quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

My takeaway from this thread is that CM labels may not be the best tool for plumbing the complexities of gender identity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I confess, I’m a little confused by the ‘Trans’ sexual ‘Orientation’ descriptions over on the CollarSpace side. I see profiles say they are a straight trans and it sorta' makes me wonder . . .

Does a “straight” male "trans" sleep with boys because he identifies as a girl and straight girls sleep with boys? . . . or does he sleep with girls because he was born a boy and straight boys sleep with girls?

If a straight male trans is sleeping with girls, doesn't that actually make him a lesbian trans . . . which is gay not straight?

Does a “gay” male trans sleep with girls because he identifies as a girl and gay girls sleep with girls?

Is everyone just a lesbian trans to CollarSpace from one perspective or another or what?

Does the sexual "orientation" (preference) associate to the alt gender identity or the birth gender?

I'm going to catch flak for this I'm sure. Between LGBT, binary, non binary, pronouns, gender fluid, gender non-conforming, asexual, cisgender, gender dysphoria ... Who the fuck knows what gender identity is what? People of diverse gender have subdivided themselves into a ridiculous amount of categories and I've grown apathetic. I'm supportive but Jesus .... Let the hate mail begin.

quote:

Hell, even the term LGBT is a political move. It just used to be called the gay community. Pretty soon metrosexuals, hetroflexibles and androgynous are gonna want their initials in the acronym too. It's gonna be the LGBTMHA community eventually.

"I fear one day we will be marching in the Gay and Lesbian and S/M and Cross-Dressers and Bisexual and Homosexual and Homophile and Just Plain Queer Parade. This is unwieldy and will look cramped on a button."

T.R. Witomski, Kvetch (Celestial Arts, 1989)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Again- as a kinky person- have we not "subdivided" ourselves endlessly?

If I say I'm a sub- that doesn't mean slave- but it doesn't mean just bedroom only either. I could be a rope bunny, a maso, a slut who likes being shared, I could be into scat and piss play or fire and electricity- it's the same thing with all these meddling gay and trans kids.

People don't fit into boxes nicely sometimes. It's really that easy. It takes even less time and money to be educated about trans and LGBTQ lingo than it does to learn about kink. I think your confusion is just kinda an excuse to not learn about it- I don't want to give anyone undue credit here- but aren't you all smart enough to figure this shit out?

If you'd actually like to put effort into learning about it (instead of just trying to explain your confusion): http://www.fantasiafair.org/Glossary_of_Terms.aspx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

As I said, I understand CaptR's apathy "whether I feel the same way or not." And the OP of this thread is posted to gain understanding, not avoid it. Also, I wholehearted agree that "People don't fit into boxes nicely sometimes." However you read me right in that I feel we have redundantly over-complicated the terms for gender identity. It seems like we are trying to create a term for every niche. I understand wanting to have a term all to yourself for the sake of identity. But when having fewer terms and using two of them describes something accurately, you have a more user friendly situation. Especially for outsiders. Like Bi/Poly/Slave doesn't need a new word to separate it from Straight/Poly/Slave.

In the 70s I was involved in the gay community and producing drag shows. There were terms like butch, fem, top, bottom, sissy, bear, transsexual, drag queen etc. It was easy to understand what a transsexual top or transsexual bottom's role would be. I had an understanding of the terms we used . . . until I saw trans profiles on CollarSpace listing them as straight.

