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What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/24/2017 12:51:14 AM

respectmen

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/24/2017 1:11:17 AM

MercTech

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"Multiculturalism" viewed as an assault on traditional community values. Yep, that point of view gets a lot of traction.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/24/2017 1:54:34 AM

Termyn8or

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Multicultursalism kills itself.

Say you like diverssity. You want everyone to interbreed, all races. To actually homogenize the human race. Well when you get done there are no racial or cultural differences. You will all be the same, like in those futuristic movies. I fact forget gender as well. There was a movie like that but I can't remember what it was.

Humans who want to perpetuate their heritage need to stay separate. At least not mate with one another. When I see guy with that really black skin, I mean almost blue, I have to respect his family a little it for maintaining that. Just like families with white skin staying white.

But it really does look like the human race is going to get homogenized, and everyone will be the same. I think it will be boring. But I won't be here. I am old.

I have enjoyed the company of other races, indulged in conversation with them, partied with them. Not all but some. One day that will no longer be possible.

T^T

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/25/2017 3:20:53 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Multicultursalism kills itself.

Say you like diverssity. You want everyone to interbreed, all races. To actually homogenize the human race. Well when you get done there are no racial or cultural differences. You will all be the same, like in those futuristic movies. I fact forget gender as well. There was a movie like that but I can't remember what it was.

Humans who want to perpetuate their heritage need to stay separate. At least not mate with one another. When I see guy with that really black skin, I mean almost blue, I have to respect his family a little it for maintaining that. Just like families with white skin staying white.

But it really does look like the human race is going to get homogenized, and everyone will be the same. I think it will be boring. But I won't be here. I am old.

I have enjoyed the company of other races, indulged in conversation with them, partied with them. Not all but some. One day that will no longer be possible.

T^T

The oldest human species DNA was 400,000 years old, found in a cave in Spain. (He had a drivers license with the DOB on it) The trend in human anthropological history has been toward diversity. Evolution by natural selection is driven by diversification. Homogeneity, as you describe it, would require an astonishing amount of time; it would violate the laws of Darwin's theory and; it would piss off a lot of White Supremacists who live in fear of the coming of the mud people.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/25/2017 5:27:43 PM

longwayhome

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You really have to describe what you mean by multiculturalism and what you either like or dislike about it.

I've always found debates on the subject in the UK fairly sterile. Some people use the term to indicate many people of different cultures living alongside each other but retaining their own cultures. Those who are positive about that say that people living alongside each other peacefully isn't a problem as long as their is respect and no discrimination in terms of housing, employment etc. Others get hot under the collar because they claim that people should integrate to maintain a true community.

Here's the rub though. People living in a community sometimes integrate and mix well and sometimes don't and it isn't necessarily to do with whether they are immigrants or not. In the UK we have many different white cultures who sometimes mix and sometimes don't and we are talking about groups who have been identifiable around for hundreds of years.

I've lived and worked all round the UK and found places where I fitted in immediately despite being hundreds of miles from home and other places where it was very pleasant but breaking into people's social circles was impossible for an outsider. I've experienced people taking a very stereotypical view of my temperament based on my identity based on where I was born and the accent I have, but I have also experienced people responding instantly to friendship and openness.

Despite some of the debates about national self-determination (e.g. independence for Scotland or Wales) nobody is seriously suggesting that white people get out of various parts of the country where they "don't belong", although some are quite happy to judge and include or exclude people from their social networks based on their "background". It can be subtle or not so subtle. There are rural communities where outsiders are treated as guests and potential friends from the outset and communities where people are polite but permanently distant from people from other parts of the country. Try and be Glaswegian and get away from being asked what football team you support when you speak to people for whom your religious (and cultural) background really matters and spot how quickly friendly conversation stops when you give the "wrong" answer.

The point is that these discussions are often about race and prejudice, pure and simple, no matter how carefully they are wrapped up in discussions about community cohesion.

Who cares if people of different races and cultures coexist peacefully but often don't mix particularly socially? There is no evidence that people coming into the UK don't respect British laws or culture any more than Welsh people who move to Scotland, fly a flag with dragons on it and support the Welsh rugby team.

