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AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/22/2017 1:32:12 PM   
vincentML


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Peaceful Outcome For Korean Peninsula Still Possible

Denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula can still be achieved peacefully because of Washington’s new engagement with China, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence said on Saturday, despite growing fears North Korea could soon conduct a new nuclear test.

South Korea is on heightened alert ahead of another important anniversary in the reclusive North that could be the trigger for a new nuclear test or launch of ballistic missiles, with a large concentration of military hardware massed on both sides of the border.

Tensions have risen sharply in recent months after Pyongyang conducted two nuclear weapons tests last year and carried out a steady stream of ballistic missile tests in defiance of United Nations resolutions and sanctions.

U.S. President Donald Trump has vowed to prevent North Korea from being able to hit the United States with a nuclear missile but his deputy said in Sydney on Saturday a peaceful outcome was still achievable because of warming ties between Beijing and Washington.

“We truly believe that, as our allies in the region and China bring that pressure to bear, there is a chance that we can achieve a historic objective of a nuclear-free Korea peninsula by peaceful means,” Pence said.


South Korea, Japan, and China are caught between the gang who has nothing much to lose and the gang who can't shoot straight.

Presumably, Mr. Trump, leader of the latter group and of the free world will display his will and determination by searching out our missing Carrier Strike Group. In the meantime he is taking lessons on Korean history from Mr Xi, who is quietly guffawing. Where the hell is Harry Truman when we need him?

What odds will you give that the North will attack Seoul before oh say . . July 4th?

Or will Trump launch a yugely preemptive strike against NK?

Do you have faith in our Dear Leader or their Dear Leader???

What could possibly go wrong?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/22/2017 2:00:52 PM   
Real0ne


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TEvacFETvM

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/22/2017 5:31:59 PM   
Termyn8or


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FR

Does anyone realize how hard it is to build an ICBM to deliver such a weapon ? It is possible NK can afford one. Destroy one city in the US, providing US defense fails again. Then what happens, one of our many hits them and there is no more NK.

Another way to deliver a nuke is by submarine, do they even have any ? And then there are planes, you think under these conditions that NK military planes will be allowed anywhere near the US ? Not happening.

And if they even launch, we don't have to. We can walk in and take that country, not thatit will be all that easy but might be easier than Iraq. If they launch, China will not be so stupid as to support them because they know what that means, war and no more trade.

Russia is how much bigger than NK ? And they got the sense ot to attack us. This little pipsqueak means nothing. All he can possibly accomplish is to get him and his people killed. The US can do it with the push of a button.

Well it actually isn't all that simple but still, they can be gone by dawn.

T^T

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/22/2017 8:56:43 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Does anyone realize how hard it is to build an ICBM to deliver such a weapon ? It is possible NK can afford one. Destroy one city in the US, providing US defense fails again. Then what happens, one of our many hits them and there is no more NK.

Another way to deliver a nuke is by submarine, do they even have any ? And then there are planes, you think under these conditions that NK military planes will be allowed anywhere near the US ? Not happening.

And if they even launch, we don't have to. We can walk in and take that country, not thatit will be all that easy but might be easier than Iraq. If they launch, China will not be so stupid as to support them because they know what that means, war and no more trade.

Russia is how much bigger than NK ? And they got the sense ot to attack us. This little pipsqueak means nothing. All he can possibly accomplish is to get him and his people killed. The US can do it with the push of a button.

Well it actually isn't all that simple but still, they can be gone by dawn.

T^T

North Korea:

Total Population: 24,983,205
Available Manpower: 13,000,000
Fit for Service: 10,100,000
Reaching Military Age Annually: 415,000
Active Frontline Personnel: 700,000
Active Reserve Personnel: 4,500,000

LAND SYSTEMS - Tank value includes Main Battle Tanks, light tanks and tank destroyers, either wheeled or tracked. AFV value includes Armored Personnel Carriers (APCs) and Infantry Fighting Vehicles (IFVs).

Tanks: 4,200
Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFVs): 4,100
Self-Propelled Guns (SPGs): 2,250
Towed-Artillery: 4,300
Multiple-Launch Rocket Systems (MLRSs): 2,400

AIR POWER - Includes both fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft from all branches of service.
Total Aircraft: 944
Fighters/Interceptors: 458
Fixed-Wing Attack Aircraft: 572
Transport Aircraft: 100
Trainer Aircraft: 169
Helicopters: 202
Attack Helicopters: 20

NK Power Ranking Data


If NK attacked Seoul would the United States have the moral and strategic justification to launch a nuclear attack against Pyongyang?

