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Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 8:17:36 AM

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Do submissives/slaves who identify as masochists usually have a preference for either humiliation or physical pain, or do they generally have an interest in both? I, personally, have a marked preference for humiliation, but I seem to encounter far more Dominants/sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain on their submissive(s) rather than humiliating them, and the "pain sluts" that I've known seem to have an easier time finding a kink-compatible partner. In your experience, are there more Sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain rather than humiliating their partners?

RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 8:36:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

In your experience, are there more Sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain rather than humiliating their partners?

All I can say on this matter is that humiliation has more to do with mental sado-masochism, and inflicting physical pain is sensation play.

Sadism aside, there are many Dominants who do not enjoy humiliating their partners, and many more who don't get into the degradation aspect of it, and neither do their sub partners.

Cuckolding involves mental humiliation, and in certain forms can incorporate physical humiliation. So can using chastity devices, depending on how it has been set up by the Keyholder Mistress, although ultimately this is more about (orgasm) control than it is about humiliation per se. (A chastity slave may enjoy being humiliated, but not all of them are into that either.) Sado-masochism enters the picture when there is what is called sexual torment.

Sexual humiliation can be either delivered verbally (as part of the mental) or through physical acts, such as being "forced" to do what has already been consensually agreed-upon.

Basically, there are separate kinds of dynamics at play.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 9:42:14 AM

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Not particularly, at least in all the men I've been with. They're pretty comfortable doling out physical pain and humiliation. My current partner even sneaks really mild degradation into really vanilla things/settings. I think the reason it just seems that the physical aspect is easier to find is that it's easier to see. You can be at a party and see how they're flogging someone, but can't always hear the things that the top may be saying.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 10:36:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do submissives/slaves who identify as masochists usually have a preference for either humiliation or physical pain, or do they generally have an interest in both? I, personally, have a marked preference for humiliation, but I seem to encounter far more Dominants/sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain on their submissive(s) rather than humiliating them, and the "pain sluts" that I've known seem to have an easier time finding a kink-compatible partner. In your experience, are there more Sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain rather than humiliating their partners?

I respond to both types of pain, I don't really have a preference, though humiliation is harder for me to process emotionally. I haven't really found that doms/sadists prefer one type over another, the people who I've been involved with, or have talked at length with have seemed to like both types too. Perhaps I just attract/am attracted to that type of person, or maybe I unconsciously weed out the other types earlier on.

(in reply to Zwilling)

RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 12:35:55 PM

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Over the years, I've encountered way more Doms that were interested in physical pain than humiliation. I would simply just explain that as the type of person that I've been attracted to. Since I have never been into humiliation, the people who have been into that have been weeded out very early on.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 6:02:39 PM

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The official definition of masochism is a person who feels the need to 'suffer'. Most often, in my personal experience, that suffering is physical pain, but the definition can just as easily include humiliation or even emotional pain.

On a personal note, I'm a raving masochist, but only for pain. Anything mental or emotional and I guess I react as any non-masochist would. Funny how it affects us all in different ways :-)

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/23/2014 6:10:31 PM

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We're much more about the physical pain with some mild humiliation added but never degradation.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 1:03:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

The official definition of masochism is a person who feels the need to 'suffer'. Most often, in my personal experience, that suffering is physical pain, but the definition can just as easily include humiliation or even emotional pain.

On a personal note, I'm a raving masochist, but only for pain. Anything mental or emotional and I guess I react as any non-masochist would. Funny how it affects us all in different ways :-)

This is kind of one of the points that I'd like to make. Whenever anyone identifies as a "masochist", people will generally imagine that that person is interested in physical pain, which almost makes me feel as if I can't apply the term to myself, at least not without explicitly stating that I'm not interested in physical pain. A (sadist) friend of mine even recently told me that I'm not a masochist, and taken in its most common sense (within the "BDSM community"), she was kind of right. At the time I didn't protest, but having an interest in humiliation/degradation makes me feel like I should be able to identify as a masochist.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 3:14:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling
A (sadist) friend of mine even recently told me that I'm not a masochist, and taken in its most common sense (within the "BDSM community"), she was kind of right. At the time I didn't protest, but having an interest in humiliation/degradation makes me feel like I should be able to identify as a masochist.

No, you definitely are a masochist. I think the term I've most often heard is 'emotional masochism' but you're right that people often do list degradation or humiliation play as separate, in order to identify it.

I tend to stay well away from kinksters who think they can tell me what I am and am not. It might seem harmless or benign at the time, but it's like acid, working its way into your sense of belonging and inclusion. You ARE a masochist, you're just not a pain slut. There is NOTHING wrong with fantasising about different kinds of suffering or challenging so-called sadists to shake up their repertoire or their ideas of sadism. Yes, you may need to give more detail about your preferred kind of suffering and you may need to reject more sadists who are not suitable for you, but you're just as much as masochist as anyone else who claims the label.

