quote:

ORIGINAL: SuddenlySatyr

damn, Elnard can see the future guys, they're standing on a psychic cars and what not.

Ok, you do realize the majority of our activity carries inherent risks right? Breath play, bondage, impact play can all kill you! FinDom is an informed consent fetish. These men actively seek these women. Your reasoning is that this is their only option, and that is BS. Aside from proDomination, there are escorts, there is sugar daddy.com, the list goes on.

Are there scammers? Ofcourse. There are predators through out the human population and that is when the law gets involved. Are you under the delusion FinDoms are new? No they have been around for a long time and were around back when you would get locked up for having bondage porn in your shop. Being aroused is not an excuse to make compulsive choices that negatively impact your financial security. It's called financial momentum and these subs are expected to maintain it. If they can't, they don't get what they want.


Submissive men not only have the choice not to pay, many don't. It is a radical act of submission that gratifies the finsubs. It is also worth noting that FinDoms get busted all the time, mainly for blackmail and fraud depending on their activities. This has been a dangerous fetish for both sides and how are we not discussing the realities of this fetish but rather dealing with this egotistical debate that only serves to demonstrate how intellectually insecure the Oracle of Delphi is. Oh wait this is the internet and we are on a message board -_-'. It was inevitable and should not distract from the conversation.

TL;DR
Much of BDSM is dangerous, but vilifying participation and declaring how right we are lacks what we are seeking: substance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

It's not unreasonable to expect if someone signs up on a dating website, subculture or not, they are looking for someone. It's also not unreasonable to expect that because sub men, despite having societal characteristics of the submissive role that is often pursued in women, are not pursued by domme women. It is then not unreasonable to assume that on a dating website, if they get no messages and want to utilize the function of meeting people, and the only avenue is to pay for it, then they will do so. . . . The part that makes you believe they want this is they've learned its the only way they get responses.

No one is going to contact them because they aren't gay male subs contacted by gay masters. They've learned the only way they will get any sort of response is to put money up front, . . .

Now, explain to me how on a kinky "dating website" that sub men are sitting around with their fingers up their. . . noses, not motivated to get a woman interested in them enough to consider dating them. What are these so-called "societal characteristics" which you are stereotyping as being passive and reactionary, and what makes you think that Dominant women need to be pursuing anybody? Would that be the armchair submissive of whom you speak? The one who is wishing upon a star for his fairy godmother to drop Xena the Warrior Princess-Mistress into his lap?

You don't have the foggiest idea how ignorant this makes you sound, when you speak of submissives as though they are a disenfranchised group of aimless, underachieving, socially handicapped (inept) incompetents who are utterly powerless without a Dominant shepherd to come along and lead them away from inevitably falling off the cliff of loneliness and despair. Omg, how shall we rescue them all from their brainless stupor in the nick of time!

But then, you must be speaking for yourself. Tell me, is this how those with lesbian slave profiles do things down in Texas? Or would that be Down Under instead? (Inside joke for party of one, not a homophobic slur.)

It is not unreasonable to expect whoever is doing the active seeking, to take the initiative to make contact. This is what I see happening. If not mass-mailed form letters, then there's the peek-a-boo profile viewing. I guess if you want to save a profile to get back to later, or want to stalk somebody's on-line time stamps, you save them as a favorite and thus become their admirer.
Anyhow, dudes view us. We see whether there is any remote possibility they might fit our preferred criteria, or out of curiosity, we view them back. We/they lose track of who viewed who first, and it turns into a mini-circle jerk. Oh wait, dude then shoots off a short note thanking us for viewing his profile. It isn't just submissive males who do this, by the way, plenty of Doms go this roundabout route with me.

FYI, none of the Dommes I know on this site ever require tribute or gifts to correspond with or to meet with them. We do get asked out on plenty of dinner or lunch dates prematurely which get turned down because pushy guys come across as too creepy to risk meeting up with, or too desperate-acting to consider.

Elnard, maybe you should stop trawling 20-something pay princess profiles looking for provocative pictures and getting your free humiliation fix.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard
Your very first sentence is entirely the issue. You are a straight female switch.

And yet, you were railing about there not being enough "actual lifestyle females who are not lesbians."

