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RE: Consensual non consent - 9/18/2016 3:29:12 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14412
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whitefang71


4 - As to someone's comment about not starting with D/s first - I have been in the lifestyle many years and been living D/s for most of that time.


The starting with D/s comment means that the relationship should start with D/s. So, unless you've been in a D/s relationship with this "slave" for "many years", your comment misses the point.

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Consensual non consent - 9/19/2016 2:59:30 AM   
eJohn


Posts: 8
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whitefang71

I came across this subject many years ago and always wondered why so many people are against it.

What are your views as regards this subject?

What would you say if a slave wants cnc, including being blackmailed, having finances controlled, tattoos/body mods to make is near impossible for her to be able to walk away without consequences?


I think the reason it sounds untenable to most people is because of the simple fact that people change. Situations change. What a person felt at one time might not be how they feel today.

I figure, if my slave becomes unhappy with his position, it's on me as his Master to deal with it, both from the "being a good Master" point of view and the "getting the most out of my slave" point of view. A slave is only worth having if he or she is happy serving. If I were to sit back and say, "Suck it up, dude--you signed up for this. Now STFU and get back to work!", unless that's the type of treatment that makes him happy, then I'm not being a good Master to him.

My salve(s) deserve better than being held to a standard that relieves me of the responsibility of being a good Master and taking good care of him.

(in reply to Whitefang71)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Consensual non consent - 9/19/2016 3:19:49 AM   
Whitefang71


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/5/2014
Status: offline 		As the original post was about CNC, what people thought about it and the request I had made to me - not about whether I should be doing it or not I don't see this has any relevance here.

Ejohn I totally agree with you.

< Message edited by Whitefang71 -- 9/19/2016 3:21:11 AM >

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Consensual non consent - 9/19/2016 4:22:38 AM   
Whitefang71


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/5/2014
Status: offline 		As there are other threads about this subject which I hadn't seen when I started this one I realise that this thread is not required.
Thank you to all those that responded.

(in reply to Whitefang71)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Consensual non consent - 9/19/2016 6:51:39 AM   
Aliendragun


Posts: 15
Joined: 4/4/2016
Status: offline 		My opinion: I do not see CNC as a dynamic! I can see it as a type of informed play in role play,home invasion or for those interested in the fantasy kidnap/rape play thing( I am not a fan of)
I have witnessed catastrophe and disdain when people try to pass this off as a dynamic,people get hurt!

(in reply to Whitefang71)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Consensual non consent - 9/19/2016 9:56:23 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14412
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whitefang71

As the original post was about CNC, what people thought about it and the request I had made to me - not about whether I should be doing it or not I don't see this has any relevance here.



It's normal thread drift. Everyone will have different discussion points as to what pops out for them from that OP. You can't control it and trying to control it will just backfire.


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Whitefang71)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Consensual non consent - 5/26/2017 4:57:10 PM   
MistressBrie23


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2014
Status: offline 		To me, consensual non-consent is consensual playtime, with a role play, or imaginative element. It's a silly term... you either consent, or you don't.

(in reply to Whitefang71)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Consensual non consent - 5/26/2017 5:34:32 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		At my house consensual non-consent play doesn't involve blackmail, or other methods to make it impossible to walk away. It simple involves play that is so extreme, that in the moment, the bottom would withdraw consent if they were allowed to do so.

This is, because in the moment, they feel they can no longer endure whatever it is that's going on.
However, prior to that moment, they realize they'll get to that point, and give the Top blanket consent to keep going when they reach it. Also after the scene, they're glad that the Top didn't quite when that moment was there, because otherwise the scene would have ended much sooner than it did.

When we play with consensual non-consent, safewords don't matter anymore. Neither does any other communication of a desire to stop. Neither do threats and pleas any longer have any effect. The Top doesn't stop, no matter what the bottom says or does, until they themselves deem that they want to stop (obviously keeping the condition of the bottom, and their safety, in mind).

My husband has my permanent consent to engage in consensual non-consent play with me, without specifically negotiating for it on a case by case basis.
Though most of our play isn't consensual non-consent play, and I don't really count a scene as having been consensual non-consent until after the request to stop was uttered and ignored (which he doesn't always do, sometimes he stops when I ask him to).

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Consensual non consent - 6/3/2017 9:08:04 PM   
NoirMetal


Posts: 508
Joined: 3/20/2017
Status: offline 		I hesitate to do anything like this with someone I am not in a long term committed relationship with.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Consensual non consent - 6/3/2017 9:29:24 PM   
ManOeuvre


Posts: 277
Joined: 3/2/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

... Personally, I see CnC folks in two camps. Those who do the view as I described above. Yes, that one time blanket consent means it covers everything from the time the s-type enters the dynamic and all it entails until such time as either of the parties wants to end the dynamic. At such time, consent has been withdrawn. The parties either go their separate ways or some renegotiate the dynamic but the CnC is game over. I'm pretty much in this camp because anybody has the human right to say they are finished.

