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"Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 8:08:31 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline 		I read a tweet last month that said:

quote:

"Our culture still overvalues penile pleasure and undervalues clitoral pleasure."


And it immediately made me feel a bit icky. I wasn't exactly sure why, so I read the attached blog.

It discusses the orgasm gap, and how it is currently measured:

quote:

"Closer quotes a 2015 Cosmopolitan study which found that only 57% of women usually reach orgasm with a partner, while their partners climax 95% of the time. Becoming Cliterate adds that in first-time hookups, only 4% of women say they usually reach orgasm, versus 55% of men."


The author ( a sex-positive blogger and educator) then goes on to state that her own records show that she is pretty much statistically in line with the Cosmo study.

This shocked me.

Now, I don't want to bust on this woman. I only link to give credit where credit is due.

I do want to know why, though, from all of you.

WHY is there an orgasm gap?

Why is our society and culture determining what we think is OK to do in our bedrooms?

Why is this so widespread and prevalent that even sex bloggers and educators fall for it, and use it as an excuse?

I mean if the people we turn to for inspiration are not making female orgasm as important in their own lives as male orgasm, why do they expect others to do so?

For my personal sex life, the orgasm gap goes WAY in the other direction. Between last night and this morning, the ratio was:

Female Orgasms: 39
Mal Orgasms: 2

I'm doing my part. And I'm writing about it: Orgasm Gap? BAH! Not For Me, Thanks!

And I teach orgasm classes. And I encourage people to talk about what gets them off. Women, especially, but even men, because men can experience so much more than an ejaculatory orgasm with refraction period from penile stimulation, too...

And who doesn't want more and better orgasms?

(Yes, I know there are people who don't, but I hope those aren't the same people bitching about the orgasm gap, so are not the topic of this writing.)

Here's another question:

Why the fuck are we allowing society or culture to decide how we fuck?

And then complaining about it, as if we have no control?

Why are we afraid to tell the people we go to bed with how we can be brought to orgasm? Seems like that's a minimum requirement:

  • Go to bed with people you can speak honestly to about the sex and how to make fan-fucking-tastic.

    Or, maybe I'm weird like that.

    Another minimum:

  • Don't go to bed with people only focused on their orgasms.

    Another oddity of my personality.

    I don't know the answer, except to say that maybe we should examine what our culture and society teaches us about orgasms for all genders, then determine how much of that we want to throw out in the pursuit of real satisfaction.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 8:59:55 AM   
    WickedsDesire


    Posts: 9362
    Joined: 11/4/2015
    Status: offline     		My bedroom is a place of utter wretch, marauding cats and lone hot water bottle.

    Which would make my score x last 2 years
    Me zero
    Non-wench zero.

    Harsh times indeed, poverty infact :)

    Are you talking about clit orgasms alone or pleasure and/or denial.

    Most men's objectives is to orgasm and often just the once, most do not consider a women's pleasure they are secondary on that road.

    What makes someone good at sex, or pleasure, is a little more difficult for me to answer. Knowing someone -or that special someone(s), as everyone is unique, is no easy task, and one should never be afraid to ask, or tell, and ask or tell again. I know you know that but most do not. And most on here, or everywhere, know my stance on badly written articles or stereotypes.

    Orgasms should always be wonderful as opposed to eg deposit load fall asleep.

    I will temper that with its rare I will unleash my best work on all women, that is reserved for an absolute minority for a variety of reasons - 3is the number I usually cite.


    < Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 4/19/2017 9:05:53 AM >

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 9:33:21 AM   
    Lucylastic


    Posts: 40310
    Status: offline     		I never did like cosmo studies.
    I used to sell ann summers sex toys back in the 80s, always would talk about sex, openly, and humourously, why its ok to be sexual, but not in a class type setting. this was done in livingrooms, kitchens, with a few women, some toys and wine.