Like dreamlady. Like me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

It's not unreasonable to expect if someone signs up on a dating website, subculture or not, they are looking for someone. It's also not unreasonable to expect that because sub men, despite having societal characteristics of the submissive role that is often pursued in women, are not pursued by domme women. It is then not unreasonable to assume that on a dating website, if they get no messages and want to utilize the function of meeting people, and the only avenue is to pay for it, then they will do so. . . . The part that makes you believe they want this is they've learned its the only way they get responses.

No one is going to contact them because they aren't gay male subs contacted by gay masters. They've learned the only way they will get any sort of response is to put money up front, . . .

Now, explain to me how on a kinky "dating website" that sub men are sitting around with their fingers up their. . . noses, not motivated to get a woman interested in them enough to consider dating them. What are these so-called "societal characteristics" which you are stereotyping as being passive and reactionary, and what makes you think that Dominant women need to be pursuing anybody? Would that be the armchair submissive of whom you speak? The one who is wishing upon a star for his fairy godmother to drop Xena the Warrior Princess-Mistress into his lap?

You don't have the foggiest idea how ignorant this makes you sound, when you speak of submissives as though they are a disenfranchised group of aimless, underachieving, socially handicapped (inept) incompetents who are utterly powerless without a Dominant shepherd to come along and lead them away from inevitably falling off the cliff of loneliness and despair. Omg, how shall we rescue them all from their brainless stupor in the nick of time!

But then, you must be speaking for yourself. Tell me, is this how those with lesbian slave profiles do things down in Texas? Or would that be Down Under instead? (Inside joke for party of one, not a homophobic slur.)

It is not unreasonable to expect whoever is doing the active seeking, to take the initiative to make contact. This is what I see happening. If not mass-mailed form letters, then there's the peek-a-boo profile viewing. I guess if you want to save a profile to get back to later, or want to stalk somebody's on-line time stamps, you save them as a favorite and thus become their admirer.
Anyhow, dudes view us. We see whether there is any remote possibility they might fit our preferred criteria, or out of curiosity, we view them back. We/they lose track of who viewed who first, and it turns into a mini-circle jerk. Oh wait, dude then shoots off a short note thanking us for viewing his profile. It isn't just submissive males who do this, by the way, plenty of Doms go this roundabout route with me.

FYI, none of the Dommes I know on this site ever require tribute or gifts to correspond with or to meet with them. We do get asked out on plenty of dinner or lunch dates prematurely which get turned down because pushy guys come across as too creepy to risk meeting up with, or too desperate-acting to consider.

Elnard, maybe you should stop trawling 20-something pay princess profiles looking for provocative pictures and getting your free humiliation fix.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard
Your very first sentence is entirely the issue. You are a straight female switch.

And yet, you were railing about there not being enough "actual lifestyle females who are not lesbians."

Like dreamlady. Like me.

Thanks Nookie, I knew I left something out. Funny, though, how a "lesbian" would want there to be more non-lesbians to potentially show no interest in "her."

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

Now thank you that is a much better post and I appreciate it.

However, I already took into account everything. I did calculate out before this discussion began the possible outcomes, and the resource expenditure as well as risk/reward. You aren't giving me anything I haven't encountered before. The when in Rome thing is spot on, but you are forgetting, every time an old belief system is demolished "when in Rome applies" and the person bringing forth (agitator to the old hypothesis) goes in with full knowledge of this. If a starting point in a game is so disadvantageous, as straight male subs are being treated right now, then it skews the risk/reward formula and makes the calculations easier.

So yes, when in Rome, I knew that coming in, and it's noted and I'm glad you've toned it down, I'll do the same. But at the same time if you look at it from my perspective, and those affected, knowing I took the risk calculation into account, you have to wonder exactly how abysmally skewed and un-understanding society is of gender roles for this level of play to be pre-calculated and still be worthwhile.

In other words, if we're being forced into playing russian roulette how badly does the starting position have to be before it's better cost/benefit to decide to not play at all? Six bullets? Five? One? Why not just fire at your captor if they start you with one bullet?

The point is, through all of this, there have been 1000 views and more understanding, and there's no worse position to be in when findomme scams are this rampant, so yes, the calculation was done and it is advantageous as awareness spreads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

Now thank you that is a much better post and I appreciate it.

However, I already took into account everything. I did calculate out before this discussion began the possible outcomes, and the resource expenditure as well as risk/reward. You aren't giving me anything I haven't encountered before. The when in Rome thing is spot on, but you are forgetting, every time an old belief system is demolished "when in Rome applies" and the person bringing forth (agitator to the old hypothesis) goes in with full knowledge of this. If a starting point in a game is so disadvantageous, as straight male subs are being treated right now, then it skews the risk/reward formula and makes the calculations easier.