Even if we talk about contributions, EU immigrants to the UK contribute more on average to the public purse than UK citizens do on average, yet you hear complaints about Poles not integrating properly. Recent refugees contribute less, but are actually prevented from working in many cases.

Incomers do mix. Their children go to the same schools. They share the same public space. They work alongside each other in hospitals, supermarkets and accountancy firms. There are issues about public infrastructure but given the tax immigrants pay that is a failure of government not of multiculturalism.

I love the fact that I live in a country alongside so many different people. The same as many people, I do not live in the same part of the UK where I grew up so I have no choice. The people I live alongside are not the same as me. We have music, food, high culture, media and skills in this country we wouldn't have without immigration. I have more in common in many ways with Asians from my city of birth than white people where I live.

Much of the mixing of peoples in the UK and many countries is happening as indigenous populations move between rural areas and city by choice or to find employment. Some of that movement is "white" British people, some not white and some of them come from overseas.

Those trying to "preserve" their communities are fighting a losing battle. If your community is successful, there will be incomers. If not people will leave and the community may feel stranded or forgotten. Either way, it will not stay the same.

One thing is sure - "multiculturalism", however you define it, is not to blame.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/25/2017 6:36:15 PM

thompsonx

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If you believe this shit why do you live in oz? Your white christian ancestors invaded the island and sought to impose your culture on the native inhabitants
Isn't it about time you got the phoque out and stopped being such a nuisance?

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/26/2017 5:35:17 AM

vincentML

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quote:

You really have to describe what you mean by multiculturalism and what you either like or dislike about it.

Longway . . . .

sharing your experiences is commendable but you need only look at the title of the thread and the name of the poster to realize he is not interested in a serious discussion; he is seeking validation for his own twisted white supremacy sickfuck ideology. A troll is a troll is a troll . . .

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/26/2017 1:04:06 PM

longwayhome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

You really have to describe what you mean by multiculturalism and what you either like or dislike about it.

Longway . . . .

sharing your experiences is commendable but you need only look at the title of the thread and the name of the poster to realize he is not interested in a serious discussion; he is seeking validation for his own twisted white supremacy sickfuck ideology. A troll is a troll is a troll . . .

I know this but yet but sometimes I can't help myself. I'm sick of all this criticism of multiculturalism by people for whom it is thinly veiled racism or cultural prejudice.

Just expressing these thoughts is sometimes worth it, even if you have no real chance of any meaningful debate.

Contrary to the belief amongst the intolerant populist right wing, the world is not ruled by left wingers who stifle their beliefs and desires. We are at a crossroads and people need to stand up and be counted.

I don't want to live in a community of fear and hatred because I know where it leads. The people jumping on this bandwagon have no imagination or historical perspective - or they just like the idea of the fear, violence and misery that will result. What mythical utopian past are they trying to get us to embrace?

Either way I'm not signing up.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/26/2017 1:14:01 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

I know this but yet but sometimes I can't help myself. I'm sick of all this criticism of multiculturalism by people for whom it is thinly veiled racism or cultural prejudice.

]

It *is* thinly veiled racism and cultural prejudice. There is an assumption that because one is white, Christian and has his first language as English, all is fine and dandy. But if that were to mean I were to be living next door to some obnoxious, right wing racist of an Aussie? Not a chance. Give me the quiet, polite Muslim, every time.

To be clear: I understand and accept that repulsive white, ultra-right-wing racists have a right to live in my country. I just hope and plan that they live in a place where I don't live, that's all. I don't like them; they're not my sort of people, because they lack my culture. Simple, really.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/26/2017 1:18:50 PM

longwayhome

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Can't argue with that Peon.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/26/2017 7:27:40 PM

Termyn8or

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quote:

It *is* thinly veiled racism and cultural prejudice.

How the hell can you know that ? You read minds ?

T^T

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/27/2017 7:26:08 AM

Greta75

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FR
Although I live in a multi-cultural country but we have a different history.

America for example, or Australia, started off with one race. Unfortunately with the Americans, it was the Native Americans. And with the Australians, it was the Aboriginals.

White people came and slaughter off all these people and stole their country. It sucks. But it was one race took over another race.

For my country, original race is Malay. Then Chinese and Indian and Caucasians invaded.

