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Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/15/2017 6:55:39 PM   
DaddySatyr


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I'd like to tell you all a story. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a happy ending.

A teacher, in Texas, had a purely coincidental meeting with a student and the student's family at a religious gathering (I'm not quite sure if it was a Sunday service or a "retreat" or what).

The teacher befriended the student's family and was invited to join the family on a trip to Africa.

While in Africa, the relationship between teacher and seventeen-year-old student turned physical.

The student later told investigators that sex occurred "about ten times" in the ensuing weeks.

The teacher could not be charged with rape because the student was the legal age of consent (17) in Texas. The teacher was charged with "Improper Relationship with a Student"

Before the charges, and while sleeping with the first student, the teacher proceeded to victimize another seventeen-year-old and, when the first student found out, the student ended the relationship and informed their parents.

That's two counts of "Improper ..."

The teacher plead "Guilty" and gave up their teaching certificate (before the "Guilty" plea).

The teacher was sentenced to ten years probation! Fucking Probation!!!

Oh, wait! The teacher was female and the students were male. So, no harm ... I guess.



Michael


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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/15/2017 7:13:08 PM   
stef


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Improper relationship with a student is a second-degree felony. In Texas, a second-degree felony charge carries a 2 to 10 year prison sentence. Since she was pleading guilty to two counts of this, yeah, that's fucked up. They should've thrown the book at this fake christian.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/15/2017 7:33:18 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'd like to tell you all a story. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a happy ending.

A teacher, in Texas, had a purely coincidental meeting with a student and the student's family at a religious gathering (I'm not quite sure if it was a Sunday service or a "retreat" or what).

The teacher befriended the student's family and was invited to join the family on a trip to Africa.

While in Africa, the relationship between teacher and seventeen-year-old student turned physical.

The student later told investigators that sex occurred "about ten times" in the ensuing weeks.

The teacher could not be charged with rape because the student was the legal age of consent (17) in Texas. The teacher was charged with "Improper Relationship with a Student"

Before the charges, and while sleeping with the first student, the teacher proceeded to victimize another seventeen-year-old and, when the first student found out, the student ended the relationship and informed their parents.

That's two counts of "Improper ..."

The teacher plead "Guilty" and gave up their teaching certificate (before the "Guilty" plea).

The teacher was sentenced to ten years probation! Fucking Probation!!!

Oh, wait! The teacher was female and the students were male. So, no harm ... I guess.



Michael



Actually, when it comes to cases of women teachers and students, this lady got the book thrown at her.

I do wonder if the teacher was the students' teacher or was just a "teacher."

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/15/2017 7:46:11 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'd like to tell you all a story. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a happy ending.

I have a story with a happy ending.
Lee bacca ex sheriff of los angeles county was convicted today by a jury of his peers on all three federal felony counts.


http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-92781873/

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/15/2017 11:20:50 PM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Actually, when it comes to cases of women teachers and students, this lady got the book thrown at her.

I do wonder if the teacher was the students' teacher or was just a "teacher."



I know the way the laws are written in some states, it doesn't matter. Those states include the words: " ... or any 'authority figure'." which covers a lot of territory and leaves the definition open to interpretation. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but for example: When I was growing up, we were taught that any adult was an "authority figure". Maybe not the wisest way and that would make those states' laws VERY far-reaching.

When I was raising my children, I told them that any adult that had been invited to our house was an authority figure. That cuts down the potential scumbags quite a bit, but it does rely on my ability to be able to "sniff out" the scumbags and not invite them to my house.

I am on record, all over the place that anyone that messes with a child should be dealt with in the harshest way possible, but then, I'm reminded of the few young ladies I knew when I was growing up that were 15 or 16 and had no interest in "High school boys". I'm not just talking about college-aged men. I knew a couple that were screwing their friends' fathers.

By today's standards (of age restriction), 16 would be legal in quite a few states and there is no doubt that some young ladies are quite ... advanced for their age and will go on the prowl for older men.

All that said, as far as I am concerned, if the victims went to the school where this particular huntress taught, the "authority figure" standard applies.



Michael


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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 12:58:15 AM   
jlf1961


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First of all, in a criminal act such as this, I fail to see the logic in having probation as one of the sentencing options at all.

Second, I have a major problem with "age of consent" laws in every respect, since they are not set up in any way to protect any person with any kind of mental impairment that would protect such individuals.

Third, on the point of religious affiliation, this 'Christian' did harm, at least emotionally, to the young men in question, bringing up the specter of the argument that those of the Christian faith do no grievous harm to anyone with justification.