So yes, when in Rome, I knew that coming in, and it's noted and I'm glad you've toned it down, I'll do the same. But at the same time if you look at it from my perspective, and those affected, knowing I took the risk calculation into account, you have to wonder exactly how abysmally skewed and un-understanding society is of gender roles for this level of play to be pre-calculated and still be worthwhile.

In other words, if we're being forced into playing russian roulette how badly does the starting position have to be before it's better cost/benefit to decide to not play at all? Six bullets? Five? One? Why not just fire at your captor if they start you with one bullet?

The point is, through all of this, there have been 1000 views and more understanding, and there's no worse position to be in when findomme scams are this rampant, so yes, the calculation was done and it is advantageous as awareness spreads.

Again, there are no victims, there are volunteers. Every time you send or receive a letter on this site it says "Do not send money"... for a lot of the rants over FinDomme, it is buyers remorse... my personal rant is I bought a large container of ice cream that I do not much care for... since I ate some, I cannot take it back... I'll just have to live with the Breyers remorse of it all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

That's not a male's role, we need to save blonde girl because a homosexual female relationships (as fringe as it was when this show came out or whatever) is a hundred fold more acceptable than a male every taking the submissive role. I don't know, I didn't watch the show, I'm coming up with strange terms it looked like it sucked. But I can promise you two things without ever having seen it: either the blonde girl was the love interest, or the love interest was a kevin sorbo style hercules type man. There is no spot in again, hate to be a broken record, but there is no spot for a straight male to take that yellow haired girl role.

Who's to say that Kevin Sorbo character wasn't a submissive male? Therein lies your fallacy. You have equated your own cowardliness and lack of masculine animal magnetism with submissiveness.

There is nothing sexier than having a man with a powerfully masculine presence turn out to be sexually submissive to the ONE woman he desires to be utterly devoted to. It's sexy and intoxicating.

I've known more submissive men than you will ever buddy up with once you dare to venture out from your mom's basement. But I've also come into contact with plenty of your particular brand of wank fetishist, and those who are drawn to FemDom because they have the mental-emotional maturity of a man-child who runs to hide behind a woman's skirts. Not sexy whatsoever.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Again, you have a choice. Marriage is and always will be the first FinDomme institution... as you can see, you have options.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

That's not a male's role, we need to save blonde girl because a homosexual female relationships (as fringe as it was when this show came out or whatever) is a hundred fold more acceptable than a male every taking the submissive role. I don't know, I didn't watch the show, I'm coming up with strange terms it looked like it sucked. But I can promise you two things without ever having seen it: either the blonde girl was the love interest, or the love interest was a kevin sorbo style hercules type man. There is no spot in again, hate to be a broken record, but there is no spot for a straight male to take that yellow haired girl role.

Who's to say that Kevin Sorbo character wasn't a submissive male? Therein lies your fallacy. You have equated your own cowardliness and lack of masculine animal magnetism with submissiveness.

There is nothing sexier than having a man with a powerfully masculine presence turn out to be sexually submissive to the ONE woman he desires to be utterly devoted to. It's sexy and intoxicating.

I've known more submissive men than you will ever buddy up with once you dare to venture out from your mom's basement. But I've also come into contact with plenty of your particular brand of wank fetishist, and those who are drawn to FemDom because they have the mental-emotional maturity of a man-child who runs to hide behind a woman's skirts. Not sexy whatsoever.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

That's not a male's role, we need to save blonde girl because a homosexual female relationships (as fringe as it was when this show came out or whatever) is a hundred fold more acceptable than a male every taking the submissive role. I don't know, I didn't watch the show, I'm coming up with strange terms it looked like it sucked. But I can promise you two things without ever having seen it: either the blonde girl was the love interest, or the love interest was a kevin sorbo style hercules type man. There is no spot in again, hate to be a broken record, but there is no spot for a straight male to take that yellow haired girl role.

Who's to say that Kevin Sorbo character wasn't a submissive male? Therein lies your fallacy. You have equated your own cowardliness and lack of masculine animal magnetism with submissiveness.

There is nothing sexier than having a man with a powerfully masculine presence turn out to be sexually submissive to the ONE woman he desires to be utterly devoted to. It's sexy and intoxicating.