What's the plan?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/23/2017 5:00:18 AM   
blnymph


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I am sure armchair generals and commanders of bigmouth brigades have not only not failed in the last Korean war but already won the next already.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/23/2017 7:10:17 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

I am sure armchair generals and commanders of bigmouth brigades have not only not failed in the last Korean war but already won the next already.

Really, it is so small a country, just an annoyance. Our friends the Chinese will hold them in tow. Not to worry. They have a crazy leader; we have one even crazier. Pffft!

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/23/2017 6:39:03 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Does anyone realize how hard it is to build an ICBM to deliver such a weapon ? It is possible NK can afford one. Destroy one city in the US, providing US defense fails again. Then what happens, one of our many hits them and there is no more NK.

Another way to deliver a nuke is by submarine, do they even have any ? And then there are planes, you think under these conditions that NK military planes will be allowed anywhere near the US ? Not happening.

And if they even launch, we don't have to. We can walk in and take that country, not thatit will be all that easy but might be easier than Iraq. If they launch, China will not be so stupid as to support them because they know what that means, war and no more trade.

Russia is how much bigger than NK ? And they got the sense ot to attack us. This little pipsqueak means nothing. All he can possibly accomplish is to get him and his people killed. The US can do it with the push of a button.

Well it actually isn't all that simple but still, they can be gone by dawn.

T^T


What happened the last time amerika attacked n.k.?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 2:23:32 AM   
Termyn8or


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We lost.

Happy now ?

T^T

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 3:10:14 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
If NK attacked Seoul would the United States have the moral and strategic justification to launch a nuclear attack against Pyongyang?

If NK attacked Seoul would you believe the US is justified to retaliate at all? Do you think that nuclear weapons would be the first choice of the generals?

_____________________________

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 7:28:03 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
If NK attacked Seoul would the United States have the moral and strategic justification to launch a nuclear attack against Pyongyang?

If NK attacked Seoul would you believe the US is justified to retaliate at all? Do you think that nuclear weapons would be the first choice of the generals?

They were the first choice by General MacArthur when the Chinese came south across the Yalu River, Johnny. Do I believe that President Trump is as loony as General MacArthur? You betcha I do, he is, and he will. It is the ultimate narcissist dream.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 8:29:49 AM   
InfoMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

We lost.

Happy now ?

T^T


People actually think that?

The Korean War started when North Korea Invaded South Korea and was the first principle mission of peace undertaken by the United Nations - Predominantly lead by US Forces, the UN and South Korea successfully thwarted the Invasion and established the Demilitarized Zone at the 38th Parallel.

So the US technically Won, in that we completed our objectives.

Now, granted, when the ROK and MacArthur went beyond the original objective - pushing north, and eventually capturing almost all of Korea it invited Chinese Intervention which pushed UN and ROK forces out of the North and created the years long stalemate and eventual creation of the 38th parallel DMZ... which feels like a loss because the US thinks that anything less then a KO is a loss... but we technically won having completed the objectives we initially set out to achieve.

Fun fact - the Korean War also never ended - because no peace treaty was ever signed.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 9:42:51 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: InfoMan

People actually think that?

Educated ones do.

The Korean War started when North Korea Invaded South Korea

Pretty sure the history books indicate that korea was one country until amerika installed it's puppet in the southern portion.
What you are trying to discuss is a civil war that amerika made possible to insure a continued supply of tungsten...among other things.



and was the first principle mission of peace undertaken by the United Nations

Which does not do anything that amerika does not tell it to do.

- Predominantly lead by US Forces, the UN and South Korea successfully thwarted the Invasion


Not according to the history books.

and established the Demilitarized Zone at the 38th Parallel.

A close look at that line will show that it is not straight so "technically" you are misinformed.


So the US technically Won, in that we completed our objectives

Perhaps you could cite for us, from some credible source just what our 'objectives were?

Now, granted, when the ROK and MacArthur went beyond the original objective - pushing north, and
eventually capturing almost all of Korea


Roflmfao....get a phoquing map. Korea goes all the way to vladivostok.





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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 9:45:37 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: vincentML
ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
ORIGINAL: vincentML
If NK attacked Seoul would the United States have the moral and strategic justification to launch a nuclear attack against Pyongyang?

If NK attacked Seoul would you believe the US is justified to retaliate at all? Do you think that nuclear weapons would be the first choice of the generals?

They were the first choice by General MacArthur when the Chinese came south across the Yalu River, Johnny. Do I believe that President Trump is as loony as General MacArthur? You betcha I do, he is, and he will. It is the ultimate narcissist dream.

If the goal of amerika was to restore the status quo what were amerikan troops doing at the yalu river?

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 10:25:28 AM   
InfoMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Not according to the history books.



What history books?
Honestly - which history books do you read that states the US Set up a puppet government in the south?

