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Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/5/2017 1:01:22 AM   
themysticsiren


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm new. My partner and I have started experimenting with bdsm. He isn't very good with sexual communication or communication in general, so I'm the one who opened up the conversation. Up until now we've been reading each other's body language and taking stabs in the dark, but I noticed a few things and it turns out he's dominant and I'm submissive. We've had a lot of fun with choking and breatheplay. He's given me some hard slaps with his hand, his belt, a paddle... I liked them all. I also like being restrained. I like when he grabs and holds me tight and doesn't let me move, he covers my mouth and doesn't let me scream. We've talked about possibly going to a sex club and trying out a few other things. Last time I was with him I suggested rapeplay. I tried out saying "stop" and fighting him off as part of a scene. We touched on the topic of pets and slaves, and we were both intrigued. He likes leaving his mark on me and our dirty talk has evolved to involve aspects of humiliation and possession. Which I'd like to add, I think that's hot, and I'm super into it. We have a safe word. I have enjoyed and consented to everything we've done. I make sure we communicate before and after each scene. He is always mindful of my body language and he's cautious of boundaries.

BUT something weird started happening. I have these disturbing desires that I can't suppress or explain.

I want him to drug me. I want him to fuck me without asking permission. I want him to choke me unconscious. I want him to brand me. I want him to use me selfishly. I want to be his possession.


I can't get these thoughts out of my mind and the whole dynamic somehow feels unhealthy

There's something about him that changes my brain chemistry. He knows how powerful his effect on me is. At a distance I know he isn't good for me, but just being in his presence I fall in love. I think about him all the time. And I'm concerned. Part of his job is to be manipulative (sales) but it feels like he's more experienced than he lets on. It feels like he's a master at collecting hearts, maybe even slaves. Is Stockholm syndrome too extreme to describe it? I feel brainwashed, compliant, drugged even. Could I have been? Theres that one time he made me tea and I slept for 12 hours. Now I'm just being silly. But these thoughts I'm having don't feel like my own. It feels like he put them there without even saying the words if that's possible.

To give some context, I'm 19 and he's 30. We work for the same company and he has a higher position than me in a different office. The start of our relationship involved a messy polyamorous situation where his girlfriend at the time (who is also 19 and works for the same company) was harassing me, being possessive over him and trying to manipulate her way into a monogamous relationship with him. As far as I understand, they broke up because she had a low libido and wouldn't let him fulfill his needs with someone else. But in the meantime while he sorted out things with her, he stopped talking to me for a couple months. We reconnected over coffee and now we are officially dating and she's out of the picture. But he can be emotionally distant, he plays games (intentionally tries to create jealousy, texts me less to make me want him more), he's argumentative and always has to win, when I express my feelings he implies that I'm paranoid, he's sometimes more than an hour late for a date, he separates me from his friends and social life.

AND YET he said he loves me, he tells me I'm the only one to cut through his BS and get him to open up, he says he has the best times with me that he would spend all and any time with me and that I'm the one person that makes him so happy.

All this being said, yes. I'm aware I should probably break up with him, but that's just it. I can't. I feel chained already. To me he's intoxicating, entrancing. I'm scared by my thoughts. I have no one to turn to for advice, no one in my friend circle is part of the bdsm community.


I guess what I need help with is the question. Am I being emotionally manipulated? Is he taking advantage of his power? Is this an unhealthy dynamic? Why am I having these disturbing desires? What do I do?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/5/2017 1:26:32 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Feeling drugged could be a side effect of subspace.
It is a result of changes in brain chemistry.

I don't know if you are being emotionally manipulated or if the dynamic is unhealthy.

The disturbing desires might be nothing more than dark fantasies.
There is nothing wrong with having dark fantasies.
But please keep in mind that quite often dark fantasies are better if they remain in that realm and acting on them can be disappointing or dangerous.

Having said that, if you think being with him is not good for you then perhaps you need to heed that inner voice and end things.

Also, a caution: there probably is no such thing as "safe" breathplay.
So many things can go wrong.
http://houseofgaspers.com/library/bc_jay.html


_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

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RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/5/2017 5:49:26 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Sound more like sub frenzy than anything else. It's not that far a step from humiliation play to objectification play. However, that's quite the age difference for someone your age. More to the point, he lacks communication skills. And worse, he believes in targeting barely legal coworkers. That, more than anything, shouts red flag to me.

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RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/6/2017 4:35:46 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5159
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		He is very good at communicating. He knows exactly what to say to you to keep you coming back to him no matter how he treats you. You just don't understand that you're being manipulated by a pro.

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Revise that number. Just got 14 new chicks and 5 turkeys.

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RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/6/2017 4:45:20 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline 		I'd say... enjoy it! You'll probably never find another dom that good and you'll spend your life looking for one if you leave him.

