Is this Bait and Switch?

Is this Bait and Switch? (Full Version)

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seekingOwnertoo -> Is this Bait and Switch? (6/10/2017 8:01:57 PM)
Well its time to post a question; to see what others think. So here we go … I first met a woman in my area, about 12 years ago. We share a taste for fine dining, and she says she is a Domme. Most recently, last fall, we went out several times, and those dates averaged $300; without any happy endings. Our last interaction was December 23, 2016 (dang smart phones!) lol That said, I have always known she was a Pro Domme and attempting to incorporate some Fin Domme. But all we ever have done is go to great dinners and converse, with no sex or BDSM interaction. So Monday this past week I get an email from her. She wants me to take her to dinner, then submit to her as a sub for her sexual pleasure. I did not immediately agree; instead mentioning all of my reservations, concerns etc. She kept countering … finally reminding me that subs serve for the Dommes pleasure … so I agreed to do it. Of course, she expected me to pick her up at her home, and then take her to a great steakhouse that would cost me at least three hundred. The new twist to this date was she added desert. So I presumed she just needed someone familiar and comfortable; and agreed on the night before the date. This past Friday, two hours before I picked her up … she texted me that she expected me to bring an envelope with a card containing a wonderful surprise. Obviously, she meant cash. I exploded, feeling I was a victim of bait and switch. Immediately I sent a text cancelling everything. I knew I would not even interact with her at dinner because I felt totally deceived. Nonetheless, I knew she would send a fire storm response, so I just shut the phone off and tossed it in the bag with my laptop then went home. This morning, when I turned the phone on … 15 texts popped up… the last saying that “I think I am so good, that I don’t have to pay”. Huh? I didn’t initiate this contact, didn’t initiate conversation about sexual, nor say I would give her ANY MONEY! My response was instant. Delete her number and all the texts from my phone, then block her from all email contact … but what do you think? Was I obligated to take her out, have sex that evening, and give her money, too? And why would someone think I would give her money AFTER we made a date? Please share …

MsLadySue -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/11/2017 12:16:03 AM)
She sounds like a greedy, narcissist. You did the right thing by calling it off and blocking her. Kudos, she got exactly what she deserved. Sounds like bait and switch to me.

LadyPact -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/11/2017 5:04:28 AM)
When people ask questions about bait and switch, I have to admit that I revert back to the old definition that I originally came up in kink with. That being, somebody who feigns interest in kink long enough to get another person interested in a relationship (that's the bait) then revert back to their actual vanilla preferences once the relationship is established (the switch). Just for clarification, in this instance, I'm using the term kink as a catch all term for anything BDSM, D/s, fetishes, or anything that people put under the big umbrella of alternative ways to have fun. Coming from that general definition, I really wouldn't call it bait and switch. It just really, really sounds like the woman wanted to acquire you as a client, without spelling it out in certain terms. The woman obviously knew you were doing well in the disposable income department because when you were having dinner dates with her before, your average tab was a few hundred. If you're willing to pay that for one of the pleasures in life (expensive restaurants) there is at least a chance you'll pay for other types of pleasures, too. I could be wrong about this woman's motivations, but from what you've written here, it certainly seems she was just looking at you as client potential. If you were not interested in being her client, I probably do agree with your actions of blocking/deleting her number and email contacts.

WickedsDesire -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/11/2017 5:28:03 AM)
I tend to refer to those people as parasites. Gold digger is another common name and life is full of them. That is not a credible pro-domme. Is it a typical pro dom these days? Yes. But I am a bit lost in the fact you have known her for 12 years? Most recently, last fall, we went out several times, and those dates averaged $300; without any happy endings. Why did you go out sporadically over 12 years with her and why did you expect the possibility of a happy ending. Why did she suddenly change tact after 12 years? Perhaps she was short of rent money or all other avenues of income had dried up. As this all spanned 12 years, and you picked up the tab every time I can not agree it is bait and switch. As far as I can make out re all the info you were just a free mail ticket during her moment of boredom. I've never heard of anyone cultivating anyone over a 12 year period. 1-3 years yes, but almost never longer. I am thinking she was bored and you were simply a time filler and a bit of company for those bored/alone nights.

