quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

Quite tamaka.

I think there are issues about people in positions of power taking advantage of that for their own sexual satisfaction, but I have to say that as a seventeen year old I would certainly have jumped to have sex with at least one of my female teachers, who was at that time in her forties. There was certainly flirtation and an offer to meet outside school which I turned down only because of what my parents might think. The thought that she might be exploiting me couldn't have been further from my mind. I had had a serious girlfriend for over two years who I slept with when I was fifteen so I saw nothing exploitative in sleeping with an older, wiser, sexy teacher.

As a teenager I also knew a number of fifteen to seventeen year old girls who only hung around with guys in their late twenties and thirties who had cars and they thought were far more exciting than boys their own age.

In the UK the age of consent is sixteen, also the age you can join the army and get married. In light of this I think that a teacher sleeping with a pupil above the age of consent should be a matter for the teacher's employers and not a matter for criminal law.

We too now have a law that makes it illegal for a teacher to have sex with a student under the age of eighteen. I have no problem with a teacher who does it being sacked but being prosecuted and then placed on the sex offenders register is disproportionate. It would be a different matter if that person was under the age of consent or particularly vulnerable (e.g. they had a learning disability) but there are separate laws to prevent that kind of behaviour.

Every potentially morally dubious act does not have to be dealt with by criminal law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

From my experience, it is not the teachers who are coercing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

The teacher referred to in the OP should have gotten a hell of a lot more than probation. She deserves prison time. Period.

And for those of you who say that it is okay for teachers and students to date as long as they are not a student in that teacher's class, here's a newsflash for you. As a veteran teacher of more than 20 years, I can tell you of a hundred little ways that I am still an authority figure over a student in a school even if he is not actually enrolled in one of my classes.

Is he up for selection in an honor society that I am on the faculty panel for, meaning I get to choose whether he gets in or not, which could also later affect college admissions?

Is he being considered for any number of community scholarships that are chosen by teacher panels, one of which I may be on?

Am I the science dept chair, and is he having trouble in science class and needs a passing grade, so I, as his girlfriend. go to my subordinate, his science teacher, and exert a little "influence"?

Am I a sponsor of any number of extracurricular activities that the student participates in, where other students may cite favoritism or try to take advantage of their relationship with the student?

I could go on all day long about the ways that teachers affect things outside of the classroom. We can control a hell of a lot more than just a gradebook.

How about when the teacher discusses her sex life with her close friends, who happen to be fellow teachers, or the student discusses his sex life with his close friends, who are other students. What's that going to mean for the environment surrounding that teacher? How is that teacher going to effectively be an authority figure for anyone when details of their sex life is shared among students?

And what about if they get in a fight or break up? And hard feelings are involved? What about all the different ways that students can take advantage of that situation because of what they know about the intimate details of the teacher's personal life?

And the myriad ways that an emotionally hurt teacher can hurt a student or their student record?

There are boundaries drawn between students and adults in schools, and they are there for good reasons. Without them, the educational learning environment can easily be destroyed. Students and teachers become vulnerable to the whims of love/hate/jealousy and the agendas of others.

Not to mention the fact that teachers spend years studying adolescent developmental stages and know full damn well that the kids they are working with may be physically ready for all kinds of things, but they are not emotionally ready. Kids want to experiment? Fine, let them. There are scores of other teenagers at the same stage in life they are, ready for the same things they are, right there in the same building. The adults should keep their damn hands off of them.

Any teacher, who has had the proper training and understands adolescent developmental stages, and still sees no problem in messing around with students, has something wrong with their own mental development, if you ask me.

quote:


I have no quarrel with most of what you say, W5.

But jail time? Not sure.

This woman by her own stupidity has thrown her life into the toilet. Forever on the sex offender list and forever having to answer "yes" on job applications to: Have you ever been arrested for a felony? A life time of punishment.

quote:

It was a bizarre and emotional courtroom scene, but one occurring with disturbing frequency these days. A popular middle school teacher, 43-year-old Pamela Diehl-Moore, had tearfully pleaded guilty to having sex with a child – a 13-year-old male student who had just completed 7th grade – and now stood before a Hackensack, N.J., judge awaiting sentencing.

And what would that sentence be? Considering all the intense media coverage of male sexual predators victimizing female children, one might expect a stiff prison term, accompanied by a withering rebuke.

But when New Jersey Superior Court Judge Bruce A. Gaeta opened his mouth, the words that came out did not express criticism of the teacher, nor acknowledge any damage she had done to her victim.

“I really don’t see the harm that was done here,” the judge proclaimed, “and certainly society doesn’t need to be worried. I do not believe she is a sexual predator. It’s just something between two people that clicked beyond the teacher-student relationship.”…

According to court transcripts, Gaeta summed up his shocking judicial leniency this way: “I don’t see anything here that shows this young man has been psychologically damaged by her actions. And don’t forget, this was mutual consent. Now certainly under the law, he is too young to legally consent, but that’s what the law says. Some of the legislators should remember when they were that age. Maybe these ages have to be changed a little bit.”…

In yet another recent court case, U.S. District Judge J. Thomas Marten in Kansas also questioned whether sex with kids was really bad.