(in reply to peppermint)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/10/2017 5:17:12 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren

<snip>
I guess what I need help with is the question. Am I being emotionally manipulated? Is he taking advantage of his power? Is this an unhealthy dynamic? Why am I having these disturbing desires? What do I do?


Yes you are being emotionally manipulated, yes he is taking advantage of his power...

Is it unhealthy? For me yes, but only you can answer that question as it's your life...

Those desires, well, we all have desires we don't give in to, they remain fantasies for good reasons, some of us get them out through role play...

Not sure what you should do, it depends on what you want... Where do you see yourself realistically in a year, in 5 years? With 19 you have your life ahead of you, he might seem like everything you want now, will he be everything you want in a few years or might your desires and values change?

I think you both need to learn to communicate


_____________________________

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Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to themysticsiren)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/12/2017 5:21:43 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I know the thread is a week old and the OP hasn't come back but it's actually kind of interesting. Maybe she will later on. Who knows.

For some of this, I'm definitely voting sub frenzy. A lot of times, people's first jump into kink where the endorphins are flowing and all of the chemical effects that make us want to engage in BDSM are going on, it's really easy to get caught up in that. I'm not trying to be ageist. Same thing happens to people in their forties when they are getting into BDSM for the first time. There are tons of really good articles about space and frenzy. Reading up on them might be beneficial. Heck, some parts of frenzy can be fun, as long as you don't get carried away and do things to your detriment.

While I'm sure there will be some people who disagree with me, there are parts of the post that aren't terribly concerning. Your desires for rape play/intoxication play/resistance/lack of ability to resist type of thing isn't terribly abnormal. I don't have a link for it but there's one survey out there that was done a few years ago that said something like a full third of people who identify as submissive have fantasies about these types of things. Having such desires or fantasies is perfectly ok. Pretty common, actually. Whether it's a good idea for you to act out such fantasies with your partner is going to depend on a lot of factors. For some people, it's the most thrilling sexual thing they have ever done. For others, the whole thing turns out just awful. You definitely want to think this thing through. Maybe talk with other female submissives about their experiences with it. (Don't just listen to the "good" stories, either. You don't want rose colored glasses on the subject.)

Branding. You asked about this and I wanted to comment on it, specifically. Personally, I find branding to be a perfectly legitimate kink, the same as I do with artistic cuttings, scarification, or any other form of body mod. I would say you should consider viewing it the same way you would through the non-kink view. The first question you should be asking yourself is whether or not your partner is qualified to do it? There are classes out there in the kink world on branding of various types. Hot brands, cold brands, cell popping, electric, solar... The list goes on. The parallel here is, would you walk into a tattoo parlor and trust the person who has never done it before?

Speaking of tattoo parlors and taking the kink out of it, if this guy was your boyfriend, would you be walking in and getting a permanent mark? In my opinion, that's something you should think about.

Yes. A description of Stockholm syndrome is too dramatic for this situation. Unless I'm missing something, it's crap. There's not anything in your post that leads me to believe any of the elements of Stockholm syndrome apply here, rather than you doing a lot of thinking with your genitals. Which is fine. Just recognize it for what it is.

However, I do have a different term for you (and it was the only thing that troubled me by your post) and that term is "grooming". Two elements here. One, the guy has specifically sought out yourself and his ex with a ten year age difference. He also seems to seek out subordinates. With both of these, I'd be really uncomfortable if I were in your shoes. I'd be thinking about it.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/15/2017 12:13:32 PM   
themysticsiren


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for your input, it really helps to have an outside opinion. When all I hear are my own thoughts and his, it makes it difficult to have perspective. My other partner seems to think this one is very manipulative and abusive and he's seen him hurt girls before - and after a while apparently he starts to isolate them, gaslight, threaten and emotionally manipulate them. As a side note, I've now learned that he sexually abused his sister when he was younger :/ which somehow makes the rapeplay and his interest in incest all the more disturbing. I've had 2 weeks away from him now and I feel like I have a lot of clarity. But I'm going to see him this weekend and I know I'll be under his spell again. My other partner is worried for my safety and is trying to convince me to leave, saying that there's nothing my abuser offers me that I can't get from somewhere else - which makes sense in theory but in my mind he still puts his own special twist on everything and a voice in my head still keeps telling me I can't leave :/

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/15/2017 12:35:38 PM   
themysticsiren


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Sound more like sub frenzy than anything else. It's not that far a step from humiliation play to objectification play. However, that's quite the age difference for someone your age. More to the point, he lacks communication skills. And worse, he believes in targeting barely legal coworkers. That, more than anything, shouts red flag to me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Feeling drugged could be a side effect of subspace.
It is a result of changes in brain chemistry.

