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RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 2/15/2016 9:47:23 PM   
crumpets


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Like any scientific concept that is complex, the amount of conflicting data abounds.

For example, this article implies that cold weather actually improves the immune system:
  • Cold Weather Myths
    quote:

    "Researchers examined the immunological responses to cold exposure and found that acute cold exposure, such as going outside without a jacket, actually appears to activate the immune system."


    This story shows that medical doctors still spouted the same information that was taught me decades ago:
  • Does cold weather cause colds?
    quote:

    "When the weather turns cold," she says, "we all run indoors, where air is recycled and we're often in close quarters with other people and viruses. We all sneeze on top of each other."

    This is why the cold season is the same -- though maybe not as severe -- in warmer climates like Los Angeles as it is in colder ones like New York or Chicago.


    Yet, even they say the DRY air is a factor:
    quote:

    "Dry and cold conditions are probably more high-risk situations for viruses because of dry mucosa," adds Segal-Maurer. The mucosa, she says, is what lines your trachea, the back of your throat and your sinuses. Viruses invade the mucosa and start growing, causing your cold.


    And, of course, the obvious part of the classic question was covered here:
  • Can You Really Get A Cold From Going Outside With Wet Hair?
    where they said
    quote:

    "In order to get an infection you need to be exposed to an infectious agent," said Dr. Pritish Tosh, an infectious diseases physician and researcher at the Mayo Clinic. "There are several things that circulate during periods of cold weather -- influenza, different cold viruses. That's what you need to get infected. Going out with wet hair is not going to cause an infection. I think it more so just makes people uncomfortable."


    So, the good news is that we all agree that, at least in the United States, the "winter" is the cold & flu season, while the actual reason may be more complex than just the fact people are indoors more often (which is what I was taught decades ago).

    (in reply to crumpets)
  • Profile   Post #: 101
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 2/15/2016 9:58:41 PM   
    crumpets


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    BTW, in this thread, we have discussed three different non-living virions, which, I think it's instructive to have a picture in our minds of...
  • Herpes zoster (Shingles, Chickenpox)
  • Influenza (flu)
  • Rhinovirus (cold)

    Bearing in mind that a virus is a non-living complex chemical containing mostly a protein coat with either DNA or RNA inside, here's a diagram of each...

    Herpes Zoster:


    Influenza:


    Rhinovirus:

    (in reply to crumpets)
  • Profile   Post #: 102
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 2/16/2016 1:31:47 AM   
    stef


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets

    I never mind being shown wrong, although I am also very rarely wrong.

    Wrong.

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    Profile   Post #: 103
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 2/16/2016 1:41:38 AM   
    Cinnamongirl67


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    Oh no I must sue my nursing school for teaching wrong information! When you google it it says the same thing. It does talk about humidity as a contributing factor too.
    Did I lose my star crumpets?

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    Profile   Post #: 104
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 2/16/2016 5:59:53 AM   
    crumpets


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67
    Oh no I must sue my nursing school for teaching wrong information! When you google it it says the same thing. It does talk about humidity as a contributing factor too.
    Did I lose my star crumpets?


    You and UllrsIshtar both get to keep the red star!

    You and I were both taught that you can't catch a "cold" (insert whatever infectious disease you want there) by being cold, which, of course, must be true in the sense that if there is no infectious particle, then simply being cold isn't going to spontaneously generate the organism (although one could argue that an existing organism in your body can infect you - nobody is arguing that scenario).

    That people get "colds" (insert whatever) more so in the winter months in the northern hemisphere is clear (witness the "flu season"); so the question has always been how that happens.

    Dumb people just "assume" it's because they're cold - and that's as deeply as they go.
    Plenty of people are that dumb. It seems that perhaps 95% of the population is that dumb in fact.
    So, there will be plenty of misinformation on this topic - because it's one that dumb people just assume they know the answer to.

    Of course, you and I were taught the studies run by, as I recall, the military (who certainly CARES a lot about this issue), who determined that the cold itself wasn't what determined whether their test subjects got a cold or not. With each study in mind, subsequent studies can narrow down the factors.

    Looking at the four resources that UllrsIshtar found, I would categorize 3 of them as pretty convincing that there is more to the story, and of those three, the first two of them I'd say clearly have relevance in the real world (based on their analysis of real world conditions). (The third was in vitro only.)

    Even though those first two studies appear, from their language, to be formal scientific studies, I don't think there can be an certain conclusions yet, but the authors of those first two studies did make a convincing argument that HUMIDITY plays a role. However, the first study, which was perhaps the least confusing, didn't prove (to me) that being indoors DID NOT cause the higher incidence of the flu that they surveyed (so, for me, they simply left open a valid question of whether it was the fact people were indoors or the fact that the air was cold and dry).

    Of course, UllrsIshtar makes a valid point that schoolchildren probably are indoors in September and May just as much as they are in December and February, so, there does seem to be room for the "indoors" theory to be expanded upon by the addition of thermal and meteorological conditions.

    But, there were confusions, as are found in ALL scientific studies.

    for example, if we accept HUMIDITY as a key factor, it becomes somewhat confusing that both the dry and moist air had somewhat the same effects, but the authors of that second study didn't describe them the way that would have been easy to interpret.