    Some were more "puritanical" than others, and those were the interesting ones, some explaining that it had always been taught to them that orgasm was bad.
    Masturbation was bad, oral sex was bad(it hurt me that it could be so buried in the psyche). They would often buy toys after the party so that no one would know what they had bought, but many did open up more about things they had heard and wondered about.
    I used toys as props together with fruit, and other items for the clit, how to put on a condom using lips and tongue only.
    Many said they masturbated to orgasm because their men were inconsiderate, lazy and yes roll over and go to sleep.
    And how hard it was to talk about their needs because...he didnt know what he was doing in the first place, or had the husbands ask me for advice, because he didnt know how to approach her and she thought he should know what he is doing as he was "the man"
    I heard a lot of complaints from both sides
    I nearly went to Uni to become a sex therapist, but im better talking than I am writing.
    Then kids.etc
    I married my hubby because the first night we met, he blew my mind... and I enjoy sex a lot, and orgasm a lot, and have done most of our marriage, but I talked his ear off about it.what did it for him, what did it for me, other ideas, he was shy, but he enjoyed that I was so open to his desires.
    We didnt always get what we wanted, but there were actual reasons, rather than shut it away.

    It is a dealbreaker for me or has been, if Im not happy sexually, Im not a happy camper. As I get older, reality sets in fast, but I dont ever wanna not have good sex
    I try humour when I discuss sex with others. as a way to break down those barriers, I still do it when Im in business, with current customers, past customers and friends. I dont get embarrassed by it, and I think thats the crux
    I think I rambled a bit...
    sorry, lol



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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 10:04:29 AM   
    Greta75


    Posts: 9968
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    Status: offline     		9/10 guys whom I try to tell how I get my orgasms tries to tell me they know better than me how to give me my orgasms and refuses to execute what I told them and insist on their superior way which worked on the hundreds of women before me apparently.

    That's why.

    1/10 men would actually listen.

    So most of the time. I reward the 9/10 with their superior method with a look of boredom and no reaction.

    Of course I am not a domme, so probably topping males don't want to hear how to get me off.

    I always give any man who I am having sex with blue print how to get me off, but 9/10 don't execute it and want to do things their way, insisting their way is gonna get me better orgasms.

    Of course this is my personal battle with men and their insistent that giving oral to women is the holy grail to their orgasms. And for me. It's the holy grail to turning me off.

    As for Orgasms gap, I suspect many women who did not orgase probably have no idea where is their orgasmic point and there are many inflexible men or non-creative men who will never explore them enough to find out.

    I can't imagine if any woman knows how to get herself off, why wouldn't she just tell the dude how to do it! I always do! Then the other problem is. The dude doesn't agree with it! It's a phenomenon, the arguments I get with men about. Them telling me they know better than me how to give ME orgasms. I'm a woman who has a new ONS almost every week, so, I have alot of statistic on this! And they are men from all different nationalities. No difference where they come from.

    It's always like, "What??? How could you not like oral?" And I'd be like, "It gives me lacklustre orgasms, waste of my time." And they'd be like, "I've made so many women cum with my tongue that never experienced an orgasm before! You just haven't experience the right tongue!" And I'm like, " Look, I've been with alot tongues on pussy, NONE were great, and many have cited pretty much the same credentials as you!"

    You get the drift....how this goes on and on, about how I should give him a chance to try oral on me!

    < Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/19/2017 10:19:59 AM >

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 10:22:11 AM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
    Status: offline     		"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

    Hmmmmm. . . .that sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it.

    In my age cohort (I am very very old, happily) when we first felt the erotic itch between our thighs we had only two solutions: 1. masturbate, 2. penetrate anything that lay still long enough. Clitoris? WTF? Clueless. Has that changed during the intervening years? Do young men enter their raging teen years with a user's guide on the clitoris? Do young women have such a pamphlet?

    Educating one on one is fine, once you get past the personality walls that dissuade communication. But if it is still the major mode of passing the message along, I fear the gap will continue unabated. I taught human sexuality as part of a Biology unit to high school kids, fending off my Principal, who was a devout Catholic, and I was not surprised to find that Ms. Clitoris was still a mystery in the 1980s public schools. Masters and Johnson's physiological research were new to us at the time.

