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Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 1:26:28 AM   
MasterSpiritual


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Am I alone in my belief that to master your slave/sub you go beyond the physical and mental
aspects to work with the slave/sub at the emotional and psyche level also? I want my slave/sub
to be all-in, not just her body and parts of her mind. I believe to really place the collar in the
correct place, she must feel like there is no quality of life without you in her life. It is not the collar
we place around their necks, but the collar we place around their hearts, that make them submissive
to us and to our desires for them. I rambled around this site and others for years, watching and
reading. I see sub/slaves rant about all the things missing in those contacting them. So I wonder,
as a sub/slave, does the majority want the collar on their neck or on their heart?

My motto: Know Thyself First, and you may know others.
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 3:53:37 AM   
Curmudgeonly1


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If I were you I'd forget about trying to be a master and focus on learning how, when and where to use apostrophes.



_____________________________

"The more defects a man may have, the older he is, the less lovable, the more resounding his success." Donatien Alphonse François

Dummheit straft sich selbst.

(in reply to MasterSpiritual)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 5:17:35 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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I don't really want a collar of any sort, I just want to make me and my Fellas happy

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 9:22:26 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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We own every inch of our slave girl. Inside and out. And we never set out to 'collar her heart'. My husband collared her, and her heart happens to be included in the package that is her.
She didn't love either of us when she begged the collar, neither did we love her.
Of course, along the way she fell madly in love with both of us... it's a side effect that was expected by us caused by owning the whole of her well. But it was never the goal to make her love us.
I still don't love her, though I care for her a great deal. My husband didn't love her either last time I checked, but it's been a while since the topic got brought up, so perhaps it changed. *shrugs*

I don't believe love is necessarily in the slightest in order to have an M/s relationship, though it's a side effect from good Mastery, and it's certainly a desirable one.

For other people, love is essential and comes prior to all else, including the start of the M/s.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 9:36:35 AM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

We own every inch of our slave girl. Inside and out. And we never set out to 'collar her heart'. My husband collared her, and her heart happens to be included in the package that is her.
She didn't love either of us when she begged the collar, neither did we love her.
Of course, along the way she fell madly in love with both of us... it's a side effect that was expected by us caused by owning the whole of her well. But it was never the goal to make her love us.
I still don't love her, though I care for her a great deal. My husband didn't love her either last time I checked, but it's been a while since the topic got brought up, so perhaps it changed. *shrugs*

I don't believe love is necessarily in the slightest in order to have an M/s relationship, though it's a side effect from good Mastery, and it's certainly a desirable one.

For other people, love is essential and comes prior to all else, including the start of the M/s.


Do you not feel the least bit uncomfortable knowing she's madly in love with you while neither of you share any love in return? That seems like a recipe for disaster.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 9:41:05 AM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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In response to OP, my heart is not any Master or Dom/me's to own. I gave it to my hubs 11 years ago. I made the mistake of thinking I was in love with my last master. I loved him as much as an already married woman could but to be in love to me implies the ability to give all of myself, and I couldn't. My husband told me he didn't want me falling for anyone else so I had to cut it off with my Master since my Master wants a romantic relationship and it was too much to ask of me even though I made it clear from the start what my commitment limitations were. I guess he thought he could change things by his Mastery over me. Didn't work out the way he planned. Him pushing the need to have Mastery over my heart pushed me away. He wasn't just happy having control over my body.

< Message edited by Greatlilbabygirl -- 11/20/2016 9:42:14 AM >

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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 9:55:26 AM   
LadyPact


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It's not going to surprise a huge majority of folks on this board that I very much disagree with the OP, but I agree a hell of a lot with Ishtar on this particular subject.

Love, romantic love, "in love," or however people want to describe that component, is not a necessary element in authority/service type dynamics of M/s. Granted, there are a good number of people out there on the other side of the slash, that honestly wouldn't feel fulfilled without it. At the same time, ownership, or slavery for that matter, is not necessarily an emotional thing for some people.