I would direct anyone who has read about this particular case to look at the activities of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, all 'good' Christians who practiced the fine Christian ideal of marrying under age girls to older men.

Now, back on the subject of age of consent laws.

In some states, the age of consent is as low as fourteen, which, admittedly goes back to the historic fact that in past centuries, children were often married by that age.

But when you look at the age of consent for sex, and compare it to the reasons the legal drinking age is 21 nationwide, you have to ask "If an 18 year old is not sufficiently mature enough to legally drink at 18, how then is a child up to four years younger sufficiently mature enough to make a decision about sex?"

That also raises yet another question on the legal drinking age, that being, "If an 18 year old is mature enough to make the decision to enlist in the military at 18, why then is the same individual not allowed to buy alcohol?"

There are many problems with the age limitations and the right of 'adult consent' that I see with many of these issues. And the rather broad and ambiguous term 'sufficiently mature' in every one of the laws.

When you think about it, 18 is old enough to get married, have sex and to kill and die for his/her country, but they are not sufficiently mature enough to buy a beer.

Everyone of those decisions require some mature thought.

And while I have met some very mature acting teenagers, I can honestly say that for the most part, even 21 may be too young for almost all of the 'adult' decisions made by most of these kids.

As far as 'Christians' go, while the major news has been priests in the Catholic church, I would point out that 'youth ministers' (ordained ministers in charge of church youth programs) have abused many using their position.



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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 1:19:42 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

First of all, in a criminal act such as this, I fail to see the logic in having probation as one of the sentencing options at all.



Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Second, I have a major problem with "age of consent" laws in every respect, since they are not set up in any way to protect any person with any kind of mental impairment that would protect such individuals.



Not exactly correct. Most states have consent laws based entirely on the special conditions of mental impairment (being drunk, springs to mind).

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Third, on the point of religious affiliation, this 'Christian' did harm, at least emotionally, to the young men in question, bringing up the specter of the argument that those of the Christian faith do no grievous harm to anyone with justification.



Maybe you worded this one wrong? I've read it four times and am not quite following.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I would direct anyone who has read about this particular case to look at the activities of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, all 'good' Christians who practiced the fine Christian ideal of marrying under age girls to older men.



Don't worry. Government has crept far enough into religion where if these people get caught, they pay the piper. Also, most older male members in the LDS are "Elders" which is a title which would invoke that "authority figure" stuff I mentioned, earlier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Now, back on the subject of age of consent laws.

In some states, the age of consent is as low as fourteen, which, admittedly goes back to the historic fact that in past centuries, children were often married by that age.

But when you look at the age of consent for sex, and compare it to the reasons the legal drinking age is 21 nationwide, you have to ask "If an 18 year old is not sufficiently mature enough to legally drink at 18, how then is a child up to four years younger sufficiently mature enough to make a decision about sex?"

That also raises yet another question on the legal drinking age, that being, "If an 18 year old is mature enough to make the decision to enlist in the military at 18, why then is the same individual not allowed to buy alcohol?"

There are many problems with the age limitations and the right of 'adult consent' that I see with many of these issues. And the rather broad and ambiguous term 'sufficiently mature' in every one of the laws.

When you think about it, 18 is old enough to get married, have sex and to kill and die for his/her country, but they are not sufficiently mature enough to buy a beer.

Everyone of those decisions require some mature thought.

And while I have met some very mature acting teenagers, I can honestly say that for the most part, even 21 may be too young for almost all of the 'adult' decisions made by most of these kids.



I have made the similar case on several threads and, actually been ridiculed for it (true story).

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

As far as 'Christians' go, while the major news has been priests in the Catholic church, I would point out that 'youth ministers' (ordained ministers in charge of church youth programs) have abused many using their position.



I have not looked deeply enough into this to either agree or disagree other than to fall back on that old saw about "a few rotten apples in every bunch", but certain "groups" do seem to attract people that are afflicted with certain types of anti-social behavior.

Look up Franciscan Monks/Priests. My guess is you'll find some eye-opening shit.



Michael


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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 4:20:14 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Third, on the point of religious affiliation, this 'Christian' did harm, at least emotionally, to the young men in question, bringing up the specter of the argument that those of the Christian faith do no grievous harm to anyone with justification.



Maybe you worded this one wrong? I've read it four times and am not quite following.

