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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 9:34:03 PM

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

They were the only choice. Do you have any idea how many thousands of our troops were slaughtered when they found themselves surrounded by the infiltrating Chinese? U.S. combat deaths totaled 8,516 up to our first engagement with Chinese forces. When it was over that number was 33,686.

Nuclear weapons were the only option we had to force China to withdraw. We didn't use them. Part of me is glad we didn't. Another part of me, not so much. There would be no moral high ground in bombing China and killing innocent civilians. But there wasn't any in letting our troops be slaughtered, either.

Enjoy your virtue signalling.

K.

Roflmfao...start a war with china and then snivel when they fight back.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/24/2017 9:36:42 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 9:38:41 PM

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If the goal of amerika was to restore the status quo what were amerikan troops doing at the yalu river?

That was a consequence of MacArthur's narcissism.

Or perhaps truman's adventurism?

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 10:39:43 PM

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quote:

They were the only choice. Do you have any idea how many thousands of our troops were slaughtered when they found themselves surrounded by the infiltrating Chinese? U.S. combat deaths totaled 8,516 up to our first engagement with Chinese forces. When it was over that number was 33,686.

Let's not mislead with the numbers, K. The NK invaded the South on 25 June, 1950. Seoul fell just three days later. By August the ROK (South Korean) troops and the UN troops were pushed all the way south to the Pusan Perimeter, which they held long enough for MacArthur to invade behind the NK lines at Inchon. Those 8516 deaths came in the retreat south to Pusan at the hands of the NK, not the Chinese. If you have some time I would suggest you read Halberstam's The Coldest Winter.

After his success at Inchon MacArthur went whole hog northward, pushing his generals to take the entire peninsula, unaware that up to 200,000 Chinese were already infiltrating and settling in the mountains waiting for him. When Truman asked if the Chinese were any threat for intervention MacArthur waived them off. The colonels and generals in Halberstam's interviews bitched that MacArthur never set foot on the Korean peninsula but fought the entire war from Tokyo. The remaining 25,000 deaths took place over the next two and a half years during the back and forth stalemate across the 38th Parallel. The names of the battles are well known. MacArthur requested 34 nuclear weapons at his disposal. The Soviets were committed to aide the Chinese. There is a lot of confusing back and forth between MacArthur and Truman, lies and lack of respect. MacArthur's firing by Truman was approved by Congressional Committees. The Chinese suffered huge losses during the stalemate. As you know the Armistice was signed in 1953. But there is still no political settlement, and I fear I have zero confidence in our current leader. Hopefully, I will be happily surprised.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 4/24/2017 10:40:11 PM >

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 10:51:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: vincentML
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

If the goal of amerika was to restore the status quo what were amerikan troops doing at the yalu river?

That was a consequence of MacArthur's narcissism.

Or perhaps truman's adventurism?

The Cold War was a multifaceted opportunity for the Brass. Not so much so for the grunts. MacArthur was a prima donna, from my reading. We should never forget that he drove the veterans' bonus army off the Anaconda flats and burned their tents after Eleanor Roosevelt had set about feeding them. Well, actually, he was a prick, imo.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/25/2017 1:17:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

They were the only choice. Do you have any idea how many thousands of our troops were slaughtered when they found themselves surrounded by the infiltrating Chinese? U.S. combat deaths totaled 8,516 up to our first engagement with Chinese forces. When it was over that number was 33,686.

Those 8516 deaths came in the retreat south to Pusan at the hands of the NK, not the Chinese.

Read those pretty red words again?

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

When Truman asked if the Chinese were any threat for intervention MacArthur waived them off.

Yes, MacArthur was a pig-headed ass.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The remaining 25,000 deaths took place over the next two and a half years during the back and forth stalemate across the 38th Parallel.

Far from all of them, Vincent.

the first confrontation between Chinese and U.S. military occurred on 1 November 1950; deep in North Korea, thousands of soldiers from the PVA 39th Army encircled and attacked the U.S. 8th Cavalry Regiment with three-prong assaults—from the north, northwest, and west—and overran the defensive position flanks in the Battle of Unsan . . . On 25 November at the Korean western front, the PVA 13th Army Group attacked and overran the ROK II Corps at the Battle of the Ch'ongch'on River, and then decimated the US 2nd Infantry Division on the UN forces' right flank . . . On 27 November at the Korean eastern front, a U.S. 7th Infantry Division Regimental Combat Team (3,000 soldiers) and the U.S. 1st Marine Division (12,000–15,000 marines) were unprepared for the PVA 9th Army Group's three-pronged encirclement tactics at the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, but escaped under Air Force and X Corps support fire—albeit with some 15,000 collective casualties. ~Source

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/25/2017 2:03:25 AM >

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/25/2017 7:09:06 AM

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I don't see where we disagree, Kirata.