However, OP... I see what you did there. It's a nice advertising gimmick. It will definitely appeal to certain s-types who are desperate to be loved, that it will influence their decisions in selecting a potential owner. Some people won't recognize the angle you tried there. Maybe you think that will give you the edge over other Dominants or D/D couples. I don't know. However, anybody "rambling around for years" probably needs to be a little slick.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 10:00:10 AM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Do you not feel the least bit uncomfortable knowing she's madly in love with you while neither of you share any love in return?


Nope. Not at all. In fact, I anticipated it would happen that way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

That seems like a recipe for disaster.



Why would it be?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 10:16:59 AM   
littleladybug


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I personally would not be in an authority exchange relationship without feelings being mutual. I've been in a situation where feelings were stronger on one side, and it was a shitty place for me to be.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 12:17:13 PM   
Alecta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
That seems like a recipe for disaster.


Only if one side is expecting a regular love relationship with kinky role-play and the other is expecting a D/s-only relationship.
It's about time you get it into your head that your idea of D/s isn't the same as at least 2-thirds of the people you insist on arguing with on these forums.

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 12:18:51 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Do you not feel the least bit uncomfortable knowing she's madly in love with you while neither of you share any love in return?


Nope. Not at all. In fact, I anticipated it would happen that way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

That seems like a recipe for disaster.



Why would it be?

Just that someone in love is in greater danger of emotional damage, especially from someone who doesn't love them back, even if it's not your intention to hurt her.

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 12:21:36 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
That seems like a recipe for disaster.


Only if one side is expecting a regular love relationship with kinky role-play and the other is expecting a D/s-only relationship.
It's about time you get it into your head that your idea of D/s isn't the same as at least 2-thirds of the people you insist on arguing with on these forums.

I'm not arguing. I was responding to the scenario where the slave is in love but owners aren't. It makes the slave incredibly vulnerable imo. I don't think its necessary nor do I personally need love to be a component of a power exchange relationship. But one sided romantic relationships tend to emplode unexpectedly.


Google one sided love, and you won't find anything positive about it.

https://www.rootreport.com/one-sided-love-quotes/

< Message edited by Greatlilbabygirl -- 11/20/2016 12:26:16 PM >

(in reply to Alecta)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 12:28:28 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

I personally would not be in an authority exchange relationship without feelings being mutual. I've been in a situation where feelings were stronger on one side, and it was a shitty place for me to be.

I think it would be for most people, but I suppose there are always exceptions and some are fine with their slave or master being in love while they are not or vice versa.

(in reply to littleladybug)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 12:37:33 PM   
Alecta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
I'm not arguing. ....
Google one sided love, and you won't find anything positive about it.


Google "married and fucking other people", I'm sure you'll be able to find at least a dozen links with nothing positive to say about that either.

And then you'll find the men and women who actually set out deliberately to create a dynamic like that with or for their spouses.

Then google "echo chamber".

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 1:11:56 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Do you not feel the least bit uncomfortable knowing she's madly in love with you while neither of you share any love in return?


Nope. Not at all. In fact, I anticipated it would happen that way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

That seems like a recipe for disaster.



Why would it be?

Just that someone in love is in greater danger of emotional damage, especially from someone who doesn't love them back, even if it's not your intention to hurt her.


Greater emotional damage how?

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 1:57:57 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
I'm not arguing. ....
Google one sided love, and you won't find anything positive about it.


Google "married and fucking other people", I'm sure you'll be able to find at least a dozen links with nothing positive to say about that either.

And then you'll find the men and women who actually set out deliberately to create a dynamic like that with or for their spouses.

Then google "echo chamber".

I'm really not trying to argue about this. But I understand your knee jerk reaction to me since I've been largely antagonistic on here.


(in reply to Alecta)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 2:03:13 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


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Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Do you not feel the least bit uncomfortable knowing she's madly in love with you while neither of you share any love in return?