... i'm genuinely curious because most history books says the complete opposite... that it was Russia that set up a puppet communist government in the north in defiance to the UN Resolution which recognized South Korea as the sole government of Korea. The only History Books which say otherwise are propaganda books printed in North Korea and China.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 10:53:36 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: InfoMan
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Not according to the history books.



What history books?
Honestly - which history books do you read that states the US Set up a puppet government in the south?

Perhaps if you tried something really difficult like typing 'is south korea a puppet state' into google. Educate yourself missinfoman.
Stop being so phoquing stupid.


... i'm genuinely curious because most history books says the complete opposite... that it was Russia
that set up a puppet communist government in the north in defiance to the UN Resolution which recognized
South Korea as the sole government of Korea.
How is it then that both north and south korea are members of the u.n.?
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.


The only History Books which say otherwise are propaganda books printed in North Korea and China.

Dude...all history books are propaganda.
[/quote]

(in reply to InfoMan)
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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 11:06:57 AM   
kdsub


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I believe there will be some form of military action in the coming months. Trump will be giving a briefing on North Korea Wednesday. He has invited all 100 senators to attend.

No great strategist or general but I think the US would be foolish to attack NK with the limited forces in the region now. We may be able to disable his nuclear capabilities, and that is a maybe, but there is no way we could prevent devastation of Seoul. North Korea, by some estimates, has the largest number of artillery pieces in the world. They are dug in all along the DMZ and there is no way to take them out fast enough to prevent a disaster as Seoul is easily in their range.

Any action against North Korea would cost many American lives even if China and Russia stay on the sidelines. U.S. and South Korean forces I think would prevail after a bitter conflict...but... I believe China is more worried about a unified Korea being an ally of the US than North Korea being a nuclear power. So at best I think China would only allow limited military action without coming to the aid of North Korea. Limited action would not solve the problem. So the bottom line to me is if we go to war we had better have a build up of arms in the region and be prepared to go to war with China again.

China is not the paper tiger as it was in the 1950's. I am not even sure the US is capable of defeating China in conventional warfare and the use of nuclear weapons would mean our destruction.

I think the only option is continued pressure on China and in the short run just accept that North Korea will join the nuclear club. I believe behind the scenes threats of economic sanctions against China if they do not curb NK's nuclear program will be more effective in the long run than war.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/24/2017 11:17:10 AM >


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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 11:20:28 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: vincentML
ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
ORIGINAL: vincentML
If NK attacked Seoul would the United States have the moral and strategic justification to launch a nuclear attack against Pyongyang?

If NK attacked Seoul would you believe the US is justified to retaliate at all? Do you think that nuclear weapons would be the first choice of the generals?

They were the first choice by General MacArthur when the Chinese came south across the Yalu River, Johnny. Do I believe that President Trump is as loony as General MacArthur? You betcha I do, he is, and he will. It is the ultimate narcissist dream.

If the goal of amerika was to restore the status quo what were amerikan troops doing at the yalu river?

That was a consequence of MacArthur's narcissism. After the courageous and brilliant amphibious landing at Inchon, MacArthur's troops were behind North Korean lines. They freed Seoul and had the North in a trap. Instead of demolishing the enemy at that point MacArthur turned north and marched on Pyongyang, thinking there were few enemy troops between him and the river. But the Chinese had infiltrated the northern hills and surprised MacArthur. He applied to drop a nuke as the American/UN forces were being pushed south again. Truman fired the General. I think General Matthew Ridgway was his successor.


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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 11:33:46 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Peaceful Outcome For Korean Peninsula Still Possible



Nothing to see here. Situation defused, and peace will be coming to all!!

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/north-korea-offers-unconditional-surrender-after-mike-pence-angrily-squints-at-it **




















** I know it's satire.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 11:43:39 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

If NK attacked Seoul would the United States have the moral and strategic justification to launch a nuclear attack against Pyongyang?

What's the plan?



ah yes moral, as in religious impetus, the US needs no moral to attack anyone, only the need for mo money, or necessity to protect its established money laundering agencies.

moral thats a funny, good one!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: AMERICAN DREAMER - 4/24/2017 11:59:05 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

They were the first choice by General MacArthur when the Chinese came south across the Yalu River . . . It is the ultimate narcissist dream

They were the only choice. Do you have any idea how many thousands of our troops were slaughtered when they found themselves surrounded by the infiltrating Chinese? U.S. combat deaths totaled 8,516 up to our first engagement with Chinese forces. When it was over that number was 33,686.

Nuclear weapons were the only option we had to force China to withdraw. We didn't use them. Part of me is glad we didn't. Another part of me, not so much. There would be no moral high ground in bombing China and killing innocent civilians. But there wasn't any in letting our troops be slaughtered, either.

Enjoy your virtue signalling.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/24/2017 12:05:31 PM >

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