    Has any of that improved these past three decades? Or are the kids still wallowing in that swamp of ignorance?


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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 10:44:10 AM   
    Lucylastic


    Posts: 40310
    Status: offline     		Really not attempting to be "sexist" because both sexes have issues with intimacy But the joke
    Q. Whats the difference between the clitoris and a tv remote?
    A. Men will look for the tv remote.
    Is still going around and has been since the invention of "tv remotes"

    VIncent, that made me smile, heh.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 10:53:15 AM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

    Really not attempting to be "sexist" because both sexes have issues with intimacy But the joke
    Q. Whats the difference between the clitoris and a tv remote?
    A. Men will look for the tv remote.
    Is still going around and has been since the invention of "tv remotes"

    VIncent, that made me smile, heh.


    Gave me a hearty laugh, Lucy, with the same apologies, because I had never heard it before (or it is lost in my ancient memory web)




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    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 11:23:55 AM   
    NookieNotes


    Posts: 1720
    Joined: 11/10/2013
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

    Most men's objectives is to orgasm and often just the once, most do not consider a women's pleasure they are secondary on that road.


    Which is a good reason not to sleep with most men.

    Do women not know how to judge this BEFORE diving into bed?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

    I never did like cosmo studies.


    Me neither. I was appalled that a sex blogger and educator was backing one up IN HER OWN LIFE like that. Da fuq?


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75

    9/10 guys whom I try to tell how I get my orgasms tries to tell me they know better than me how to give me my orgasms and refuses to execute what I told them and insist on their superior way which worked on the hundreds of women before me apparently.


    So 9/10 guys would not get sex from me. LOL!

    quote:

    Of course I am not a domme, so probably topping males don't want to hear how to get me off.


    This sounds backwards to me. As a domme, I want to know EVERY way a submissive knows how to get off, then I want to find more that they have never discovered.

    I like training with pleasure as a very powerful motivator. The good doms I know here are the same way. Are male dominants that much different where you are?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vincentML

    Educating one on one is fine, once you get past the personality walls that dissuade communication. But if it is still the major mode of passing the message along, I fear the gap will continue unabated.


    This is the thing. If one-on-one is all we have, how would the gap continue, IF people actually communicated? And if women took their toys (pussy) and went home, if he was not listening?

    I don't think this is specifically the fault of men, is what I'm saying.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

    Really not attempting to be "sexist" because both sexes have issues with intimacy But the joke


    Q: What's the difference between a girl's G-spot and a golf ball?
    A: A man will spend hours looking for a golf ball.

    And there are problems that men have, too, and I'm sympathetic. I can afford to be, I make sure my sexual gratification needs are met, LOL!

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 12:13:18 PM   
    WickedsDesire


    Posts: 9362
    Joined: 11/4/2015
    Status: offline     		I am a fragile little petal as you know bursts into flames. Do you believe most women are any better? The majority of both are equally complicit.

    So I will go with this clip "The Medusa Touch": Trailer - Out on Blu-Ray 15

    "I have a gift for disaster"

    "I am the man with the power to create catastrophe"

    "What am I"

    i am soo watching that film this week :)

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 12:57:12 PM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    This is the thing. If one-on-one is all we have, how would the gap continue, IF people actually communicated? And if women took their toys (pussy) and went home, if he was not listening?

    I don't think this is specifically the fault of men, is what I'm saying.


    Ho Boy, this is a tough one to reply to because all I have is guesses and no universal data to wave about.

    "If people actually communicated. . . " There's the rub (sorta) How many opportunities do most people have to communicate? Not so many, I'm guessing. First and foremost is the wall of traditional marriage. If it is true that 50% fail then its safe to say there is not a helluva lot of communication going on, certainly not discourse over a period of learning. People in marriages screw, suck, lick, diddle, but often out of habit without exploration and without intent to satisfy. "Was that good for you, honey?" . . "Yes, it was," she replied to her three minute man, not wishing to shatter his ego, thinking he needs to be mowing the green grass.