[...]

Also, a caution: there probably is no such thing as "safe" breathplay.
So many things can go wrong.
http://houseofgaspers.com/library/bc_jay.html



Subspace and sub frenzy sound a lot like what I’m feeling. Thank you DesFIP. And thanks angelikaJ for the link. Having a term to explain and describe it helps me feel less crazy. And I didn’t know that about breathplay, I’ll be careful


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Not sure what you should do, it depends on what you want... Where do you see yourself realistically in a year, in 5 years? With 19 you have your life ahead of you, he might seem like everything you want now, will he be everything you want in a few years or might your desires and values change?

I think you both need to learn to communicate



You're right, I think it's important to think about what I want for my future and it's also important to learn how to communicate. I tend to mirror my partner's communication skill level but I need to learn to speak out for myself, that's something I need to work on

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I know the thread is a week old and the OP hasn't come back but it's actually kind of interesting. Maybe she will later on. Who knows.

For some of this, I'm definitely voting sub frenzy.

[...]

Speaking of tattoo parlors and taking the kink out of it, if this guy was your boyfriend, would you be walking in and getting a permanent mark? In my opinion, that's something you should think about.

[...]

However, I do have a different term for you (and it was the only thing that troubled me by your post) and that term is "grooming". Two elements here. One, the guy has specifically sought out yourself and his ex with a ten year age difference. He also seems to seek out subordinates. With both of these, I'd be really uncomfortable if I were in your shoes. I'd be thinking about it.




Thanks for posting even though it’s an old thread. I’m still here.

In my current mind state I would get a tattoo of his name and it’s something I’ve been thinking about. I feel like the impact he’s had on me is ink worthy. Meanwhile I’m aware that it’s something I’d very likely regret. My feelings on it are conflicting and confusing.

DesFIP and LadyPact you mentioned the age difference and work dynamic red flags. Yes that concerns me too. Him and my other partner are work friends and he told me that when he talks about me he sees excitement in his eyes, he compared it to the excitement a hunter has for a deer.

Even now it seems like he’s going after his roommate who has an abusive ex. It seems like he picks easy prey. It seems like he follows the patterns of an abuser

(in reply to themysticsiren)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 2/15/2017 12:55:17 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren
....Even now it seems like he’s going after his roommate who has an abusive ex. It seems like he picks easy prey. It seems like he follows the patterns of an abuser

With all the other good advice given by others, this is the one that would scare me to hell and back.
IMHO, if you suspect the slightest hint that he's an abuser - RUN!! And don't look back.

There's quite a difference between someone you trust not to go beyond your red lines and someone who is an abuser and doesn't give a shit about your welfare.

To me, there are too many red flags with this one and I'd be gone in a flash.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/10/2017 8:30:38 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren
My other partner is worried for my safety and is trying to convince me to leave

You're 19. You have two partners? What does this mean? Who is the partner worried about your safety? A boyfriend? Or are they both FwBs?

(in reply to themysticsiren)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/10/2017 8:46:47 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren
My other partner is worried for my safety and is trying to convince me to leave

You're 19. You have two partners? What does this mean? Who is the partner worried about your safety? A boyfriend? Or are they both FwBs?



Have you been to the ER? Do you need to go to a domestic violence safe house because the situation is that bad? Has this person messed with you financially? Is this person stalking you in real life?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/11/2017 3:36:12 PM   
themysticsiren


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren
My other partner is worried for my safety and is trying to convince me to leave

You're 19. You have two partners? What does this mean? Who is the partner worried about your safety? A boyfriend? Or are they both FwBs?



The one in question is partner A. I've known him for almost a year now. Partner B is worried about my safety, I met him a few months ago. We all work at the same company, they were friends before I met them. They were both with me in the complete romantic sexual sense (not just FwBs)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Have you been to the ER? Do you need to go to a domestic violence safe house because the situation is that bad? Has this person messed with you financially? Is this person stalking you in real life?



No, and partner B is more concerned about A's emotional manipulation and mental/psychological effects. He's never been physically violent with me outside of consensual play. My concern is that I'm afraid he might not have empathy, I think every action he takes is calculated to further his own goals. He's capable of making people do things and making them think it was their idea. The level of love and hurt and obsession and jealousy he incites in all his partners of past and present seems unhealthy and intentional


As an update: I broke up with partner A, only to find myself back at his place a week later :/ He "concern handled" me and I want to believe everything he says but a big part of me is skeptical

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/11/2017 10:35:27 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren
No, and partner B is more concerned about A's emotional manipulation and mental/psychological effects. He's never been physically violent with me outside of consensual play. My concern is that I'm afraid he might not have empathy, I think every action he takes is calculated to further his own goals. He's capable of making people do things and making them think it was their idea. The level of love and hurt and obsession and jealousy he incites in all his partners of past and present seems unhealthy and intentional


As an update: I broke up with partner A, only to find myself back at his place a week later :/ He "concern handled" me and I want to believe everything he says but a big part of me is skeptical

In most cases, unless there is some kind of harm going on, partner B shouldn't be interfering with your relationship with partner A. If he's <cough> concerned <cough>, he should ask you ONCE if what you have with partner A is really what you want. If it is, that should be the end of it. You are a grown up and if you are going to have adult relationships, those decisions are yours.