I've known more submissive men than you will ever buddy up with once you dare to venture out from your mom's basement. But I've also come into contact with plenty of your particular brand of wank fetishist, and those who are drawn to FemDom because they have the mental-emotional maturity of a man-child who runs to hide behind a woman's skirts. Not sexy whatsoever.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Again, you have a choice. Marriage is and always will be the first FinDomme institution... as you can see, you have options.

I am interested in hearing more about this. Specifically now I have some questions because I am curious and want to understand.

When you refer to a choice, what do you mean? An election for a straight submissive male with feminine tendencies between solidarity, going gay (impossible for someone who isn't gay by definition), or altering one's natural brain chemistry to be something they are not (machismo)?

Those are examples, but I am curious as to what you believe the choices are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard
Your problem here is that you are ignoring math and personal aesthetic tastes. Yes, particularly, you may exclusively be attracted to Herc, but we are calculating the problem on a societal scale, specifically at intersections in which there is misunderstanding and misrepresenation. It may have something to do with you being a straight female, I don't know how the brain works, but what I can tell you is that based on mathematical principles there are, given a large enough and equal set of men to women in the world, also a large enough and equal subset of women who would compensate the larger formula and create a haven or unit in to which the particular style (feminine presence/psychology/style) has value and is pleasing in a man.

quote:

FemDommes who never knew men were psychologically the same animal as women

quote:

By virtue of the function being rotten because of how we are socialized to not accept straight feminine boys growing up. Treat it like calculus instead of using your one case to create an aesthetic theory that all women must adhere to in submissive men and assume such a subset I described exists, but it sits somewhere in the mind that society never calls us to access due to complacency and fear of breaking certain roles at the expense of everyone playing being miserable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Again, you have a choice. Marriage is and always will be the first FinDomme institution... as you can see, you have options.

I am interested in hearing more about this. Specifically now I have some questions because I am curious and want to understand.

When you refer to a choice, what do you mean? An election for a straight submissive male with feminine tendencies between solidarity, going gay (impossible for someone who isn't gay by definition), or altering one's natural brain chemistry to be something they are not (machismo)?

Those are examples, but I am curious as to what you believe the choices are.

Your choice is to be someone who others enjoy being around, BECAUSE of who they are, rather than despite it.

I love submissive males. I own one of my very own. He is neither super-macho nor a sissy. He is a quietly confident man of medium-build, boy-next-door good looks, and a charm that makes nearly everyone love him.

And he is mine.

He pounds guys ten years his junior on mountain bike rides for 60+ miles. He does his work competently, and put himself through Architecture school. He dresses in an attractive manner that is all him.

And he begs to be humiliated by me, the woman who loves him.

And then there are men as you are presenting yourself as on these boards.

Whiny. Bitter. Full of themselves. Needy to the point of creepy. Sure that the problem lies not within themselves or their own personalities, but with those big meany-pants dommes who just won't give him a chance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elnard
Your problem here is that you are ignoring math and personal aesthetic tastes. Yes, particularly, you may exclusively be attracted to Herc, but we are calculating the problem on a societal scale, specifically at intersections in which there is misunderstanding and misrepresenation. It may have something to do with you being a straight female, I don't know how the brain works, but what I can tell you is that based on mathematical principles there are, given a large enough and equal set of men to women in the world, also a large enough and equal subset of women who would compensate the larger formula and create a haven or unit in to which the particular style (feminine presence/psychology/style) has value and is pleasing in a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgQPzq6ifc

This is spot on. Is this you?

quote:

FemDommes who never knew men were psychologically the same animal as women

Men and women are different, both physically and psychologically. You do know this, right?

Sure, humans have basic core needs that are the same in most. However, however those needs are expressed are different between the sexes, often.

quote:

By virtue of the function being rotten because of how we are socialized to not accept straight feminine boys growing up. Treat it like calculus instead of using your one case to create an aesthetic theory that all women must adhere to in submissive men and assume such a subset I described exists, but it sits somewhere in the mind that society never calls us to access due to complacency and fear of breaking certain roles at the expense of everyone playing being miserable.

Ah. Here are your issues, stated clearly.

1. You are not taking responsibility for your own desires, and instead blaming society.

2. You think because you are special and have special "out-of-the-box" differences from others, that your personal experiences trump everyone else's (her's a clue, dominant women are as out-of-the-box as submissive men, boy-o).

3. You're afraid.