    Then, outside of marriages there are a lot of hit and runs, one-offs, so to speak. "Oh, yeah, sure, that was good, sweetheart, ring me up sometime."

    I am questioning out of all the people who are sexing how many are talking?

    Color me skeptical.

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    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 3:37:58 PM   
    NookieNotes


    Posts: 1720
    Joined: 11/10/2013
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vincentML
    "If people actually communicated. . . " There's the rub (sorta) How many opportunities do most people have to communicate?


    If my life is any indication, WAY more often than there are opportunities to have sex. After all, having sex is frowned upon while waiting in line at Jiffy Lube, at the grocery store, or eating dinner at a restaurant.

    Communication, however, can pretty much happen anywhere. Before, during and after sex, even. Refractory periods, you know...

    quote:

    I am questioning out of all the people who are sexing how many are talking?


    Why not all of them?

    I mean, sure, I know there are people who have sex with people they don't know. But not enough to make up the average for all women to be 57%.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 3:40:55 PM   
    needlesandpins


    Posts: 3901
    Status: offline     		In my last two 'relationships' I've always had far more orgasms to their count. I put that down to the fact that I'm very straight forward in what I want, but I'm also very lucky in that I don't need a lot of faffing around with either if I've been listened to. I also don't understand this notion of women that fake their orgasms to stroke a guy's ego. Seriously, WTF is that about? If he's not pushing your buttons correctly then tell him how to get the job done. I've never faked an orgasm in my life ... I've faked not having one, but that's a different story.

    By the same token though, I want to know exactly how to please the guy I'm with. If he's not reacting to what I'm doing, well I'm also not going to enjoy it either. I want to know exactly how he likes getting a blow job, just how much pressure he likes from my hands, etc ...

    You can claim to be as fantastic as you like, however, it means jack shit if it doesn't suit my needs. It's what always makes me laugh about all these subs that bang on about how great they are at oral. Yeah yeah, I've had ONE man ever make me cum from oral. ONE! I didn't have to tell him anything, and yet I spent 16 years with a guy determined he was going to be the one, and I tried every which way to tell him what to do, but zilch. He never got his ego stroked with a fake either ... well, not a fake orgasm at any rate.

    Needles

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/19/2017 6:38:35 PM   
    DesFIP


    Posts: 25191
    Joined: 11/25/2007
    From: Apple County NY
    Status: offline     		The problem is that most people are not comfortable talking about sex. Many young women, the Cosmo audience, are not comfortable having self love.

    Basically, if you don't know what you need in order to orgasm, and you are incapable of talking about it clinically, then you can't teach a new partner what works for you.

    Part of sex ed should be teaching people that if they aren't yet ready to talk about sex, then they aren't ready to have sex.

    But really, it's easy enough to set up a sex ed folder on the computer for teens, filled with helpful sites. Scarleteen was a good site when my son hit puberty. Not sure if it still is. With that said, most of his friends' parents didn't do that and a lot of boys spent time on our computer. This was Windows 95.

    < Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/19/2017 6:45:40 PM >

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 3:22:03 AM   
    NookieNotes


    Posts: 1720
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DesFIP

    The problem is that most people are not comfortable talking about sex. Many young women, the Cosmo audience, are not comfortable having self love.


    So, how does this happen to a sex blogger? I mean, someone who is educating others?

    How does it happen to us kinky people, who know that communication is key?

    I think part of is is unconscious incompetence, not knowing what they don't know...

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 6:11:05 AM   
    WickedsDesire


    Posts: 9362
    Joined: 11/4/2015
    Status: offline     		Nookie 1/10 a generous reflection I feel. The would hear, not listen, and therein lies the problem. Are women less guilty - i do not think so.

    So its more than a communication problem I think Vincent learning problem? adapting to another? for we are all unique...But as i always say there is no shame in asking, or telling, over and over again eg I persistently forget what TPE means, FR etc so i ask and ask again.