But no race tried to be dominant with each other. Kinda just let each other be. I guess it's the way we came into the country, more like traders, and not like warriors coming to conquer land.

But it is what it is.

Just like now poor Persia is now Iran and is overtaken by Muslims. So it's Muslim territory now.

But end of the day. I think our Singapore identity from the birth of Singapore is all about the unique way, we felt having all these different cultures was a normal way of life.

With other countries though.

Like, if you choose to live in Saudi Arabia, you live by Saudi Rules right?

So if you choose to live in Australia, gotta live by Australian rules.

IF you choose to live in the US, gotta live by USA rules.

Every country should preserve their unique identity and not cater to different cultures. Expect assimilation into their own culture.

No matter how multi-cultural we are, but we have Singaporean culture. So whenever a foreigner comes to Singapore and wants us to change our culture to suit them. WE will also tell them to leave the country and they are not welcome here.

But in our case, it's for example, we love curry. Then you got Filipinos or China Folks get mad at Indians making Curries in their homes. We would defend those Indians right to make that curry to the very end. To the foreigners, the smell is foul. To us, it's heaven!

It's almost like, Curry does not exist in China. But Curry is a Chinese dish in Singapore. We have Chinese Curry. And it taste amazing! Better than Indian curry!

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/27/2017 7:37:47 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

It *is* thinly veiled racism and cultural prejudice.

How the hell can you know that ? You read minds ?

T^T

It is called critical reading , Termy, occasionally offered as part of the curricula in American public schools.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/27/2017 8:37:33 PM

longwayhome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

[Edited]

But in our case, it's for example, we love curry. Then you got Filipinos or China Folks get mad at Indians making Curries in their homes. We would defend those Indians right to make that curry to the very end. To the foreigners, the smell is foul. To us, it's heaven!

It's almost like, Curry does not exist in China. But Curry is a Chinese dish in Singapore. We have Chinese Curry. And it taste amazing! Better than Indian curry!

Curry (kari) is just a Tamil word meaning sauce. The word "curry" was pretty much popularised by the British in India and then taken to South East Asia and transplanted there, especially in Malaysia (and Singapore) along with an Indian minority the British saw as being loyal. What the British called curry, the Indians just called food.

I'm glad you like something that is there largely as a result of people coming in and changing your culture and your way of life. It's just as well that nothing has changed as a result of immigration (or invasion as it really was). So much for unique identity.

Just wondering what your issue is with Filipinos? They make some interesting curries and some interesting smells when cooking outside. l always loved it, except the way they diced a chicken, bones and all.

So tell me - how long do people have to live in a country before it is belongs to them and they belong to it?

You seem quite comfortable with the Chinese and Indians in Singapore but you have a problem with the Muslims in Persia. Care to hazard a guess at how long ago Persia became Muslim?

I'm off to complain about the Celtic incomers in Britain. If you can't trace your heritage in a country back over 3000 years you can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. What right had they to change anything?

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/27/2017 9:36:32 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I'm glad you like something that is there largely as a result of people coming in and changing your culture and your way of life. It's just as well that nothing has changed as a result of immigration (or invasion as it really was). So much for unique identity.

Indian didn't change our culture. Indian CHANGED the Malay culture. I am Chinese remember? We aren't the native of Singapore. When I live in Singapore, I abide by SINGAPORE'S culture. Not China's Culture. My WHOLE point is, that, you abide by the culture OF the country you go to IF you choose to live there.

quote:

Just wondering what your issue is with Filipinos? They make some interesting curries and some interesting smells when cooking outside. l always loved it, except the way they diced a chicken, bones and all.

To my knowledge Filipinos traditional food has no curry. Filipino food isn't about being spicy. And I grew up with more than 10 different Filipinos maids, so I was practically brought up by Filipinos. They were my replacement mom. And if you don't know what Filipinos maid do here, they take over mom duties from the moment we leave our mom's womb, live with us 24/7 and take us to school, take us home, make all our meals, help us with our homework(many of them speak perfect English and have Bachelor Degrees, but their home country at that time paid a doctor lower than a maid in Singapore), basically, DO EVERYTHING a stay at home mom does, so that the "actual mom" can focus on her career and doesn't even have to ever come home and have any physical contact with her kid.