Nope. Not at all. In fact, I anticipated it would happen that way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

That seems like a recipe for disaster.



Why would it be?

Just that someone in love is in greater danger of emotional damage, especially from someone who doesn't love them back, even if it's not your intention to hurt her.


Greater emotional damage how?


I'm only looking at this from a personal perspective so I can't speak for you or your slave. I just know for me, being on either side of a one sided romantic relationship has been really difficult. But I also have a big sense of guilt when it comes to possibly taking unfair advantage of someone and I think knowing someone is in love with me but I don't return the feelings, it makes it easier to manipulate and use them and I don't like doing that. On the opposite hand, being in love with someone who doesn't love you back has been a horrible situation and triggered deep depression and even a suicide attempt in college. Like I said, it's personally never been advantageous for me to engage in a one sided romance. Things may be 100% wonderful for you and your slave. Does she know you two don't love her?

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 2:04:20 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Google one sided love, and you won't find anything positive about it.

https://www.rootreport.com/one-sided-love-quotes/


Okay, lets examine your link:

I’m not sure what scares me more, that you will never start loving me, or that I will never stop loving you.
This quote implies that the person doing the loving has needs that aren't being met by the relationship, and that because of the love, they keep hoping that they eventually will get met in the relationship, but is afraid that will never happen.
This doesn't apply to our slave, because all her needs -all the things she was looking for from the relationship- are being met. She doesn't feel unfulfilled, and isn't waiting for something to change to finally find fulfillment in the relationship.
In fact, she's sorta scared that if were would fall in love with her, that would change certain aspects of our relationship in such a way that it would leave her needs not fully being met (she specifically worries that us falling in love with her will start making her go 'soft' on her, lower our expectations, make us more lenient, and thu snot push her as hard anymore towards self-improvement anymore).

People will hold your hand though the darkness but then let go when they find the light.
This quote deals with somebody being with you when they are struggling with issues that causes them to need somebody to be there for them, but then once they have fixed those issues and are fine again, dumping you because they no longer need you.
This doesn't apply to our relationship, because none of the parties involved got into it to 'fix' issues they were having by relying on somebody else's support to get through them. We got into it because it enhances our -already happy- lives.

I love dreaming, because in my dreams, you’re actually mine.
This quote deals with somebody wanting something from somebody else, but not getting it, because the other person has no desire to be there for the person in love.
This doesn't apply to our relationship, because we are all in it because we have desires/needs that get met by the other people in the relationship, and we all want to be there for each other to meet the other's needs and desires.

It’s so hard to forget someone who gave you so much to remember.
This deals with a relationship which is over, where one person wishes it wasn't, while the other person no longer cares.
It doesn't apply to our relationship because it's not over. In addition to that, this exact same situation could occur in a relationship where both parties are initially in love with each other, but then one party falls out of love and moves on. Both being in love at the beginning does not prevent this situation from occurring, and actually in a sense makes it more likely, because if love is the reason to be together, then as soon as one party stops loving the other one, the person still in love is going to feel this way, because the person who is now out of love has no reason to stay. If there's reasons other than love to be in the relationship, it's less likely to end because of somebody falling out of love, because there's other reasons to stay together.

I tried to hate you but the only thing I hated is how much I loved you.
Same as above, aside from the fact that apparently the person who fell out of love ended up badly hurting the person still in love in a way that might be justification to cause hate.

At some point, you have to realize that he doesn’t care, and you could be missing out on someone who actually does.
This deals with a relationship where the person not in love doesn't care about the person in love, and is -presumably- using them for their own intentions without giving any thought or consideration about giving anything back to the person in love.
This doesn't apply to us, because while we're not in love with our slave, we very much do care about that, and it's important to us that her needs are fulfilled (and taken into account) as much as our own in the relationship.
Love is not needed to care about somebody. Nor is it needed to ensure that meeting everybody's needs is a goal of the relationship.