Then, there is the other camp. That camp says that one time consent is for life, no matter what. Get that consent the one time, and even if one of the parties wants to withdraw that consent, as long as one of the parties still wants the dynamic to persist, the dynamic is still valid. Doesn't matter what the person who wants the dynamic has to do to drag the person who wants to leave back into their lives. Even the most extreme stuff. I'm not against most people's kinks but I mean the stuff that I just can't see as kink, any more.
...



I may suggest that there is a hybrid, LP, where there can be a time-lapsed leaving clause - essentially that it takes a set time from the revocation's expression to its recognition, and that during that period the revocation may itself be revoked.

Obviously a cool down period on the order of years makes the revocation essentially ineffective, but more manageable times can insulate fickleness and permanence from each other.

168 hours has a long enough stride to outrun periodic lunacy, in my experience.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Consensual non consent - 6/4/2017 9:04:04 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NoirMetal

I hesitate to do anything like this with someone I am not in a long term committed relationship with.


I would agree. It's a stupid idea to engage in consensual non-consent play with somebody you don't know exceedingly well.

For me, when I'm bottoming, a Top eager to engage in CNC without knowing me well enough beforehand would be a huge red flag.

Likewise when I'm Topping, a bottom wanting CNC without knowing me very well is also a red flag.

Anytime you engage in CNC play as a Top, you're literally putting your entire life in the hands of the bottom, because, if they decided to press charges afterwards, you're pretty much fucked forever, considering that you now not only engaged in illegal activities (you can't legally consent to a lot of BDSM activities in most places), you also engaged in those illegal activities against the active consent of the bottom. In court, nobody is going to pay any attention to you pleading: "But she told me she didn't want me to stop!".

Which also is what makes it kinda interesting: Usually in BDSM play, it's the bottom who takes the greatest risks (for injuries, stuff happening they don't want, getting triggered, etc), with the risks the Top assumes being relatively minor, especially if he's good and diligent about checking in and reestablishing consent mid-scene when needed (are you okay, do you want to continue?).
In the case of CNC play, suddenly the greatest are squarely in the Top's camp, because you're putting the bottoms risk of "the scene wasn't as fun as I wanted/I accidentally got injured" against "the Top's entire life is over, he's on the sex offender list for life, and doing jail time, while having NO valid defense against his actions in court".

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to NoirMetal)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Consensual non consent - 6/5/2017 12:28:32 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ManOeuvre
I may suggest that there is a hybrid, LP, where there can be a time-lapsed leaving clause - essentially that it takes a set time from the revocation's expression to its recognition, and that during that period the revocation may itself be revoked.

Obviously a cool down period on the order of years makes the revocation essentially ineffective, but more manageable times can insulate fickleness and permanence from each other.

168 hours has a long enough stride to outrun periodic lunacy, in my experience.

I could entertain the possibility, though I'm not sure I would be willing to put myself in that position.

Yes, there are some instances where people pop of at the mouth, in the heat of the moment, fueled by anger. Is it a situation where they just need to 'cool off' because when they aren't driven by emotions, they would say something entirely different?

Am I going to risk wearing prison orange over it? Hell no!



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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Consensual non consent - 6/5/2017 11:48:47 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Consensual Non Consent...

A dominant really really really really has to trust a submissive in order to safely indulge such a fetish. Why? Because, viewed from the outside a CNC scene readily appears to be kidnapping, torture, rape, and abuse. And, being consensual is no defense in the eyes of the law. A dominant risks liberty and even their life by indulging consensual non consent.

So, if you desire a CNC scene; you may have some hardship finding a person who will actually perform such and not just fantasize about it.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Consensual non consent - 6/5/2017 12:20:10 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		. . . "being consensual, in the eyes of the law" won't stop you from catching a criminal case.

A man walks into the AAA office where his wife worked. He goes to her desk (cube farm), takes her by the elbow and says "you're not working here anymore. My wife doesn't need to work." They argue a bit with her protesting about quitting, and then she coincides and voluntarily leaves with him. 3 miles later, he is arrested for kidnapping. The wife is not pressing charges and told the cops & prosecutor it was consensual. The prosecutor pressed the case anyway based on witness testimony from AAA office.

The husband plead guilty on deal to get probation because it cost $25,000.00 to defend a kidnapping case. Right... probation for kidnapping, it's the latest thing to prop up your numbers if you are a prosecutor looking for a promotion I guess. Anyway, point is, wife (victim) was a witness for the defense saying it was consensual and he still caught a kidnapping case over it.

I am just confirming what MercTech said about being careful. You have to be real careful about what and where you do that sort of thing because to onlookers, they see it as a crime. And even if your play partner will testify on your behalf like the story above, you may still find yourself spending big cash to fight a criminal case or end up convicted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Consensual Non Consent...

A dominant really really really really has to trust a submissive in order to safely indulge such a fetish. Why? Because, viewed from the outside a CNC scene readily appears to be kidnapping, torture, rape, and abuse. And, being consensual is no defense in the eyes of the law. A dominant risks liberty and even their life by indulging consensual non consent.

So, if you desire a CNC scene; you may have some hardship finding a person who will actually perform such and not just fantasize about it.



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I give good thread.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 34
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