My disagreement with unnecessary new terms is not because I don't want learn about gender identity. I just think the straight majority feels we have gone too far. Now the politically correct, oversensitive gender identity community wants to eliminate the terms "he" and "she" to replace them with the universal term "ze" because . . . "binary conceptions of gender are unnecessarily rigid and don't correspond to the self-image of a great many people, and even that people's sense of their gender may not correspond to their biological sex. In this new world, a bland opposition between "he" and "she" seems increasingly antique, and even insulting, to many." I understand that perspective, but trying to associate he & she to an insult for straight people . . . well, I can see where a language change like that for a minority might feel like gay privilege to the straight majority. I don't think it will unite, educate or help further the LGBT cause. I think it will be met with the same disdain trans bathrooms were.
Goodbye to 'he' and 'she' and hello to 'ze'? - CNN

As far as the OP goes, I believe dcnovice might be onto something, "CM labels may not be the best tool for plumbing the complexities of gender identity." But that still leaves me wondering what gender a straight trans person is attracted to. Thank you for the link, but unfortunately the Glossary of LGBT-related Terms didn't help explain "straight trans" or teach me any new terms. We have an thread here on the forums that has an interesting glossary of terms from the Lesbian Handbook...
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4877168/tm.htm#4877168

So far, no one has been able to tell me whether a man's profile listed as Trans & Straight is seeking men, women or both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Again- as a kinky person- have we not "subdivided" ourselves endlessly?

If I say I'm a sub- that doesn't mean slave- but it doesn't mean just bedroom only either. I could be a rope bunny, a maso, a slut who likes being shared, I could be into scat and piss play or fire and electricity- it's the same thing with all these meddling gay and trans kids.

People don't fit into boxes nicely sometimes. It's really that easy. It takes even less time and money to be educated about trans and LGBTQ lingo than it does to learn about kink. I think your confusion is just kinda an excuse to not learn about it- I don't want to give anyone undue credit here- but aren't you all smart enough to figure this shit out?

If you'd actually like to put effort into learning about it (instead of just trying to explain your confusion): http://www.fantasiafair.org/Glossary_of_Terms.aspx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So far, no one has been able to tell me whether a man's profile listed as Trans & Straight is seeking men, women or both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So far, no one has been able to tell me whether a man's profile listed as Trans & Straight is seeking men, women or both.

Assuming your befuddlement is genuine; if someone is identifying as a straight trans man, they are generally attracted to women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Again- as a kinky person- have we not "subdivided" ourselves endlessly?

If I say I'm a sub- that doesn't mean slave- but it doesn't mean just bedroom only either. I could be a rope bunny, a maso, a slut who likes being shared, I could be into scat and piss play or fire and electricity- it's the same thing with all these meddling gay and trans kids.

People don't fit into boxes nicely sometimes. It's really that easy. It takes even less time and money to be educated about trans and LGBTQ lingo than it does to learn about kink. I think your confusion is just kinda an excuse to not learn about it- I don't want to give anyone undue credit here- but aren't you all smart enough to figure this shit out?

If you'd actually like to put effort into learning about it (instead of just trying to explain your confusion): http://www.fantasiafair.org/Glossary_of_Terms.aspx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Yes, my question is genuine. I had seen these profiles with straight trans in passing. Later, the thought occurred to me and I wondered what a straight trans was or who they would be seeking since the terms seem confusing? So I took advice from this thread, went back to the other side and set a search for straight trans. There were about 300 of them. I surveyed their seeking preferences ... And the survey says:

Actively Seeking:
Women
Men
Trans

So you are right, the vast majority are bisexuals seeking men, women and other trans. Which leaves me wondering why a bisexual would choose to list as straight since the terms are contradictory? I will probably annoy one of them and write to them asking why they chose to list as straight instead of bisexual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

So far, no one has been able to tell me whether a man's profile listed as Trans & Straight is seeking men, women or both.

Assuming your befuddlement is genuine; if someone is identifying as a straight trans man, they are generally attracted to women.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Metrosexual is a fashion statement, not a gender identity. A couple of centuries ago they were called dandies or macaronis....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Metrosexual is a fashion statement, not a gender identity. A couple of centuries ago they were called dandies or macaronis.

As to why a bisexual person who either identifies as female or other people insist on identifying as female decides to pick straight instead of pansexual? Easy, for the same reason bisexual cisfemales do that. So they don't get hit on by every asshole who wants a threesome.

I would have thought that was apparent. Nobody wants strangers viewing them as fetish delivery systems. At least, not after they've experienced it once.