Loving someone who doesn’t love you in return… is like trying to fly with a broken wing.
Again, this assumes a relationship in which the person not in love doesn't care about meeting the needs of the person who is in love. It assumes that the person in love is not getting support in life to meet their goals, fulfill their needs, and live out their dreams in life, while they're constantly expected to fulfill these roles towards the person who's not in love.
This doesn't apply, because meeting our slave's needs, helping her to fulfill her goals and dreams is very much a focus of our relationship. It just doesn't require love.

He’s the one I love, but he keeps ignoring me.
Assumes the person not in love doesn't care about the person in love.
Doesn't apply, because we don't ignore her, and do care about her.

You don’t understand that the thought of you being with someone else hurts.
Assumes that the person not in love chose somebody else over/instead of the person in love.
Doesn't apply, because our slave is valued for who and what she is to us. She's not replaceable by somebody else, because nobody else is her. If we find another person who would add value to our relationship, that person might get added, but doing so wouldn't replace the value she has to us (poly makes this a lot easier).

Why do I feel so far away from you even though you are sitting right next to me?
Assumes the person not in love is not available for support, care, assistance, guidance, etc to the person in love.
Doesn't apply, see above.

I could keep going here, but I hope I've made my point. I read the entire list, and I didn't see a single quote listed that applies to our relationship.
If you see a specific one you are not sure about on how it doesn't apply, feel free to list it, and I'll explain about that specific one how it isn't applicable.

The problem with all of them basically is that they all assume a one-sided relationship where the person in love somehow isn't getting their needs met by being in the relationship. Considering that our relationship is based on a mutual meeting of needs, that base assumption is incorrect for us, and thus all conclusions drawn from it are also incorrect.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 11/20/2016 2:07:15 PM >


_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 2:11:19 PM   
Greatlilbabygirl


Posts: 786
Joined: 9/9/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl
I'm not arguing. ....
Google one sided love, and you won't find anything positive about it.


Google "married and fucking other people", I'm sure you'll be able to find at least a dozen links with nothing positive to say about that either.

And then you'll find the men and women who actually set out deliberately to create a dynamic like that with or for their spouses.

Then google "echo chamber".

And I don't think I'm being a complete asshole when I say unrequited love is USUALLY not a good thing

"One of the most heartbreaking things in the world is unrequited love. In fact, it might even be more painful than losing someone you love, because at least in those cases you had a chance to be loved in return at one point. You don’t know what it’s like to be loved by the person you care so much about, and depending on circumstances and timing, you likely never will. It’s a pain for which there isn’t a suitable word in the dictionary to describe, although “torture” comes pretty close."
http://www.thebolde.com/the-7-worst-parts-of-loving-someone-who-doesnt-love-you-back/

(in reply to Alecta)
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RE: Master's must master the whole slave? - 11/20/2016 2:12:52 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

I'm only looking at this from a personal perspective so I can't speak for you or your slave. I just know for me, being on either side of a one sided romantic relationship has been really difficult. But I also have a big sense of guilt when it comes to possibly taking unfair advantage of someone and I think knowing someone is in love with me but I don't return the feelings, it makes it easier to manipulate and use them and I don't like doing that. On the opposite hand, being in love with someone who doesn't love you back has been a horrible situation and triggered deep depression and even a suicide attempt in college. Like I said, it's personally never been advantageous for me to engage in a one sided romance. Things may be 100% wonderful for you and your slave.



What you're describing is the same thing as what I've addressed in the post above (which I was writing while you were writing this): it deals with a one-sided situation where one party's needs are met, and the other party's needs are not. As I described above, this doesn't apply to us, and so the things you're worried about don't apply.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greatlilbabygirl

Does she know you two don't love her?



Yup. In fact, it got discussed again just now specifically because of me mentioning replying to this thread. And she again expressed her concern that us starting to love her would change the relationship dynamic in such a way that the relationship would stop meeting her needs.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Greatlilbabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 20
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