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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Again, I don't really think this is it. Society and culture have influence, but not control.

It disturbs me that the discourse in this thread assumes that culture and society are monolithic and that they can even be identified. You did mention, LP, that our definition of culture is age related but then you went on as if that didn't matter. Here's the bad news: varying somewhat with different surveys we are now informed almost half the kids between ages 10 to 17 are consuming porn on line, and one third of those kids are sexting their own images. Furthermore, the sex depicted by online porn is becoming less intimate and more brutal. A documentary I watched on Netflix last night claimed that the porn "money shot" was still the male ejaculation, even if that were simulated by whipped creme or mayonnaise, further diminishing the importance of the female orgasm.

Technology continually overwhelms any attempts at female orgasm friendly information. With sincere apologies I came away from reading your most interesting thread with the feeling that we (I include my own poor attempts at being a sex educator) are fighting the last war, blind even to who or what the "controlling" social values are. Porn is not sexual discourse as we would wish it to be but it ain't our grandma's washing machine either, and it is the dominant mode of today's transmission of knowledge. Everything else we do seems to be sweeping up afterwards.

ARTICLE

Allow me to assure you, vincent. My age and my small town upbringing are often on my mind in such discussions. At the same time, I think it's easier for some of us of a certain age to just not G.A.D. about other people's opinions about who, how often, or any other intimate details regarding our sexual experiences.

A part of this is about my thoughts in regarding age, and the older I get, the less other people have power over me. Already been there, done that, got the t-shirt. At this point, and I have reason to think as the years continue, the things I do for fun have less potential to be marked with (society's) scarlet letter. Nobody is kicking me out of the PTA.

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Porn probably is part of the problem there: just look at the response in here to EL James equating BDSM with an abusive relationship over four tiresome volumes that read like they've been translated from the Klingon by babelfish.
I wonder if the relationship dynamics shown in chickflicks and female orientated sitcoms are that much healthier than what you see in teh pron as well, come to that.

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ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
IMO, the dynamics we are shown in film, books, forum posts, and lectures by self appointed bdsm experts is at best bullshit, and more accurately a con, when it is presented by ANYONE who makes ANY money from this stuff in any way. I regard as tiresome nonsense anything about bdsm relationships except that which is written by people about their own relationships and their own unremunerated experience.

Edit to add: I would expand this to include all relationship dynamics, not just bdsm.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Again, I don't really think this is it. Society and culture have influence, but not control.

It disturbs me that the discourse in this thread assumes that culture and society are monolithic and that they can even be identified. You did mention, LP, that our definition of culture is age related but then you went on as if that didn't matter. Here's the bad news: varying somewhat with different surveys we are now informed almost half the kids between ages 10 to 17 are consuming porn on line, and one third of those kids are sexting their own images. Furthermore, the sex depicted by online porn is becoming less intimate and more brutal. A documentary I watched on Netflix last night claimed that the porn "money shot" was still the male ejaculation, even if that were simulated by whipped creme or mayonnaise, further diminishing the importance of the female orgasm.

Technology continually overwhelms any attempts at female orgasm friendly information. With sincere apologies I came away from reading your most interesting thread with the feeling that we (I include my own poor attempts at being a sex educator) are fighting the last war, blind even to who or what the "controlling" social values are. Porn is not sexual discourse as we would wish it to be but it ain't our grandma's washing machine either, and it is the dominant mode of today's transmission of knowledge. Everything else we do seems to be sweeping up afterwards.

ARTICLE

Allow me to assure you, vincent. My age and my small town upbringing are often on my mind in such discussions. At the same time, I think it's easier for some of us of a certain age to just not G.A.D. about other people's opinions about who, how often, or any other intimate details regarding our sexual experiences.

A part of this is about my thoughts in regarding age, and the older I get, the less other people have power over me. Already been there, done that, got the t-shirt. At this point, and I have reason to think as the years continue, the things I do for fun have less potential to be marked with (society's) scarlet letter. Nobody is kicking me out of the PTA.

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Porn probably is part of the problem there: just look at the response in here to EL James equating BDSM with an abusive relationship over four tiresome volumes that read like they've been translated from the Klingon by babelfish.
I wonder if the relationship dynamics shown in chickflicks and female orientated sitcoms are that much healthier than what you see in teh pron as well, come to that.

quote:

one third of those kids are sexting their own images.