“Where is the clear, credible evidence that underage sex is always injurious? If you tell me because it is illegal, I reject that,” Marten said, according to the Associated Press.

Although most judges don’t publicly sing the praises of statutory rape like these two – indeed, Judge Gaeta later came under the scrutiny of a judicial fitness review board – many regular Americans apparently agree with them. A lot of us just don’t seem to think there’s much of a problem when female teachers have sex with their male students.

“What is the deal lately with hot female teachers seducing their 13- to 16-year-old students?!” asked one blogger expressing the prevalent “what’s-the-problem?” attitude: “I think the woman is getting off on the social taboo factor more than anything else. At least, that’s what the expert psychologists say. I just wish I had a teacher stupid enough and bored enough in my grade school to make my pubescent dreams come true. If it wasn’t illegal and there were no jilted husbands, it’s almost a victimless crime.”

And Bob Shoop, a Kansas State University education professor and expert witness in 30 court cases involving sexual abuse in schools, summed it up for the Associated Press this way: “I think our society sort of says to the boy: ‘Congratulations, that’s great. Everybody fantasizes about having a sexual relationship with an older woman.'”…

Recently, there has been a seeming explosion in a special type of teacher sexual abuse – female teachers having sex with underage teenage boys, who as a rule are willing participants in the sex.

“Generally the male doesn’t feel victimized,” said Steven B. Blum, a consulting psychologist to a sex offender program in Nebraska. “A lot of teenage boys would see that as their lucky day,” he told the Los Angeles Times.

Essentially, the rationale is: Consensual sex doesn’t kill, injure or rob anyone, so where’s the victim? Why is “love” (remember Letourneau’s book, “Only One Crime, Love”) even a crime at all?

quote:

The girl liked her teacher from the moment she stepped into his remedial class. When he treated all his students to chocolate bars one day, her affection for him, for his genial ways and hard muscles, flared into desire. When he offered extra credit to anyone who helped him mark papers, she jumped at the chance. She flirted and flirted. Then one day he made a move.

"We were looking at each other in the elevator from the basement to the third floor, and it goes really slow," she said. "And we just kissed right there. When you're a sophomore and you're with a teacher, your head goes crazy. I was in ecstasy." …

"Sex between teachers and students is much more common than people are willing to acknowledge," said Charol Shakeshaft, a Hofstra University professor…

The most striking statistics come from a 1991 survey of students at a North Carolina high school, published in The Journal of Education Research, in which 13 percent of graduates said they had had sex with a teacher.

That 13 percent may be exaggerated, Ms. Shakeshaft said, but she said that students tended to be more accurate reporters of sexual contact than are teachers or principals, who often try to cover up the incidents…

Cases like Christina's and the Richmond Hill student's fall into the category of what Ms. Shakeshaft's study called "bad judgment romance," in which young male teachers become intimate with attractive older female students…

"These abusers saw their actions as either harmless or romantic," the report said…

But at the same time, said Alvin Cooper, clinical director of the San Jose Marital and Sexuality Center, "The older man falls victim to Calvin Klein commercials with 14- or 15-year-old girls. The media make for a lot of sexual acting out in our society."…

Ms. Shakeshaft's study found that the teachers most likely to fall into sexual relationships with their students were those who spent time with them individually or after school: coaches, counselors and teachers of drama, art, music and gym...

In Christina's case, at least, her teacher, Glenn Harris, was apparently not playing with her. He ruined his career, spent all his money and tried to marry her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

"What's behind today's epidemic of teacher-student sex?"

(from ten years ago, and heavily edited)

quote:

It was a bizarre and emotional courtroom scene, but one occurring with disturbing frequency these days. A popular middle school teacher, 43-year-old Pamela Diehl-Moore, had tearfully pleaded guilty to having sex with a child – a 13-year-old male student who had just completed 7th grade – and now stood before a Hackensack, N.J., judge awaiting sentencing.

And what would that sentence be? Considering all the intense media coverage of male sexual predators victimizing female children, one might expect a stiff prison term, accompanied by a withering rebuke.

But when New Jersey Superior Court Judge Bruce A. Gaeta opened his mouth, the words that came out did not express criticism of the teacher, nor acknowledge any damage she had done to her victim.

“I really don’t see the harm that was done here,” the judge proclaimed, “and certainly society doesn’t need to be worried. I do not believe she is a sexual predator. It’s just something between two people that clicked beyond the teacher-student relationship.”…

According to court transcripts, Gaeta summed up his shocking judicial leniency this way: “I don’t see anything here that shows this young man has been psychologically damaged by her actions. And don’t forget, this was mutual consent. Now certainly under the law, he is too young to legally consent, but that’s what the law says. Some of the legislators should remember when they were that age. Maybe these ages have to be changed a little bit.”…

In yet another recent court case, U.S. District Judge J. Thomas Marten in Kansas also questioned whether sex with kids was really bad.

“Where is the clear, credible evidence that underage sex is always injurious? If you tell me because it is illegal, I reject that,” Marten said, according to the Associated Press.