It might help you to read 'Venus in Furs' by Masoch and see how little is based on physical suffering. It isn't the pain he's attracted to, it's the cruelty of the women that fascinates him - how they toy with him, pick him up or drop him, the imbalance between them and the mental anguish he goes through because of it.

It might also benefit you to look up psychiatric definitions of masochism, for example: "Sexual masochism refers to engaging in or frequently fantasizing about being beaten, bound, or otherwise made to suffer, resulting in sexual satisfaction. Blindfolding, spanking and humiliation in the form of defecation, urination, or forced imitation of animals are other methods used by these patients." "The essential feature of sexual masochism is the feeling of sexual arousal or excitement resulting from receiving pain, suffering, or humiliation." As you can see, humiliation is right there in the definition.

Masochism is not just desiring pain and anyone who says it is has not done their homework. Be determined to use the labels you feel apply to you and don't let anyone tell you what you are not.

(in reply to Zwilling)

RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 7:06:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

No, you definitely are a masochist. I think the term I've most often heard is 'emotional masochism' but you're right that people often do list degradation or humiliation play as separate, in order to identify it.

I was thinking of using the terms "emotional masochist" and "emotional masochism", but I think those terms have also got some non-BDSM/psychiatric definitions that may not accurately describe what it is that I am, or what it is that I'm looking for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

I tend to stay well away from kinksters who think they can tell me what I am and am not.

That's probably a good idea. I don't think that the person I was talking about was really trying to tell me what I am or am not. She told me that purely in the context of a conversation we were having about the most common, garden-variety masochist: the pain slut. What she meant was that I'm not a pain slut or that I'm not into physical pain, but for her, the words "masochist" and "pain slut" are more or less synonyms, so that's the word she employed (and that seems to be the most common usage of the word when talking to people who are into BDSM). It was only later on that I started to question the fact that I'm not a masochist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

It might help you to read 'Venus in Furs' by Masoch and see how little is based on physical suffering. It isn't the pain he's attracted to, it's the cruelty of the women that fascinates him - how they toy with him, pick him up or drop him, the imbalance between them and the mental anguish he goes through because of it.

I did read 'Venus in Furs', although that was a little while ago. I definitely enjoyed it at the time, but I find the worshipfulness of the main character and the way he puts Wanda on a pedestal a bit irritating now. Personally I have a preference for Sade, mostly for the numerous non-consenting victims in his works and the thoroughly degrading situations that they often find themselves in. With Masoch, I have the impression that he's more interested in imagining that the women who interest him are these perfect, superior creatures that he can admire and worship.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 2:27:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do submissives/slaves who identify as masochists usually have a preference for either humiliation or physical pain, or do they generally have an interest in both? I, personally, have a marked preference for humiliation, but I seem to encounter far more Dominants/sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain on their submissive(s) rather than humiliating them, and the "pain sluts" that I've known seem to have an easier time finding a kink-compatible partner. In your experience, are there more Sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain rather than humiliating their partners?

Like most things involving BDSM, I find that dommes fall all along the spectrum. Can't really say whether physical or psychological pain is more common among dommes, and the two are typically intermixed. In any case, what I find is also a function of what I seek, so I don't think my data would be unskewed. Ultimately, I think finding a kink-compatible partner is difficult for most people.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/24/2014 2:40:30 PM

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I get the sense there are a lot more physical sadists out there than emotional.
Partly because you can do s & m play on a new person at a play party, but you need to really know someone well to do humiliation and degradation.

Beyond that, there seem to be more male subs into this than female ones. Small penis humiliation, being referred to as a lowly worm, etc. Not really a female thing and most female tops aren't that into it except for fin dommes in order to attract more paying clients.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/26/2014 6:57:49 AM

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for some like myself it is a combination of humiliation and physical pain that arouses, excites and leaves me satisfied. the physical pain works rapidly while the humiliation takes a lot of time to process. humiliation can be used for lenger periods and does not require a physical presense. perhaps submissives crave a lot of attention and the humiliation can extend the attention time he/she obtains from their Domme. this also allows a Domme to be very creative. pain can easilly be combined with humiliation in so many ways that push limits and open new areas to explore.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/27/2014 12:14:07 AM

Kana

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quote:

I get the sense there are a lot more physical sadists out there than emotional.
Partly because you can do s & m play on a new person at a play party, but you need to really know someone well to do humiliation and degradation.

This. Emotional sadism is artistry. I can train a chimp to beat a gal with a whip.
The latter is cavemen working with rocks. the former is brain surgery at the highest level.
It also involves someone who's wired a wee bit differently IMHE

quote:

Beyond that, there seem to be more male subs into this than female ones. Small penis humiliation, being referred to as a lowly worm, etc. Not really a female thing and most female tops aren't that into it except for fin dommes in order to attract more paying clients.