If you are going to do stupid sh^t, that's on you.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to themysticsiren)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/12/2017 8:52:17 PM   
themysticsiren


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In most cases, unless there is some kind of harm going on, partner B shouldn't be interfering with your relationship with partner A. If he's <cough> concerned <cough>, he should ask you ONCE if what you have with partner A is really what you want. If it is, that should be the end of it. You are a grown up and if you are going to have adult relationships, those decisions are yours.

If you are going to do stupid sh^t, that's on you.




You're absolutely right. And this became an issue. Plot twist: partner B turned out to be pretty controlling and manipulative too, its almost as if he saw partner A as sort of a mentor? But A has now admitted that he may have been emotionally manipulative with me and he's getting counselling and doing lots of self reflection where as B can't see his own faults or won't admit to them :/

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/12/2017 8:55:55 PM   
themysticsiren


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


However, I do have a different term for you (and it was the only thing that troubled me by your post) and that term is "grooming". Two elements here. One, the guy has specifically sought out yourself and his ex with a ten year age difference. He also seems to seek out subordinates. With both of these, I'd be really uncomfortable if I were in your shoes. I'd be thinking about it.




Mmm, I did want to ask you about what you said here. What did you mean by grooming? and do you still think I should be concerned?

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/14/2017 8:24:54 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


However, I do have a different term for you (and it was the only thing that troubled me by your post) and that term is "grooming". Two elements here. One, the guy has specifically sought out yourself and his ex with a ten year age difference. He also seems to seek out subordinates. With both of these, I'd be really uncomfortable if I were in your shoes. I'd be thinking about it.




Mmm, I did want to ask you about what you said here. What did you mean by grooming? and do you still think I should be concerned?


I think you should be concerned because you are concerned.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to themysticsiren)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/14/2017 12:59:18 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: themysticsiren
You're absolutely right. And this became an issue. Plot twist: partner B turned out to be pretty controlling and manipulative too, its almost as if he saw partner A as sort of a mentor? But A has now admitted that he may have been emotionally manipulative with me and he's getting counselling and doing lots of self reflection where as B can't see his own faults or won't admit to them :/



quote:

Mmm, I did want to ask you about what you said here. What did you mean by grooming? and do you still think I should be concerned?

This thread took a really weird twist. I'm going to tell you right up front that I'm not comfortable with some of it. After this response, I probably won't be returning. I'm going to explain why.

I am all for people engaging in consensual kink. I don't care what people want to get up to in their own bedrooms as long as the participants are on board with the activities they want to engage in and it's not to the detriment of anyone. It's not your kinks/interests that are my problem with this thread.

Somehow, I didn't catch all of what you said on post #8 on this thread. You have content in it that is rather appalling. Even if this other stuff wasn't going on, I have to wonder why you would want somebody in your life who is doing/has done these kinds of things. As a generalization, PEOPLE WHO NEED THERAPY FOR THE ACTS THEY PERPETRATE AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE OR THE WAY THEY TREAT THEM IS SOMEBODY YOU STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM. Whether that's based on violating someone's consent sexually, they have abused them, they are unhealthy to the point they stalk, harass, or intimidate others, or whatever the case. You can't ask for bigger red flags than that. If the man you are seeing honestly needs a PROFESSIONAL because of HIS actions in past relationships, when this turns out bad, you are going to have to accept the responsibility because you KNEW what kind of person he was in choosing to stay.

Here is a page with a simple explanation about grooming. https://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/grooming.html I don't know if it's the best one but it should give you an idea.

You might also want to do some research on how you are choosing partners and *if* you are choosing healthy partners. Some folks here might have links on that.

With this, I'm out.








_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to themysticsiren)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/14/2017 2:19:43 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I missed that the first time also.
You know he committed criminal acts. You know he targets the youngest possible partners. What that says to me is that he has no remorse and seeks to replay his criminal actions but without risking jail time.

I suggest you find a new job and get away from both of them. If you were my daughter, I'd insist you quit immediately just to get you away from him.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Help! Disturbing Desires. Emotional Manipulation? - 3/14/2017 2:27:56 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline 		Some people like to play with fire until they get burnt. Others find they like the way being burnt feels.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 20
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