MissKatya -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/11/2017 11:26:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo Well its time to post a question; to see what others think. So here we go … I first met a woman in my area, about 12 years ago. We share a taste for fine dining, and she says she is a Domme. Most recently, last fall, we went out several times, and those dates averaged $300; without any happy endings. Our last interaction was December 23, 2016 (dang smart phones!) lol That said, I have always known she was a Pro Domme and attempting to incorporate some Fin Domme. But all we ever have done is go to great dinners and converse, with no sex or BDSM interaction. So Monday this past week I get an email from her. She wants me to take her to dinner, then submit to her as a sub for her sexual pleasure. I did not immediately agree; instead mentioning all of my reservations, concerns etc. She kept countering … finally reminding me that subs serve for the Dommes pleasure … so I agreed to do it. Of course, she expected me to pick her up at her home, and then take her to a great steakhouse that would cost me at least three hundred. The new twist to this date was she added desert. So I presumed she just needed someone familiar and comfortable; and agreed on the night before the date. This past Friday, two hours before I picked her up … she texted me that she expected me to bring an envelope with a card containing a wonderful surprise. Obviously, she meant cash. I exploded, feeling I was a victim of bait and switch. Immediately I sent a text cancelling everything. I knew I would not even interact with her at dinner because I felt totally deceived. Nonetheless, I knew she would send a fire storm response, so I just shut the phone off and tossed it in the bag with my laptop then went home. This morning, when I turned the phone on … 15 texts popped up… the last saying that “I think I am so good, that I don’t have to pay”. Huh? I didn’t initiate this contact, didn’t initiate conversation about sexual, nor say I would give her ANY MONEY! My response was instant. Delete her number and all the texts from my phone, then block her from all email contact … but what do you think? Was I obligated to take her out, have sex that evening, and give her money, too? And why would someone think I would give her money AFTER we made a date? Please share … I'm going to go with the rest of the gang here and say that her behavior is really classless and if I were you, I would have given her the old "go fuck yourself" and blocked her number. But I do have ask a question. You said that you knew this woman for 12 years. Did you ever have a business transaction with her in the past? A session or some sort of "pay for play" agreement? I only ask because it seems so out of the blue for someone to assume that a casual dinner is a session and then go bonkers on it. Or...she's just batshit crazy and you should run far, far away.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/11/2017 11:34:30 PM)
"Was I obligated to take her out, have sex that evening, and give her money, too?" * No, and blocking her was the smart thing to do if don't want to do business with her because she changes the price at the last minute. "And why would someone think I would give her money AFTER we made a date? Please share …" * Because you've already been paying for her company. Why wouldn't she think you would pay more for her sex? "Is this Bait and Switch?" * More like evolving contract terms. You were already in a 'pay for play' relationship with her, she was just trying to up the ante at the last minute. She wasn't "switching" anything. You were still gonna' get what you came for. It's just that the price had changed. A price change is not the definition of "bait and switch."

longwayhome -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 4:46:37 AM)
What RS said is a little harsh, but only a little. You probably should have seen the possibility that it was not just your sparkling wit that she saw in you, given your willingness to splash out quite large sums of money for her entertainment. She may well be very choosy about her "dates" and may not be in it just or even primarily for the money, however the next step for her was pay for play. She was touting for business when she contacted you and, as a business offer, you are entirely entitled to turn her down. You didn't break the arrangement, she changed the terms and flushed out how far you were prepared to go. Going through with it or not was your choice. You now know the price so you can make an informed decision.