I have no issue with Filipinos as a whole, they loved me and treated me as their own child, only the ones that come here to work and want to CHANGE OUR CULTURE, THEY complain about the Indians making curries in their homes.

quote:

So tell me - how long do people have to live in a country before it is belongs to them and they belong to it?

Actually when I look at who the country belongs to. It would be it's first inhabitants. But many "first inhabitants" got "conquered" and their country got taken over. So too bad for them, then the "conquerers" who is the dominant RACE will dictate the culture until someone else take them over again.

quote:

You seem quite comfortable with the Chinese and Indians in Singapore but you have a problem with the Muslims in Persia. Care to hazard a guess at how long ago Persia became Muslim?

As I explain to you in another Thread. Indians in Singapore are seldom Muslims. They are mostly Christians or Hindu or Sikh. So I have no problems with Non-Muslims. If a Chinese dude was a Muslim. I will condemn him.

And by the way, the "this curry meaning ANY KIND OF sauce" is sooo bullshit. So you mean Indians call their "Cucumber Yogurt Sauce" and their "Mint Sauce" Curry too? Oh please!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/27/2017 9:52:28 PM >

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/28/2017 1:55:55 AM

tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

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Multicultursalism kills itself.

You couldn't be more incorrect if you tried.

There are innumerable examples of successful multicultural societies across the globe. Practically every major international city (eg London Paris NYC Sydney Berlin etc ...) is multicultural. Contrary to the sentiments expressed in the OP, multiculturalism is very much alive and thriving in Australia, which is possibly the world's most successful multicultural society and definitely one of the most successful. There are no signs of our MC Australian society killing itself at all as RM would have you believe - indeed all the indicators are opposite, Australia is thriving, one of the freest, safest, most diverse and prosperous places on the planet.

There are extensive benefits and advantages available to those who live in multicultural (MC) societies compared to monocultural societies. For example most Sydney residents appreciate the fantastic range of food and cuisines available to them. The integration of children from all backgrounds through education is a very effective barrier against propagation of hate and bigotry. MC allows its residents to pick the best elements from other cultures while maintaining the best from their own.

One of the great myths of this discussion is the perspective that insists MC is a superfluous artefact imposed on an otherwise monocultural society by so-called 'elites', that MC is a disruption to the normal 'natural' state of affairs which is gratuitously (and incorrectly) assumed to be monocultural. Countries such as Australia Canada and the USA have always been populated by a huge variety of people of all backgrounds. Perhaps the Lord knows how many races went into the make up of your average Brit over the centuries but no one else does.

The 'natural' state of such societies is MC. MC is a mirror, an insight into how these societies actually are and for the most part, have always been. Any assault on "traditional community values" in MC societies is necessarily an assault on MC values not the monocultural values those who propagate this mischievous claim assume it to be.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/28/2017 2:06:22 AM >

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/30/2017 5:05:38 AM

Awareness

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ORIGINAL: respectmen

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Well largely, it's ignored the fact that some cultures are genocidal, backward and racist.

And yet still we're letting Muslims build their exclusionary Jew-hating communities.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/30/2017 10:52:42 PM

longwayhome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I'm glad you like something that is there largely as a result of people coming in and changing your culture and your way of life. It's just as well that nothing has changed as a result of immigration (or invasion as it really was). So much for unique identity.

Indian didn't change our culture. Indian CHANGED the Malay culture. I am Chinese remember? We aren't the native of Singapore. When I live in Singapore, I abide by SINGAPORE'S culture. Not China's Culture. My WHOLE point is, that, you abide by the culture OF the country you go to IF you choose to live there.

quote:

Just wondering what your issue is with Filipinos? They make some interesting curries and some interesting smells when cooking outside. l always loved it, except the way they diced a chicken, bones and all.

To my knowledge Filipinos traditional food has no curry. Filipino food isn't about being spicy. And I grew up with more than 10 different Filipinos maids, so I was practically brought up by Filipinos. They were my replacement mom. And if you don't know what Filipinos maid do here, they take over mom duties from the moment we leave our mom's womb, live with us 24/7 and take us to school, take us home, make all our meals, help us with our homework(many of them speak perfect English and have Bachelor Degrees, but their home country at that time paid a doctor lower than a maid in Singapore), basically, DO EVERYTHING a stay at home mom does, so that the "actual mom" can focus on her career and doesn't even have to ever come home and have any physical contact with her kid.