MacArthur, blinded by his zealous Godliness, lead coalition troops north into a trap. And then, oops, maybe we could use 34 nuclear weapons aimed at industrial cities in Mongolia and China, where Russian troops were gathering.

That's a fine mess, McGee.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/25/2017 9:42:04 AM

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Its actually a really good film have you seen it all?

But even I know NK cannot be allowed to continue. They can still and try and collapse it from within

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/25/2017 3:03:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Its actually a really good film have you seen it all?

But even I know NK cannot be allowed to continue. They can still and try and collapse it from within

I actually sit and read a book from time to time, Wicked, me lad

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/25/2017 6:42:32 PM

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ORIGINAL: vincentML
I actually sit and read a book from time to time, Wicked, me lad

You have to rub it in don't you, show off.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 5:14:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I actually sit and read a book from time to time, Wicked, me lad

You have to rub it in don't you, show off.

As long as there are lots and lots of pictures

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 7:02:57 AM

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

I actually sit and read a book from time to time, Wicked, me lad

Was it sanity who said that those who read do so because they are too lazy to play video games.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 8:50:58 AM

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this all sounds like that very old film DR STRANGELOVE. XX

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 8:57:11 AM

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There was a rather good film that's largely forgotten now because it came out at much the same time and played the same situation straight. It ended with the American president (Rock Hudson in this case?) letting the Russians nuke a city of the same size as the one that a misbehaving air wing (not on orders from Sterling Haydn in this case) had wiped out in the name of detente.
Depressing flick, really.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 9:05:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bondageerone

this all sounds like that very old film DR STRANGELOVE. XX

Hey, wait! Don't knock it. I played Peter Sellers playing DR. S.L.
Actually, my role was limited to the evil glove.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 9:10:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

There was a rather good film that's largely forgotten now because it came out at much the same time and played the same situation straight. It ended with the American president (Rock Hudson in this case?) letting the Russians nuke a city of the same size as the one that a misbehaving air wing (not on orders from Sterling Haydn in this case) had wiped out in the name of detente.
Depressing flick, really.

I remember the film. Rock Hudson??? Not cerebral enough for the part. Probably someone like Henry Fonda. And his wife was shopping in the doomed city wasn't she? Ridiculous plot, I thought. I am Liberal but that was Liberalism jumping the shark.

Bummer. Shoulda sent for John Wayne.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 9:12:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: vincentML

I actually sit and read a book from time to time, Wicked, me lad

Was it sanity who said that those who read do so because they are too lazy to play video games.

I hate playing video games. Waiting for the porn versions. Are they published yet?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/26/2017 9:17:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

There was a rather good film that's largely forgotten now because it came out at much the same time and played the same situation straight. It ended with the American president (Rock Hudson in this case?) letting the Russians nuke a city of the same size as the one that a misbehaving air wing (not on orders from Sterling Haydn in this case) had wiped out in the name of detente.
Depressing flick, really.

I remember the film. Rock Hudson??? Not cerebral enough for the part. Probably someone like Henry Fonda. And his wife was shopping in the doomed city wasn't she? Ridiculous plot, I thought. I am Liberal but that was Liberalism jumping the shark.

Bummer. Shoulda sent for John Wayne.

Thanks. It's good to know I didn't just imagine that one while drunk one evening...

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/27/2017 2:49:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

There was a rather good film that's largely forgotten now because it came out at much the same time and played the same situation straight. It ended with the American president (Rock Hudson in this case?) letting the Russians nuke a city of the same size as the one that a misbehaving air wing (not on orders from Sterling Haydn in this case) had wiped out in the name of detente.
Depressing flick, really.

That sounds like the book Fail Safe

Movie of the same title, but I didn't see it.

Henry Fonda portrayed the US president. But in any case, in the book it was US bombers who nuked Moscow by a series of miscommunications and then had to nuke NYC to make it even, or something like that.

(in reply to WhoreMods)

RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/27/2017 7:45:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

There was a rather good film that's largely forgotten now because it came out at much the same time and played the same situation straight. It ended with the American president (Rock Hudson in this case?) letting the Russians nuke a city of the same size as the one that a misbehaving air wing (not on orders from Sterling Haydn in this case) had wiped out in the name of detente.
Depressing flick, really.

That sounds like the book Fail Safe

Movie of the same title, but I didn't see it.

Henry Fonda portrayed the US president. But in any case, in the book it was US bombers who nuked Moscow by a series of miscommunications and then had to nuke NYC to make it even, or something like that.

I believe you are spot on, Edwird, but the plot is inexcusable in any case. A truly Liberal president would have offered Birmingham instead.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Edwird)

RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/28/2017 3:09:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

I am sure armchair generals and commanders of bigmouth brigades have not only not failed in the last Korean war but already won the next already.

Indeed!!! Their wisdom is directly related to their distance from actual events. Much more than the rest of us, they appreciate that the only wise way to view a war is from very very far away.

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