heavyblinker -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 6:00:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo My response was instant. Delete her number and all the texts from my phone, then block her from all email contact … but what do you think? Was I obligated to take her out, have sex that evening, and give her money, too? And why would someone think I would give her money AFTER we made a date? Please share … Why would you ask this? You can do whatever you want... you're not a real slave. All of these types of vent threads really come down to 'he said she said', except she's not here to say anything... so it's impossible to say who is right and who is wrong. Is it possible she gave you certain signals that you just didn't pick up on? What did you think was going to happen if you kept taking her out and paying for expensive meals? Especially since you knew she was a pro/fin domme? I don't know what you talked about or if there was anything in those conversations that got you off, but how often do pros even have submissive friends of the opposite sex? Maybe she thought you understood, given you know what she is and what she wants for herself. If she's the type of domme who likes to have sex with her clients, then she is probably going to be pickier than the non-sex ones. This could be just a simple case of miscommunication where she thought she was being clear and you didn't get it... so if that was the case, telling her that she deceived you definitely wasn't the right way to handle everything. I don't think she was that great about it either, though.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 7:35:17 AM)
Well, you are entitled to do whatever you want, so I don't really understand why you need validation from people on the internet? But from the way I understood you, you have known her for 12 years and now she springs it on you? That is quite odd. Any particular reason?

ResidentSadist -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 11:01:09 AM)
seekingOwnertoo has been around for a while, no harm intended and I am sorry his date went to shit. That truly sucks that she turned out to be a shithead changing the price at the last minute like that. Did you think I was a little harsh because I didn't tip toe around or support the idea that their "date" was anything other than business? Obviously the rent was due so she called him for the rescue. She obviously needed money, she even raised her participation level and offered up sexual contact. Even then he was hesitant because he had "always known she was a Pro Domme and attempting to incorporate some Fin Domme" . . . so he knew it was just a cash deal. So I didn't burst his bubble or anything. That's why I didn't think I was being harsh. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome What RS said is a little harsh, but only a little. You probably should have seen the possibility that it was not just your sparkling wit that she saw in you, given your willingness to splash out quite large sums of money for her entertainment. She may well be very choosy about her "dates" and may not be in it just or even primarily for the money, however the next step for her was pay for play. She was touting for business when she contacted you and, as a business offer, you are entirely entitled to turn her down. You didn't break the arrangement, she changed the terms and flushed out how far you were prepared to go. Going through with it or not was your choice. You now know the price so you can make an informed decision.

LadyPact -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 12:21:51 PM)
It's kind of weird because there were a couple of things in the OP that other people saw differently than me. I didn't get the vibe that other people about so2 had known the woman for twelve years. Even in CM's time before Fet, there used to be a number of legitimate pros that had accounts here. (When I say legitimate, I mean the type that were on LadyC, MrB, Hb's, and that kind of level.) It's not like pros don't ever just have friendly conversations with other people based on something in common. Over the years, I couldn't say how many times one person or another has recommended a restaurant, a shop I might like, or something else that started a conversation. Maybe this happens to me because we've moved around so much over the years, but it can happen just because somebody notices you in their neighborhood. I think so2 would have to clarify, but I also didn't think the dinner dates were going on for twelve years. I thought it was just last fall and then ended in December. Was I wrong about that?