    Here's what I would have expected them to categorize the hemispheric conditions as:
    1. cold, dry
    2. warm, wet

    But, instead, they categorized them as:
    1. cold dry
    2. humid rainy

    The fact the second study never used the terms I would have expected is partly confusing to me because humid and rainy are basically the same thing, while cold and dry are different - so one has to wonder what they really found since they really only found:
    1. cold, dry
    2. wet

    Which is harder to make sense out of.

    Like all studies, each paper is a small step forward, which is to say that maybe the answer isn't as simple as "people are indoors". The answer may be "people are indoors and the virus has a better chance of infecting us".

    (in reply to Cinnamongirl67)
    Profile   Post #: 105
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 9/12/2016 3:56:25 PM   
    maybemaybenot


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    FR: I haven't read the entire thread, so this may have been mentioned. I'm a nurse in Primary Care and this is probably the most requested vaccine. Personally, I want nothing to do with it. I've had shingles twice and still take a pass on it. I am not at work ( where my info from Merck is ) so my percentages may be a 1-3 off. Of note: Merck is the Pharmacuetical Company that makes the Zoster( shingles vaccine)

    This vaccine does not mean you won't get shingles. It reduces your chances by 51% overall and they claim it reduces HPN syndrome associated with Shingles, but only in 30% of the cases of people who get PHN. The Merck representatives supplied us with data to give our patients and they break that 51% reduction rate as follows:

    Age 60-69- 54% reduction
    Age 70-79- 34% reduction
    Age 80-89- 18% reduction

    I have given hundreds of these vaccines and any of the people who have gotten shingles, despite being vaccinated have had severe PHN dispite the 30% claim of reduction.
    Merck says it is a once in a lifetime vaccine, but they are doing more research and it ~ may ~ need to be given more frequently. We will see after they finish they're latest research project.

    What this says to me is it is they really don't know how good it is or how often you need to be vaccinated.
    Would I buy a car that they told me would run about 51% of the time ? would I take a blood pressure medication that worked 51% of the time ? Would I take a diabetic medication that works about 51% of the time ? No, I would not, so I won't put some vaccine in my system that they don't have complete data on.

    Admittedly I am not a fan of Pharmaceutical companies. In this case Merck has done an outstanding job of advertising this vaccine by scaring the crap out of people and not giving accurate information in it's commercials. I don't try and dissuade people from taking it, but I sure as hell will never take it and encourage my close family and friends to do the same.

    mbmbn

    (in reply to crumpets)
    Profile   Post #: 106
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 9/12/2016 6:03:39 PM   
    angelikaJ


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    The flu vaccine is not 100% effective either but my primary care physician informs me that I have less of a chance of dying if I even get a mismatched strain than if I don't get vaccinated at all.

    Edit to add:
    I have also had shingles twice.
    The second time was no big deal.
    I still get residual zaps from the first time.

    If you were able to get good pain relief when you had it, that is wonderful.
    In my case, the first time I broke out I always had pain.

    < Message edited by angelikaJ -- 9/12/2016 6:27:16 PM >


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    (in reply to maybemaybenot)
    Profile   Post #: 107
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 9/12/2016 7:56:47 PM   
    Greatlilbabygirl


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    My husband and my mom both have had horrible singles and still bear the scars. It looked so painful and I felt so helpless watching my husband go through that.

    (in reply to angelikaJ)
    Profile   Post #: 108
    RE: Please get the shingles vaccine - 9/15/2016 5:52:00 PM   
    maybemaybenot


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    I can't say I had good pain relief, quite the opposite. And like you I still get eruptions along either sciatic nerve. I just will not put something in my body that is basically still experimental for something like shingles. I respect your decision to take it, it's just not for me.

    The point of my post is that people are not aware that this is an incomplete vaccine. Merck Pharmaceutical has very misleading, fear mongering marketing strategies for this vaccine because they overpriced it and want to get the big returns. Most MDs,NPs etc don't give you the breakdown of efficacy of this vaccine. The general public thinks if they take this they will not get shingles.

    Interestingly enough, I was reading the news on my lunch break and came across the following article. The nurses I work with are all in agreement with what I have written and we have said since the minute it came out it was marketed to put fear in people for a product that is a " maybemaybenot". Take a minute to read this article. And after you do... think about the next step. Your doctor ( Your in the collective sense ) in 2017 will be telling you that their is a new shingles vaccine out and that the original one turned out to lose it potency, but this new one will not do that. Think about the trillions of dollars Merck has made from it's half vaccine and the amount of money drained out of Medicre, Medicaid, private insurance and people pocketbooks. And in 2017, when GSK does their marketing campaign, scaring the people who took the Merck one to death they too will make trillions of dollars from the Insurances and people pocketbooks. ( and we wonder why insurance is so high ) One of my points being we have become a society that expects that we should never be sick. We want a vaccine for everything that ails us. We will put anything in our bodies when we are told half truths about a product. We just accept on blind faith.


    http://palmbeachhealthbeat.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/07/13/new-shingles-vaccine-expected-in-2017-wont-weaken-over-time/

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    (in reply to angelikaJ)
    Profile   Post #: 109
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