quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
I'm really not trying to argue about this. But I understand your knee jerk reaction to me since I've been largely antagonistic on here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

I'm only looking at this from a personal perspective so I can't speak for you or your slave. I just know for me, being on either side of a one sided romantic relationship has been really difficult. But I also have a big sense of guilt when it comes to possibly taking unfair advantage of someone and I think knowing someone is in love with me but I don't return the feelings, it makes it easier to manipulate and use them and I don't like doing that. On the opposite hand, being in love with someone who doesn't love you back has been a horrible situation and triggered deep depression and even a suicide attempt in college. Like I said, it's personally never been advantageous for me to engage in a one sided romance. Things may be 100% wonderful for you and your slave.

What you're describing is the same thing as what I've addressed in the post above (which I was writing while you were writing this): it deals with a one-sided situation where one party's needs are met, and the other party's needs are not. As I described above, this doesn't apply to us, and so the things you're worried about don't apply.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Does she know you two don't love her?

Yup. In fact, it got discussed again just now specifically because of me mentioning replying to this thread. And she again expressed her concern that us starting to love her would change the relationship dynamic in such a way that the relationship would stop meeting her needs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
I'm really not trying to argue about this. But I understand your knee jerk reaction to me since I've been largely antagonistic on here.

No, I suppose "arguing" is the wrong word. you're just informing people of how abusive they are and heading for trouble for endorsing a relationship model you do not personally support. That's hardly even an attack, bless you.

Also, not unfounded or knee jerk considering the conversation you're pretending not to have on this same thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
I'm really not trying to argue about this. But I understand your knee jerk reaction to me since I've been largely antagonistic on here.

No, I suppose "arguing" is the wrong word. you're just informing people of how abusive they are and heading for trouble for endorsing a relationship model you do not personally support. That's hardly even an attack, bless you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

Here's a hint for you... love makes a Master weak... and slaves need strong Masters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Does she know you two don't love her?

Yup. In fact, it got discussed again just now specifically because of me mentioning replying to this thread. And she again expressed her concern that us starting to love her would change the relationship dynamic in such a way that the relationship would stop meeting her needs.

Interesting. I admire her. She sounds like a very strong person

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Does she know you two don't love her?

Yup. In fact, it got discussed again just now specifically because of me mentioning replying to this thread. And she again expressed her concern that us starting to love her would change the relationship dynamic in such a way that the relationship would stop meeting her needs.

Interesting. I admire her. She sounds like a very strong person

Just to provide some context for you: my previous relationship was with me as the slave to a Dominant couple, in the same situation of them not loving me, and me being madly in love with him. So I actually have personal experience with her side of the equation.

As well as with the aftermath of how such a relationship can go wrong, and the emotional effects it has to the person in love.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

Here's a hint for you... love makes a Master weak... and slaves need strong Masters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I find the difference between her attitude in this and previous thread refreshing and encouraging towards future such discussions about differences in experiences between herself and other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

Here's a hint for you... love makes a Master weak... and slaves need strong Masters.

Only somebody who doesn't actually accept that their slave is an actual slave, or who doesn't know how to master a slave, will be weakened by love.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

Here's a hint for you... love makes a Master weak... and slaves need strong Masters.

Only somebody who doesn't actually accept that their slave is an actual slave, or who doesn't know how to master a slave, will be weakened by love.

if my Master told me he loved me it wouldn't be good for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

Here's a hint for you... love makes a Master weak... and slaves need strong Masters.

Only somebody who doesn't actually accept that their slave is an actual slave, or who doesn't know how to master a slave, will be weakened by love.

if my Master told me he loved me it wouldn't be good for me.

Then, if he loved you, and he understood you were a slave, he should be smart enough not to tell you that he loves you.
That's exactly what a strong Master would do in that circumstance, btw: continue to meet your needs as a slave, regardless of the fact that he loved you, by not informing you of the fact that he did, and thus not triggering the insecurity it would cause.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual

Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.

Here's a hint for you... love makes a Master weak... and slaves need strong Masters.

Only somebody who doesn't actually accept that their slave is an actual slave, or who doesn't know how to master a slave, will be weakened by love.

if my Master told me he loved me it wouldn't be good for me.

Then, if he loved you, and he understood you were a slave, he should be smart enough not to tell you that he loves you.
That's exactly what a strong Master would do in that circumstance, btw: continue to meet your needs as a slave, regardless of the fact that he loved you, by not informing you of the fact that he did, and thus not triggering the insecurity it would cause.

Edited to add: Or he'd train you to overcome your insecurities, and be able to accept being loved while still feeling mastered. It would depend on his personal preferences really, the amount of time he wanted to put into it, and how important he considered it to prioritizing overcoming this defect in your personality compared to other issues you have be wanted to work on.

Personally I'll probably do the later one with my slave, and get her to overcome her insecurities around 'being loved' meaning 'no longer being kept as a slave' even if I never do end up loving her. Other priorities to hit first though, so it's currently pretty low on my list.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpiritual
I want my slave/sub to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life.

quote:

Personally I find the difference between her attitude in this and previous thread refreshing and encouraging towards future such discussions about differences in experiences between herself and other people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
While we are not an M/s dynamic, I don't think I could do what we do if they did not love me. I need to know I m loved if I am going to make myself as vulnerable (physically, emotionally, and mentally) as I do.

I have also a rather long history of being a fucktoy without there being any emotional connection, and I found it demoralizing, dehumanizing, and very bad for my self-esteem, it very nearly destroyed me. So yeah, I need to know I am loved, that I m precious to them, that I matter and that they care deeply for me, that they will do their best to indulge my dark places and yet protect me. That they will still want me even after I do some of the shit I do.

Now, that being said, I can understand, I think, where tamaka and Ishtar's slave are coming from, the idea of serving somebody who does not care for me, someone who does not value me other than for how I can serve/please them is terribly appealing to me, but that sort of objectified dynamic is not something I can do again. I am not strong enough, and am far to insecure to do so.