Michael[/color]


he's saying that since harm was committed and the teacher was (apparently) Christian, therefore its justifiable to raise and use the argument of "Christians do harm."

it continues to boggle my mind that people either cannot realize that despite Christianity, people are fallible, or that theres a huge difference between people who do wrong IN SPITE of their faith as opposed to people who do wrong BECAUSE of it.

in this particular case---and this is going to be controversial I know---id debate over if any harm was done, and whats more, im at the very least siding with what aylee might be hinting at, the distinction between "his teacher" and "a teacher." but even that goes out the window if their mutual time in the classroom was over.

and even apart from that ive got some issues with laws, as opposed to say school policies, that interfere with peoples' free will in instances like this.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 3/16/2017 4:25:36 AM >

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 4:55:35 AM   
bounty44


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some other things that popped into my head and they are sounding familiar so we might have talked about them here before. the differences in response due to gender...

im thinking of the boys' fathers and wondering if they find themselves, at least partially going, "way to go son!"

all the while being pretty confident that sentiment wouldn't be on the radar screen even if we were talking about their daughters.

I don't view those things as double standards in an automatically negative way.

to what extent I wonder, is the law a reflection of those differing mores?

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 7:07:44 AM   
bondageerone


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dear daddysatyr..as a real life lesbian , all I will I say is LUCKY "TEACHER" XXX

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 7:16:19 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Third, on the point of religious affiliation, this 'Christian' did harm, at least emotionally, to the young men in question, bringing up the specter of the argument that those of the Christian faith do no grievous harm to anyone with justification.



Maybe you worded this one wrong? I've read it four times and am not quite following.

Michael[/color]


he's saying that since harm was committed and the teacher was (apparently) Christian, therefore its justifiable to raise and use the argument of "Christians do harm."

it continues to boggle my mind that people either cannot realize that despite Christianity, people are fallible, or that theres a huge difference between people who do wrong IN SPITE of their faith as opposed to people who do wrong BECAUSE of it.

in this particular case---and this is going to be controversial I know---id debate over if any harm was done, and whats more, im at the very least siding with what aylee might be hinting at, the distinction between "his teacher" and "a teacher." but even that goes out the window if their mutual time in the classroom was over.

and even apart from that ive got some issues with laws, as opposed to say school policies, that interfere with peoples' free will in instances like this.


jlf is a simple minded troll who cannot see beyond his nose.

Muslims are commanded to do harm, that is their law and that is what their book and their teachings demand

Despite the law and the book and the teachings some Muslims do good

Christians are exactly the opposite

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 7:34:05 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Third, on the point of religious affiliation, this 'Christian' did harm, at least emotionally, to the young men in question, bringing up the specter of the argument that those of the Christian faith do no grievous harm to anyone with justification.



Maybe you worded this one wrong? I've read it four times and am not quite following.

Michael[/color]


he's saying that since harm was committed and the teacher was (apparently) Christian, therefore its justifiable to raise and use the argument of "Christians do harm."

it continues to boggle my mind that people either cannot realize that despite Christianity, people are fallible, or that theres a huge difference between people who do wrong IN SPITE of their faith as opposed to people who do wrong BECAUSE of it.

in this particular case---and this is going to be controversial I know---id debate over if any harm was done, and whats more, im at the very least siding with what aylee might be hinting at, the distinction between "his teacher" and "a teacher." but even that goes out the window if their mutual time in the classroom was over.

and even apart from that ive got some issues with laws, as opposed to say school policies, that interfere with peoples' free will in instances like this.


I am just not so sure that it is equal treatment under the law to tell a 17 year old, "Yes, you are old enough to consent to sex, but not if that person is in one of these professions."

Or to tell a teacher, "You can have sex, but the person consenting must be at least the age of consent plus N number of years."

I do understand the need for, "You may not have sex with YOUR students," because many colleges have this rule. But their should be a way to deal with that if a romantic relationship arises in another country. A way to regularize it. Colleges do this as well. And we are talking about a student that will soon be college ready. Of course, self-control is good as well, and waiting until the student graduates.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 8:11:50 AM   
bounty44


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im in agreement with most of what you said aylee.

to reiterate some--I see a difference between a particular institution having a policy as compared to a state making things the law.

but even then...I balk a little bit at the "nanny" position involved. the presence of an "authority" certainly muddies the waters but for an institution to step in and put the kibosh on things because of that, is to suggest that people cannot navigate those waters, or that they should not even be given the opportunity to.

there are bunches of examples where teacher/student and more prominently, coach/athlete relationships blossomed into lifetime successful ones yet one can wonder how many were "nipped in the bud" due to ethics policies that forbid it, or for fear of institutional punishment.

theres an interesting tension that exists between the default position of that we are human beings first and foremost compared to we are human beings whose choices must be restricted by the circumstances in which we find ourselves.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 8:28:07 AM   
mnottertail


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he's saying that since harm was committed and the teacher was (apparently) Christian, therefore its justifiable to raise and use the argument of "Christians do harm."

it continues to boggle my mind that people either cannot realize that despite Christianity, people are fallible, or that theres a huge difference between people who do wrong IN SPITE of their faith as opposed to people who do wrong BECAUSE of it.