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ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Porn probably is part of the problem there: just look at the response in here to EL James equating BDSM with an abusive relationship over four tiresome volumes that read like they've been translated from the Klingon by babelfish.
I wonder if the relationship dynamics shown in chickflicks and female orientated sitcoms are that much healthier than what you see in teh pron as well, come to that.

Barbara Cartland, and Disney have probably given just as many females unattainable expectations about romance and love in relationships as EL James and porn does for what guys should expect of women in BDSM. The only difference is that EL James hit a double whammy when she made Grey a Billionaire so that suddenly he's not just white trash beating the shit out of his girl friend, and dip shit women fell for that crap

Needles

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
Oh dear, my comments were not intended to be a personal criticism of anyone on this thread. I was only trying to point out that (obviously) the new technology has changed the nature of the culture we are trying to identify. The PTA culture is a generational facade overlying the hidden truth of teen culture below, making the work of the educator more difficult.

That's part of why I take my age into account. With that new technology, there are advantages about educational resources. Granted, not all of them are good, but I don't know if that's on topic, off topic, or might start some serious thread drift. Just suffice to say that I think those who are coming of age and learning about sex today h,ave potential options that weren't available when I was that age.

However, let's change one of the platforms. Instead of talking about sex, let's talk about success. I have two generalizations (not absolutes) about success:

If what you (general/not specific you) are doing is not bringing success, trying something else might be a good idea.

(And)

If somebody else is having success in an area that you're not obtaining it, try to learn what they are doing right.

So, even if I'm comparing some blogger who thinks these Cosmo stats are 'just about right' when she compares them to herself or somebody like NN who is doing way better than the supposed results, I know who I want to try to learn from. Hey! I'm even in luck because I've seen her classes advertised and people I know happen to know her, so I know she's reputable. How cool is that?

I really do kind of want more input about how we're looking at the 'society' angle. Is it that "society" thinks these kind of stats are ok and that's all we should expect from our encounters? Is it that if we're doing better than these rather pathetic stats that society doesn't approve? What do people on the thread think it is, exactly?

I'm very interested in hearing other people's ideas.

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If what you (general/not specific you) are doing is not bringing success, trying something else might be a good idea.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

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ORIGINAL: CaptR
I've perused Cosmo when an article was pushed in front of me on occasion and some of the shit they've printed as "fact" on how men behave, what we want, what we care or don't care about is laughable. If women are getting their relationship advice from this borderline fantasy/ pornographic/ ad ridden rag (although the long hair product ads hold a certain allure for me) I'd suggest turning off the "Wives of Where the Fuck Ever" tv show and actually communicating with their partner.

The point is not Cosmo. The point is that a sex educator backed it up withher own statistics, saying, "Yup. This is about right."

And from other places I've posted this, it's resonating with women.

Here's the dets on the Cosmo study: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/23/cosmo-orgasm-survey_n_6923934.html

Here are a few more facts:

"According to Planned Parenthood statistics, as many as 1 in 3 women have trouble reaching orgasm when having sex."

"Only 25 percent of women are consistently orgasmic during vaginal intercourse."
This statistic comes not from just one study, but from a comprehensive analysis of 33 studies over the past 80 years by Elisabeth Lloyd in her fascinating book The Case of the Female Orgasm (Harvard University Press).

So, it's not whether there is a gap, but why are women (supposedly women who are more sexually in-the-know) affected by the same numbers?

Is there anything that can be done about it (for those who want to)? Like what?

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ORIGINAL: CaptR
if you aren't getting what you need, talk about it with your partner or instruct lovers on how to meet your needs. Most men get this.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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ORIGINAL: CaptR
if you aren't getting what you need, talk about it with your partner or instruct lovers on how to meet your needs. Most men get this.

False. Totally not true in my experience! It's more about sexual compatibility. If what gets you off doesn't get the man off. Chances are, the wouldn't be able to meet your needs, because it does not interest him even if he knows what he must do to get you there.

And trust me, that's why there is alot of sexual disatisfaction in marriages.

A man can really care for you and be the sweetest guy outside of the bedroom, take a bullet for you, do anything for you outside of the bedroom, but if he is not sexually compatible with you, you can hold him by the hand and give him idiot proof instruction on how to please you, it will never happen. He won't do it.