    And I always ask the women what she likes and where. Granted I dont always do that for variety is wonderful in many ways.
    And if you cant do that face to face, or over a bottle wine, you can do it via text etc

    Take something like orgasm denial I day drag that out for a whole day, perhaps several hours, or have her on the precipice say 9 times and allow her to orgasm on the 10th

    Anyway even I know women's minds are naughtier than mens - tis true you know dear readers

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 6:51:17 AM   
    Greta75


    Posts: 9968
    Joined: 2/6/2011
    Status: offline     		Well end of the day, honestly, in my experience, not every man can take feedback on sex. Infact, EVEN if they claim they can. Many don't take it well later.

    I know because I am outspoken and I always give feedback. During and After. For me, I'm a very pragmatic person. I want to reach my orgasms. I can teach any man to get me there as long as they are willing to go along with what works for me. It's that simple. But it is still their choice whether they want to bother to do it or not.

    I think there are many women who may never experience what serious orgasms feel like, that accounts for those gaps. Because, especially in my region, where many women still wait till marriage to have sex. So many of them don't even really think about their orgasms. They think sex is just about, the man reaching his cum and that's it. Whatever lacklustre experience they feel on their end, that's just what they think sex is about. They will never know it could be more.

    Because many times too, you could be dealing with two clueless virgins. I mean think of Japan. 50% of men between 20 to 40 yr old are virgins. 40% of women between those same ages are virgins.

    When they have sex, it's just gonna, penetrate, cum, it's over. And both will have no fucking clue at all there is more!


    < Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/20/2017 6:55:32 AM >

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 12:24:37 PM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: vincentML
    "If people actually communicated. . . " There's the rub (sorta) How many opportunities do most people have to communicate?


    If my life is any indication, WAY more often than there are opportunities to have sex. After all, having sex is frowned upon while waiting in line at Jiffy Lube, at the grocery store, or eating dinner at a restaurant.

    Communication, however, can pretty much happen anywhere. Before, during and after sex, even. Refractory periods, you know...

    quote:

    I am questioning out of all the people who are sexing how many are talking?


    Why not all of them?

    I mean, sure, I know there are people who have sex with people they don't know. But not enough to make up the average for all women to be 57%.

    Oh, hell no! Ive been standing in the checkout line at Publix for decades waiting for some delicious Goddess to start a chat about orgasm denial and the role of supermenchen in Nietzschen philosophy, when all I ever got was some wrinkled, smelly, dirty, boozy old man begging a buck for a condom. Disgusting and disappointing, wouldn't you agree?

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    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 12:27:44 PM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DesFIP

    The problem is that most people are not comfortable talking about sex. Many young women, the Cosmo audience, are not comfortable having self love.


    So, how does this happen to a sex blogger? I mean, someone who is educating others?

    How does it happen to us kinky people, who know that communication is key?

    I think part of is is unconscious incompetence, not knowing what they don't know...

    We are massively outnumbered by the armada of conventionality. Like standing on the beach and spitting into the wind.

    _____________________________

    vML

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 12:30:17 PM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
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    quote:

    So its more than a communication problem I think Vincent learning problem? adapting to another? for we are all unique...

    A numbers problem, Wicked.

    Too many bricks in the wall.

    _____________________________

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    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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    RE: "Society" Has NO Place In My Bedroom! - 4/20/2017 12:35:37 PM   
    vincentML


    Posts: 9980
    Joined: 10/31/2009
    Status: offline
    quote:

    But really, it's easy enough to set up a sex ed folder on the computer for teens, filled with helpful sites. Scarleteen was a good site when my son hit puberty. Not sure if it still is. With that said, most of his friends' parents didn't do that and a lot of boys spent time on our computer. This was Windows 95.

    A commendable idea, Des. One you could even take public and monetize. A channel for human sexuality. Ho Hah! Wouldn't that set a blaze in the church ladies' drawers?

    _____________________________

    vML

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

    (in reply to DesFIP)
    Profile   Post #: 20
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