Although most judges don’t publicly sing the praises of statutory rape like these two – indeed, Judge Gaeta later came under the scrutiny of a judicial fitness review board – many regular Americans apparently agree with them. A lot of us just don’t seem to think there’s much of a problem when female teachers have sex with their male students.

“What is the deal lately with hot female teachers seducing their 13- to 16-year-old students?!” asked one blogger expressing the prevalent “what’s-the-problem?” attitude: “I think the woman is getting off on the social taboo factor more than anything else. At least, that’s what the expert psychologists say. I just wish I had a teacher stupid enough and bored enough in my grade school to make my pubescent dreams come true. If it wasn’t illegal and there were no jilted husbands, it’s almost a victimless crime.”

And Bob Shoop, a Kansas State University education professor and expert witness in 30 court cases involving sexual abuse in schools, summed it up for the Associated Press this way: “I think our society sort of says to the boy: ‘Congratulations, that’s great. Everybody fantasizes about having a sexual relationship with an older woman.'”…

Recently, there has been a seeming explosion in a special type of teacher sexual abuse – female teachers having sex with underage teenage boys, who as a rule are willing participants in the sex.

“Generally the male doesn’t feel victimized,” said Steven B. Blum, a consulting psychologist to a sex offender program in Nebraska. “A lot of teenage boys would see that as their lucky day,” he told the Los Angeles Times.

Essentially, the rationale is: Consensual sex doesn’t kill, injure or rob anyone, so where’s the victim? Why is “love” (remember Letourneau’s book, “Only One Crime, Love”) even a crime at all?

http://www.wnd.com/2006/03/35370/

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

im not trying to "convince" you of anything. im simply sharing information germane to the topic.

quote:


I can say this however, people of all ages are not immune to risks inherent in ANY intimate relationship.

quote:

and sorry--I don't see one "town hall" article in what ive posted. and even if they were, so what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

In days of olde I think as small percentage of men teachers and priest use to just fiddle with the kiddies…the women teachers dunno. But the point being it has went on since the beginning of time. Only in the last decade or so those thousands upon thousands be it at schools, homes, clergy have come forward. I am actually numb to al the stories

Vincent – I get you I tend to stay away from that argument. I will however argue if you are olde enough to die for your country then you are olde enough to drink and have sex and vote…now across the UK-which is 4 nations, this is 18 to vote, 16 to join the army, and 18 to have delicious booze….exception in the Scottish election anyone at 16 can vote.

Grooming is something different..actually some of the American stories are filtering across the the BBC website but they are all of the nature women has relationship with students.

I dont doubt for one iota the men would be hammered, imprisoned, sentenced far more severely and that is patently wrong/unfair.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

The teacher referred to in the OP should have gotten a hell of a lot more than probation. She deserves prison time. Period.

And for those of you who say that it is okay for teachers and students to date as long as they are not a student in that teacher's class, here's a newsflash for you. As a veteran teacher of more than 20 years, I can tell you of a hundred little ways that I am still an authority figure over a student in a school even if he is not actually enrolled in one of my classes.

Is he up for selection in an honor society that I am on the faculty panel for, meaning I get to choose whether he gets in or not, which could also later affect college admissions?

Is he being considered for any number of community scholarships that are chosen by teacher panels, one of which I may be on?

Am I the science dept chair, and is he having trouble in science class and needs a passing grade, so I, as his girlfriend. go to my subordinate, his science teacher, and exert a little "influence"?

Am I a sponsor of any number of extracurricular activities that the student participates in, where other students may cite favoritism or try to take advantage of their relationship with the student?

I could go on all day long about the ways that teachers affect things outside of the classroom. We can control a hell of a lot more than just a gradebook.

How about when the teacher discusses her sex life with her close friends, who happen to be fellow teachers, or the student discusses his sex life with his close friends, who are other students. What's that going to mean for the environment surrounding that teacher? How is that teacher going to effectively be an authority figure for anyone when details of their sex life is shared among students?

And what about if they get in a fight or break up? And hard feelings are involved? What about all the different ways that students can take advantage of that situation because of what they know about the intimate details of the teacher's personal life?

And the myriad ways that an emotionally hurt teacher can hurt a student or their student record?

There are boundaries drawn between students and adults in schools, and they are there for good reasons. Without them, the educational learning environment can easily be destroyed. Students and teachers become vulnerable to the whims of love/hate/jealousy and the agendas of others.

Not to mention the fact that teachers spend years studying adolescent developmental stages and know full damn well that the kids they are working with may be physically ready for all kinds of things, but they are not emotionally ready. Kids want to experiment? Fine, let them. There are scores of other teenagers at the same stage in life they are, ready for the same things they are, right there in the same building. The adults should keep their damn hands off of them.

Any teacher, who has had the proper training and understands adolescent developmental stages, and still sees no problem in messing around with students, has something wrong with their own mental development, if you ask me.

I have no quarrel with most of what you say, W5.

But jail time? Not sure.

This woman by her own stupidity has thrown her life into the toilet. Forever on the sex offender list and forever having to answer "yes" on job applications to: Have you ever been arrested for a felony? A life time of punishment.