I have no issue with Filipinos as a whole, they loved me and treated me as their own child, only the ones that come here to work and want to CHANGE OUR CULTURE, THEY complain about the Indians making curries in their homes.

quote:

So tell me - how long do people have to live in a country before it is belongs to them and they belong to it?

Actually when I look at who the country belongs to. It would be it's first inhabitants. But many "first inhabitants" got "conquered" and their country got taken over. So too bad for them, then the "conquerers" who is the dominant RACE will dictate the culture until someone else take them over again.

quote:

You seem quite comfortable with the Chinese and Indians in Singapore but you have a problem with the Muslims in Persia. Care to hazard a guess at how long ago Persia became Muslim?

As I explain to you in another Thread. Indians in Singapore are seldom Muslims. They are mostly Christians or Hindu or Sikh. So I have no problems with Non-Muslims. If a Chinese dude was a Muslim. I will condemn him.

And by the way, the "this curry meaning ANY KIND OF sauce" is sooo bullshit. So you mean Indians call their "Cucumber Yogurt Sauce" and their "Mint Sauce" Curry too? Oh please!

I'm going to have to try not to respond to these sort of posts when you make them Greta, because it just starts to look as if I am picking on you, when in fact I just disagree with you.

Let's just say that there are a number of factual inaccuracies in what you have just said, such as the etymology of the word curry and Filipino cuisine. Please just use Google if you doubt what I say. I have just done the same to check that the information is there. "Wikipedia" and "curry" are the only two words you need as search terms. Needless to say my knowledge of Filipino and Singaporean cuisine doesn't come from Google. You might have guessed that from my post.

I'm very glad for you that you had Filipino servants and that you liked the obedient ones - well the ones that don't complain about the smell of curry anyway.

You have frequently and strongly made points about Singaporean culture. Singapore is certainly a multicultural society with a number of languages, religions and races. I'm very well aware of the racial and ethnic mix of your country. You make many points about people abiding by Singapore's culture but you like to pick and choose which cultures you like, and are very vocal about the ones you don't.

Around 15% of your population is Muslim. (I know that this figure changes depending on whether you are talking about nationals and residents, but let's just say that it is a significant minority.) These people are not recent immigrants. Malay Muslims are now a smaller part of your society as a result of immigration but before Western intervention they formed the majority of the inhabitants of the island.

So Muslims and Islam have been woven into the culture of Singapore since its inception. Muslim culture has a far longer history where you live than it does in Europe. Yet you hate Muslims with a passion despite "defending" Singaporean culture.

So you are part of a culture that has moved into the territory occupied by a different culture, and now you out-number the original inhabitants. The terrible and sad irony is that you have such a jaundiced view of immigration changing indigenous culture, despite coming from an immigrant group who did just that.

Seen in the context of your own country's history and demography, your prejudice against Muslims, coupled with your very conditional acceptance of the other races/cultures which inhabit your country, looks quite dark and sinister.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 4/30/2017 11:20:28 PM

Dvr22999874

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Surely greta, the Brits were the first to COMPLETELY change Singapore when they found the place and it was a completely empty island, which they set up as a trading centre, way back in the 18th century I believe. But anyway, I have to agree with Longway, a change is made every time any immigrant enters a country and introduces some of his old country's habits, clothes, food, language, slang or whatever. It might only be a very small, barely noticeable change, but it is a change nonetheless.

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RE: What’s Gone Wrong With Australian Multiculturalism - 5/1/2017 12:37:25 AM

longwayhome

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There was a small fixed population of Malay and some (mainly Malay) traders with a handful of Chinese but in practical terms you are right, compared to the city that is there now, the island was virtually empty, as it was very sparsely populated by a few thousand people, if that. Singapore has certainly been a melting pot of different cultures since then so your statement about every immigrant bringing a change seems quite apt.

Greta of course is actually complaining about the non-Chinese minority communities in her own country when the Chinese were themselves immigrants. It just seems a bit mixed up to me.

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