longwayhome -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 12:34:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist seekingOwnertoo has been around for a while, no harm intended and I am sorry his date went to shit. That truly sucks that she turned out to be a shithead changing the price at the last minute like that. Did you think I was a little harsh because I didn't tip toe around or support the idea that their "date" was anything other than business? Obviously the rent was due so she called him for the rescue. She obviously needed money, she even raised her participation level and offered up sexual contact. Even then he was hesitant because he had "always known she was a Pro Domme and attempting to incorporate some Fin Domme" . . . so he knew it was just a cash deal. So I didn't burst his bubble or anything. That's why I didn't think I was being harsh. quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome What RS said is a little harsh, but only a little. You probably should have seen the possibility that it was not just your sparkling wit that she saw in you, given your willingness to splash out quite large sums of money for her entertainment. She may well be very choosy about her "dates" and may not be in it just or even primarily for the money, however the next step for her was pay for play. She was touting for business when she contacted you and, as a business offer, you are entirely entitled to turn her down. You didn't break the arrangement, she changed the terms and flushed out how far you were prepared to go. Going through with it or not was your choice. You now know the price so you can make an informed decision. You're probably right. Although I'm not Welsh, I live in Wales these days where people tend to be very careful about direct criticism of potentially emotionally upsetting stuff like this, and it wears off on you eventually. You were just telling it straight - in Wales we tend to go the long way first to say the same things. Not so much sugar coating as taking a long run up.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 1:37:21 PM)
I thought the dinner dates were new as of last fall too. But looking back at it, in mentioning how they met 12 years ago, he said, "we share a taste for fine dining." Then he mentions last fall and $300 dinner dates. Maybe cheaper dinner dates started 12 years ago but last fall they started costing $300? Looking at this from his side, I see how the 12 year factor could and probably should hold weight differently for him than it would for me from an outside perspective. My perspectives are jaded anyway and I don't hold the same boundaries as the social majority. Casual sex popping up for the first time as a matter of convenience between old friends because you both just happen to be single at the same time . . . or a casual and friendly business exchange like described in the OP wouldn't necessarily hold any special emotional value to me. No expectations emotionally... but... I am jaded, most of you are not. From that perspective, I can see how after 12 years, a recent series of expensive dinner dates and then a sex date, with him serving as her submissive... well it could imply something more than business. Especially since the date originally was only supposed to cost the dinner, like it always had, as is customary for the man to buy the woman dinner. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact It's kind of weird because there were a couple of things in the OP that other people saw differently than me. I didn't get the vibe that other people about so2 had known the woman for twelve years. Even in CM's time before Fet, there used to be a number of legitimate pros that had accounts here. (When I say legitimate, I mean the type that were on LadyC, MrB, Hb's, and that kind of level.) It's not like pros don't ever just have friendly conversations with other people based on something in common. Over the years, I couldn't say how many times one person or another has recommended a restaurant, a shop I might like, or something else that started a conversation. Maybe this happens to me because we've moved around so much over the years, but it can happen just because somebody notices you in their neighborhood. I think so2 would have to clarify, but I also didn't think the dinner dates were going on for twelve years. I thought it was just last fall and then ended in December. Was I wrong about that?

longwayhome -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 4:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Looking at this from his side, I see how the 12 year factor could and probably should hold weight differently for him than it would for me from an outside perspective. My perspectives are jaded anyway and I don't hold the same boundaries as the social majority. Casual sex popping up for the first time as a matter of convenience between old friends because you both just happen to be single at the same time . . . or a casual and friendly business exchange like described in the OP wouldn't necessarily hold any special emotional value to me. No expectations emotionally... but... I am jaded, most of you are not. Edited I don't think that is jaded at all. It's just emotionally honest and non-judgemental. I can't see anything wrong with sex between friends who are single or a "casual and friendly business exchange", and I don't see why people should feel emotionally compromised by either. The OP clearly sees what happened as some kind of emotional dishonesty which I responded to, however personally I might just say to the woman concerned that I wasn't up for the additional transaction without any drama or judging her for asking. How people choose to make a living is up to them, but whether I choose to enter into the further "business exchange" when it is offered is up to me.

NoirMetal -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/12/2017 10:00:21 PM)
She's sitting on a gold mine yanno. How do you think you gave her the impression that you are stupid?

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/13/2017 12:27:10 AM)
You do understand what "FinDomme" means, eh?

