constructive criticism, judgmentalism and destructive criticism are popular.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 9:53:52 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
I really can't think of many examples of what you're talking about.

Go check out (sorry I'm on my iPad and linking is a bitch)
"Sub to switch" in ask a switch
"Old dogs new tricks" in ask a sub
"Sub/Dom whatever" a post by NookieNotes in general, near the top

I mean, I think those are all answered nicely have great points and constructive conversation.

If you're talking about findommes and do me subs trying to drive people to their profiles, I honestly think they should expect some snark.

I want examples.
I want your suggested responses.

I'd agree this place isn't really as fetish friendly as it could be, and I'm constantly surprised by how prudey some folks are. When on get there are titties everywhere.

I think a good deal of shit sticks have left.
I only stir the pot in p&r and rarely. Other than that I tell people what I would in real life. Honestly.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 9:55:49 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
I mean...I am all for it- but how can you ensure that everyone is using condoms and washing hands between vaginas?

So, if we're talking about guys fucking you there's just the one vagina and part of the negotiation would be that everyone wears condoms. There are typically dungeon monitors at play parties to help insure that things are safe and if you could get someone you trust to oversee things that would be even better.


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
For me thats where I don't find it a realistic situation to find myself in if I value my safety or remaining disease free- I'm not saying it can't be done, but I would certainly warn a naive poster about the dangers of that if they wandered in here asking about it. Wouldn't you?


Absolutely, that's why I pulled up this link for a rapid in home HIV test kit (so I'd be ready for this part of the conversation) before writing my first response to you:
http://www.cvs.com/shop/sexual-health/pregnancy-fertility/hiv-tests/oraquick-in-home-hiv-test-skuid-896631

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 9:59:49 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
Oh I know about those...

Answer my questions pertaining to this forum, rather than my silly example, I'll never do it, so it doesn't matter.

< Message edited by shiftyw -- 12/3/2014 10:03:11 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: hazing new posters - 12/3/2014 10:19:05 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

You may not have been around or noticed, but I can be friendly, but I can also be one insistent force, protective and determined and I rarely take prisoners,


What would it be like if you *were* to take the occasional prisoner, M3? Do you have a dungeon, for instance? Would you be *very severe* as a prison warden - goosestepping around in thighboots, and stuff? Just wondering.


Peon, you're such a cock block.

This is generally a fast reply.
I would say that there is a lot of territorial pissing. But I like light handed moderation. I never felt like I needed a Mod to "save me" unless shit takes a weird turn like Peon's leg humper. In all fairness though I am pretty tough and smart assed and I have done numerous debates over the years so I don't go down very easily, not by a long shot. Other less assuming members may shy from the forums but I'm sure many enjoy reading and observing from afar. However I have engaged young and intelligent professionals who after a few days of attempting to participate in the forum, not only decide not to be a part of it but sometimes withdraw from the site entirely. They might have anyway but when someone has nothing but negative things to say about the reception and ongoing nuances of the forum and they are pretty intelligent, polite and laid back in general, it shows there might be something to their concerns.
No one HAS to agree with everything the members say in order to be "accepted" or "legitimized". Forgive my french but "fuck that shit." (And I enjoy most of you for the record so take no offense).
And in all due respect OP, you shouldn't let it bother you too much because it is entertaining if nothing else and all advice given including my own should be taken with very tiny ground up grains of salt. If anything that might be a good idea as a disclaimer for new posters. So they know it's not gonna be all blankets, cookies and warm milk.
Sometimes the advice given gives literally NO wiggle room for objectivity, being on a forum for an ongoing time makes no one an expert including myself. We only speak from our personal knowledge and perspective. And there are/have been mean assholes on here. There are things I know I care not to bring to light and never will, so this whole "but we're just doing the best we can" reasoning isn't really making the cut, at least not with me. People gossip, are two faced, are all about that drama. I chose not to play ball. I knocked that fucker right out of the owner's hand when offered. I do whatever is within my comfort zone and everyone should do the same. Nice in theory I know, and some with the feeling of "fuck this, I'm going it alone because all I'll get is unjustified ridicule and mockery" means they have too high a sensitivity chip for this but then so be it. I may not necessarily blame them but to stay or go is their decision and I'd respect it. To note, the current state of affairs has been working for a long time to some degree we can all admit.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 12/3/2014 10:39:33 PM >


_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 1:44:58 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
Posts like this arise on a fairly regular schedule. My response doesn't change. If you walk into a party full of people you don't know, then it is incumbent on you to fit in. You can expect others to cater to you, but it's highly unlikely to happen.

If however, you are polite, introduce yourself, and try to fit in, you probably will be welcomed. Part of that includes deciding if this group is a good fit for you or not. Not demanding the group culture changes for you.

Now, if you can do this in real life, then I don't understand why you can't do it online.

All of us were new once, and presumably we didn't run away screaming. Instead we took our time getting to know others and making friends. I expect others to be as competent online as off. They've said they are adults in order to join the site. Myself, I take people at their word and expect them to act like adults. I coddle children, not grown ups. YMMV.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 12/4/2014 1:45:26 PM >


_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 40
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