Go tell it to the muslims.

we shall hear no more since the terrorist was apparently xtian, therefore it is justifiable to raise and use the argument of xtians do harm.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 9:26:55 AM   
kdsub


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Doesn't anyone wonder at the motivation of the parents that invite a stranger to Africa with them and their child? It seems a bit strange to me.

Butch

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 10:25:31 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Doesn't anyone wonder at the motivation of the parents that invite a stranger to Africa with them and their child? It seems a bit strange to me.

Butch



I took it as their church or whatever had a ministry trip and both the student's family went and the teacher.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 11:54:22 AM   
tamaka


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My good friend was in a relationship with one of her high school teachers her senior year. He was 20 years older than her. They have been happily married now for 25 years or so.

My ex sister-in-law got pregnant by some kid in her class when she was 16. One of her teachers married her, adopted the kid, and they had 3 more children of their own.


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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 11:56:03 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


jlf is a simple minded troll who cannot see beyond his nose.

Muslims are commanded to do harm, that is their law and that is what their book and their teachings demand

Despite the law and the book and the teachings some Muslims do good

Christians are exactly the opposite



And you are a xenophobic moron with delusions of grandeur, who has never studied shit about what he condemns and takes the words of those with an agenda to prove.

You are close minded to the point of ignorance and regardless of your protestations to the contrary as well as claims to follow the true path of whatever warped beliefs and teachings you think are the absolute, fail in all aspects except in your promotion of hatred and intolerance.

To prove your flawed points you take scripture out of context, flood threads with quotes of revisionist historic accounts rewritten to promote an agenda of hate.

I have yet to see a single post condemning the acts of Christians against others of differing faiths, including the vandalizing of cemeteries and graves of non Christians which has happened quite frequently in recent months.

You preach rhetoric without actually going out and picking up the actual text to which you claim knowledge, instead promoting the talking points of those people who have made media careers out of condemning others.

You have no grasp of political science or theory, nor of actual historic fact, instead you repeat the very xenophobic crap of anyone that has access to a camera or the ability to promote widespread hatred and bigotry.

You hide behind a keyboard and an anonymous avatar because you are weak and pathetic.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 11:58:15 AM   
tamaka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Doesn't anyone wonder at the motivation of the parents that invite a stranger to Africa with them and their child? It seems a bit strange to me.

Butch


Exactly. My best friend my Sr. year of high school was one of my teachers who was 10 years older than me. Once a person is 17 years old, they are able to enter into relationships like that. Some people relate better with people who are older and wiser... i guess you call us 'old souls'. When i was 18, i was in a relationship with a man who was 32. My Master now is 12 years older than me.

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RE: Disgusting Example Of Jurisprudence - 3/16/2017 1:33:14 PM   
longwayhome


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Quite tamaka.

I think there are issues about people in positions of power taking advantage of that for their own sexual satisfaction, but I have to say that as a seventeen year old I would certainly have jumped to have sex with at least one of my female teachers, who was at that time in her forties. There was certainly flirtation and an offer to meet outside school which I turned down only because of what my parents might think. The thought that she might be exploiting me couldn't have been further from my mind. I had had a serious girlfriend for over two years who I slept with when I was fifteen so I saw nothing exploitative in sleeping with an older, wiser, sexy teacher.

As a teenager I also knew a number of fifteen to seventeen year old girls who only hung around with guys in their late twenties and thirties who had cars and they thought were far more exciting than boys their own age.

In the UK the age of consent is sixteen, also the age you can join the army and get married. In light of this I think that a teacher sleeping with a pupil above the age of consent should be a matter for the teacher's employers and not a matter for criminal law.

We too now have a law that makes it illegal for a teacher to have sex with a student under the age of eighteen. I have no problem with a teacher who does it being sacked but being prosecuted and then placed on the sex offenders register is disproportionate. It would be a different matter if that person was under the age of consent or particularly vulnerable (e.g. they had a learning disability) but there are separate laws to prevent that kind of behaviour.

Every potentially morally dubious act does not have to be dealt with by criminal law.

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