MistrssSinclaire -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/22/2017 2:26:19 PM)
you did the right thing. have no regrets. that woman was poison and seemingly only after your wallet. ;) unless she was a FinDomme, but even so, only always ever taking her out to dinner and paying the entire bill? I guess Im old fashioned in the FinDomme dept, where if it were Me, I would have incorporated play that was satisfactory to the customer/sub the first DAY after setting rules and boundaries of course and knowing the hard limits. but she seemed to just use you for her meal ticket and didnt incorporate ANY play or fetish fulfillment for you for 12 years? dont worry you will find someone who will GIVE to you as you give to Them, one day. hugs so sorry you went through that. its fake rude money grubbing Dommes like that, that make all us REAL Dommes look bad. tsk tsk shame on her. ~Miss S.

DocStrange -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/23/2017 3:48:11 PM)
I wanted to reply to this as I have been in this type of situation before more than once. First off, what she did was wrong. Without a doubt she abused her relationship with you in an attempt to get money from you for whatever reason. Similar to you, I have dated ProDommes in the past with the only intent in the relationship was dinner, conversation, and/or some minor shopping. I paid for the dinner, bottle of wine or two, desert and maybe a small shopping trip. No BDSM play what so ever. No hint of play. Just great conversation and a good night about and about. I think few on this thread will understand why a guy would do this, but it does happen. I can go into lengthy details why by that is not the point of this thread. Similar to you I have had people abuse that relationship. Usually they would be in some sort of financial trouble, rent due, drug addiction, unexpected expense of some sort, which of course they do not disclose to you. I have had them ask for money with no play, I have had them ask for money with the expectation of play in addition to the normal routine. I think your response was appropriate. Being blindsided and abused is not fun, and just not right. My response would have been slightly different probably because I have seen this more than once. At the moment she wanted money for play, I would have changed the dynamic from her demanding to me setting the terms of what will happen. If I am going to pay for a service, it will be a service that I want and I will specify what type of scene and how it will play out. If you want to play out a scene your way, fine, I will indulge you, but not for money.

dreamlady -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (6/29/2017 3:58:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: longwayhome What RS said is a little harsh, but only a little. You probably should have seen the possibility that it was not just your sparkling wit that she saw in you, given your willingness to splash out quite large sums of money for her entertainment. She may well be very choosy about her "dates" and may not be in it just or even primarily for the money, however the next step for her was pay for play. She was touting for business when she contacted you and, as a business offer, you are entirely entitled to turn her down. You didn't break the arrangement, she changed the terms and flushed out how far you were prepared to go. Going through with it or not was your choice. You now know the price so you can make an informed decision. ^ What he said ^ ... which, my friend, leads me to further comment... quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Well, you are entitled to do whatever you want, so I don't really understand why you need validation from people on the internet? But from the way I understood you, you have known her for 12 years and now she springs it on you? That is quite odd. Any particular reason? ... that you got "friend"-zoned at some point within these past 12 years, then got bumped up into the candidate-under-possible-consideration "sub" zone. No doubt in her mind, you had "earned" this "privilege" and were supposed to be grateful for the "opportunity" to date her. I'm not defending her actions. Obviously, you find them offensive and lacking in class. Nevertheless, you were enjoying your lady friend's company ostensibly. And she, yours. Without splitting hairs about the particulars, roughly half of those $300 dinner tabs were spent on you. You see where this is going? You feel you made a wasted investment in money, in your personal resources. She feels you wasted her time and energy - wasted her personal resources (not to mention whatever she spent on getting herself dolled up fashionably in order to impress you) - which she could have spent on a more "promising" candidate for her attention and affections. Neither one of you got what you wanted out of this train wreck of a failed [D/s] relationship transaction, which is really the crux of the matter, and now any friendship you both had has been ruined. Better for this to have happened sooner than later is all I can say. [sm=ugh.gif] DreamLady

twistedarrow -> RE: Is this Bait and Switch? (7/14/2017 8:53:31 AM)
I think you handled it perfectly. She was way out of line and you called her on it. Move on and enjoy life.

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