True that. and for whatever reason, it seems (Ooooh, I'm about to broadly generalize which means I'm gonna offend the fuck outta someone fer shur) sissy/tg's are the most fucked up of all. Those folk have freaking twisty minds, deep into degradation/humiliation/embarrassment et al.
Criminy-an ideal slave would have the body of a woman but the humiliation need/sex drive of a man. whoo mama, that would be a fun ride.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/27/2014 4:16:28 AM

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I am very sensitive to emotional sadism. My suggestion is that Doms take the time to find out if your sub needs it, can process it, before you employ it.

If you use it please make sure to make good use of aftercare to see that your sub is in good shape before you part or serious subdrop will probably occur. Call the next day and the day after to make sure they are ok. Don't use it every scene.

This advice was learned the hard way. Kind of a public service announcement to help other subs avoid what I experienced.

< Message edited by jnnyjnny -- 12/27/2014 5:20:04 AM >

(in reply to Kana)

RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 12/27/2014 6:58:56 AM

Kana

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quote:

I am very sensitive to emotional sadism. My suggestion is that Doms take the time to find out if your sub needs it, can process it, before you employ it.

Good advice

quote:

If you use it please make sure to make good use of aftercare to see that your sub is in good shape before you part or serious subdrop will probably occur. Call the next day and the day after to make sure they are ok. Don't use it every scene.

More good advice...most times. Some chicks just groove on degradation/humiliation. Kind words and soft aftercare ruins things for them, shuts em right down. They need to be denigrated through and through without ceasing. to do otherwise is to diminish oneself in her eyes. So this shit, like all real serious mental bondage/games, is tricky business. When in doubt, refer to point one immediately above.

quote:

This advice was learned the hard way. Kind of a public service announcement to help other subs avoid what I experienced.

Thanks for trying to make something positive for others from your negative experience.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 1/3/2015 4:02:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do submissives/slaves who identify as masochists usually have a preference for either humiliation or physical pain, or do they generally have an interest in both? I, personally, have a marked preference for humiliation, but I seem to encounter far more Dominants/sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain on their submissive(s) rather than humiliating them, and the "pain sluts" that I've known seem to have an easier time finding a kink-compatible partner. In your experience, are there more Sadists who enjoy inflicting physical pain rather than humiliating their partners?

I am a both please, preferably at the same time.

From both sides of the metaphorical whip I love the interplay of physical pain and humiliation. Just hurting someone physically leaves a lot to be desired for me, and just being hurt physically doesn't do a lot for me.

Though I am the kind of masochist that has that crossed wire that causes me to really enjoy physical pain, though breaking down my mind as well creates intimacy for me.

And humiliation is a tricky thing with a lot of grey areas, which are different for every person. Some things cut deep and others don't. Some like to be cut deep, and others don't. Also when I'm playing with scalpels I know how much pressure it takes to break skin, and I can easily see my results and progress. It is also something that doesn't vary much from person to person, skin for the most part is skin. The mind is the core of our identities and as such we are all extremely different.

It is also such a fluid thing. For the same person it is constantly changing. I can be really touchy and sensitive about something one day, and fine with it the next. Also something that might seem small may actually be huge.

Like dropping me in a trash can at a play party, a slight flush of the cheeks, but otherwise I find it hilarious. Last month when I was having a lot of problems with speech due to a neurological condition minor jabs in private at my grammar and word usage was just too much.

Humiliation really needs to be developed over time and in a dynamic with really good communication. Those kinds of cuts can only be know through communication, they bleed on the inside.

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(in reply to Zwilling)

RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 1/3/2015 4:45:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do submissives/slaves who identify as masochists usually have a preference for either humiliation or physical pain, or do they generally have an interest in both? <snip>

We have been getting a whole raft of these type of questions lately.

Generally, there isn't a 'general' anything.
For most of these questions it's all a matter of personal taste and preference.
Everything is very much individualistic and there is no direct correlation or anything 'usually'.

Making any sort of sweeping statement based on ill-founded assumptions of other people is just dumb.

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 1/3/2015 6:35:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zwilling

Do submissives/slaves who identify as masochists usually have a preference for either humiliation or physical pain, or do they generally have an interest in both? <snip>

We have been getting a whole raft of these type of questions lately.

Generally, there isn't a 'general' anything.
For most of these questions it's all a matter of personal taste and preference.
Everything is very much individualistic and there is no direct correlation or anything 'usually'.

Making any sort of sweeping statement based on ill-founded assumptions of other people is just dumb.

I agree but in this case the OP isn't making a sweeping statement. Rather s/he is just asking a question. Where do you get th idea that a sweeping statement is being made?

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RE: Masochism: humiliation vs. physical pain - 1/4/2015 2:19:50 PM

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I don't know about anyone else but when I say I'm into masochism and I negotiate scenes, I am only negotiating physical sadomasochism. I do not associate masochism with humiliation and I do not react well to people randomly throwing that in. Humiliation is some of those handle with care things and IMO it doesn't work well casually anyway.

Ask your partners first, and even if they're into humiliation it doesn't mean they're okay with you poking around at it.

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